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post #661 of 683 (permalink) Old 12-11-2015, 03:55 PM
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Okay folks, just a final check before ordering parts for my new system. The car has approx. 155k on it. I put approx. 70k on it. As far as I know, it has the original CATS on it. Because I'm not sure, but believe it must, I am going to replace them with the Magnaflow high flow cats, eliminating the 3rd cat and factory resonator, and installing the Magnaflow Xpipe resonator with the Trubendz mandrel tubing back to my existing Flowmaster 40's.

I would eliminate the cats altogether if I wasn't afraid of creating a rolling boom box.

After installing the system, if the drone hasn't improved enough, well, I guess it will be time to ditch the Flowmasters, or perhaps install a custom fabricated downturn in order to bring the tips further away from the rear bumper as the are on the factory mufflers.

Thanks for all of the help so far. I get so much wisdom from the shared experiences here.
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post #662 of 683 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 04:21 PM
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I now have my mandrel bent tubing exhaust kit, two Magnaflow universal CATS, and a Magnaflow resonator with built in xpipe, waiting for the muffler shop to fit me in for installation.

Here is my question. If I replace the OEM CATS on my 1995 4.6 with the Magnaflow, high flow CATS, am I likely to get a CEL after installation? If so, what is the next step? Mine is a California car, or what is otherwise known as OBDI

I understand on the 1996/97 cars there is a possibility of activating a PO 420 code.

Last edited by Tbird Bob; 02-10-2016 at 04:31 PM.
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post #663 of 683 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 04:44 PM
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Your car is OBDII, 4.6 cars are 50 state compliant, only 94/5 3.8 NAs were CA spec. There should be no codes thrown with the cats and rear o2s in place
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post #664 of 683 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 06:31 PM
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Your car is OBDII, 4.6 cars are 50 state compliant, only 94/5 3.8 NAs were CA spec. There should be no codes thrown with the cats and rear o2s in place
Thank you. I was confused about it because once when I had a check engine light I went to Sears for a free reading and they told me they only had a reader for OBDII. He wasn't able to connect it to my car.

Anyway, it is a relief to know I'm good to go on this. I can't wait to help my buddy Kermit the Ford more easily pass gas.
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post #665 of 683 (permalink) Old 02-10-2016, 07:15 PM
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Yeah most places just assume OBDII = 96+ so they won't connect unless you lie to them and say your car is a 96.
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post #666 of 683 (permalink) Old 02-26-2016, 05:43 PM
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Okay folks, just a final check before ordering parts for my new system. The car has approx. 155k on it. I put approx. 70k on it. As far as I know, it has the original CATS on it. Because I'm not sure, but believe it must, I am going to replace them with the Magnaflow high flow cats, eliminating the 3rd cat and factory resonator, and installing the Magnaflow Xpipe resonator with the Trubendz mandrel tubing back to my existing Flowmaster 40's.

I would eliminate the cats altogether if I wasn't afraid of creating a rolling boom box.

After installing the system, if the drone hasn't improved enough, well, I guess it will be time to ditch the Flowmasters, or perhaps install a custom fabricated downturn in order to bring the tips further away from the rear bumper as the are on the factory mufflers.

Thanks for all of the help so far. I get so much wisdom from the shared experiences here.
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I now have my mandrel bent tubing exhaust kit, two Magnaflow universal CATS, and a Magnaflow resonator with built in xpipe, waiting for the muffler shop to fit me in for installation.

Here is my question. If I replace the OEM CATS on my 1995 4.6 with the Magnaflow, high flow CATS, am I likely to get a CEL after installation? If so, what is the next step? Mine is a California car, or what is otherwise known as OBDI

I understand on the 1996/97 cars there is a possibility of activating a PO 420 code.
Well, I now have the exhaust system I thought would be just what I wanted. All of the above was installed two days ago. The drone is still there, but it is twice as bad. The magnaflow xpipe resonator can be felt mid cabin. My muffler guy told me it is basically a glass pack with an xpipe in it. My suspicion based upon what I've read in these forums, the Flowmaster mufflers are what needs to be eliminated in order to remove the drone. This system is very loud. Louder than I expected. I have the rolling boom box I feared.

Other than the drone, wow! I can really feel the increased torque, and unleashed hp. I don't want to defeat the wonderful new free flowing aspect of my true duals, with a restrictive factory muffler, so what's a poor guy to do? Would turbos delete some of the drone without decreasing torque and hp too much?

At least I can turn up the bass enough to drown out some drone, but I'd rather not use music as a bandaid.

Last edited by Tbird Bob; 02-26-2016 at 07:23 PM.
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post #667 of 683 (permalink) Old 02-26-2016, 05:53 PM
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post #668 of 683 (permalink) Old 02-29-2016, 08:30 AM
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I don't want to defeat the wonderful new free flowing aspect of my true duals, with a restrictive factory muffler, so what's a poor guy to do?
I would put a stock type muffler back on. With true duals, there is still a definite gain over stock. The Crown Vics are factory rated 14 HP higher with a true dual exhaust over a single.

Our CVPI has a nice mellow deep tone with the factory true duals (2") and H-pipe, no resonators. But it is definitely quiet, with excellent low end torque.

No way I could deal with drone on a 205 HP car. Since you stepped up in pipe size, might have a tough time eliminating drone.

Al

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post #669 of 683 (permalink) Old 02-29-2016, 12:33 PM
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Get rid of droan you have to extend the tip of the exhaust past the edge of the bumper cover so that it sticks out further than the under car.
Play with extending the exhaust outlet on your mufflers after installation to ensure you get the length you need to minimize it.
I've fixed many a droan this way by using various lengths of pipe to get the best result of appearance and sound
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post #670 of 683 (permalink) Old 02-29-2016, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
I would put a stock type muffler back on. With true duals, there is still a definite gain over stock. The Crown Vics are factory rated 14 HP higher with a true dual exhaust over a single.

Our CVPI has a nice mellow deep tone with the factory true duals (2") and H-pipe, no resonators. But it is definitely quiet, with excellent low end torque.

No way I could deal with drone on a 205 HP car. Since you stepped up in pipe size, might have a tough time eliminating drone.

Al
Terrific comment. Thanks. After talking with my muffler guy, I have more food for thought. He is suggesting a Magnaflow knock-off. The absorbing nature of the free flowing muffler would eliminate drone while retaining very good sound. The other option I'm considering is a muffler delete.

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Get rid of droan you have to extend the tip of the exhaust past the edge of the bumper cover so that it sticks out further than the under car.
Play with extending the exhaust outlet on your mufflers after installation to ensure you get the length you need to minimize it.
I've fixed many a droan this way by using various lengths of pipe to get the best result of appearance and sound
Richard, what is the furthest out past the bumper cover you had to go to successfully eliminate drone, and what types of mufflers were you dealing with? To my knowledge, only reflective styles like Flowmasters emit drone into the cabin. I've a lot to learn. Thanks.
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post #671 of 683 (permalink) Old 02-29-2016, 10:01 PM
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Terrific comment. Thanks. After talking with my muffler guy, I have more food for thought. He is suggesting a Magnaflow knock-off. The absorbing nature of the free flowing muffler would eliminate drone while retaining very good sound. The other option I'm considering is a muffler delete.

Richard, what is the furthest out past the bumper cover you had to go to successfully eliminate drone, and what types of mufflers were you dealing with? To my knowledge, only reflective styles like Flowmasters emit drone into the cabin. I've a lot to learn. Thanks.
Factory mufflers should never be used, see the image below, 1-5/8 diameter is BAD.

But I would definitely look at Magnaflows. I have used them successfully many times.

You do not have to have the tip actually past the bumper cover a lot. It depends on the angle of outlet too.
I often use a slash cut angle and put the tip of the angle near lower edge of the cover, sometimes it can be just flush with the line that would extend if you look from the side and follow the back of the bumper cover down. It also looks cleaner if the tip blends with the edge of cover.

Red car setup below was a V6 car and I cut the bumper cover underneath to achieve the look you see there.
Green car was no-muffler setup that was pretty tame inside the car.
Attached Images
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post #672 of 683 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 07:42 AM
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After talking with my muffler guy, I have more food for thought. He is suggesting a Magnaflow knock-off. The absorbing nature of the free flowing muffler would eliminate drone while retaining very good sound. The other option I'm considering is a muffler delete.
A straight thru muffler or no muffler is going to still be loud. There has got to be a quieter muffler option that still flows decent.

I have a question: how does the mandrel bent dual system fit around the factory brace in the center of the car? Or do you guys just remove that?

There is sure a creative kink in the factory exhaust to fit over that brace, to say the least!

Al

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post #673 of 683 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 04:17 PM
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A straight thru muffler or no muffler is going to still be loud. There has got to be a quieter muffler option that still flows decent.
Al
I agree with that comment: I originally used a single 3" diameter cherry bomb exhaust on my 5.0 tbird and it was far too loud (I tried recording it and the pops would trigger the audio squelch function on my camera).

I ended up adding a Flowmaster 40 which helped tremendously. Considering that the exhaust is not having to change directions to go through the various chambers inside, I don't think it impedes flow.

For reference, there's a pic of my exhaust system laid out in my garage so you can see the kinks Josh made for me below
Mandrel Exhaust Systems: 3.8/3.8SC/5.0 cat-less downpipes now available! My Review...

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I have a question: how does the mandrel bent dual system fit around the factory brace in the center of the car? Or do you guys just remove that?

There is sure a creative kink in the factory exhaust to fit over that brace, to say the least!
I'm not sure what "Brace" you are talking about. If you mean the hoop underneath the driveshaft, that's just to protect the occupants in case the driveshaft breaks (you don't want it to drop down, hit the ground at speed, and fly up through the car causing all sorts of carnage.

I'm only routing one exhaust pipe back there but it's 3" in diameter. From the transmission area, it follows the raised section of the 95 gas tank and then exits to the left (driver side) of the rear diff before going straight back. There is a slight kink there that Josh @ MES took into account in the tubing he shipped me
I expect that you would have something similar in a true dual setup, they go through the gastank hump and then exit on both sides of the diff (lower than the driveshaft hoop).

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post #674 of 683 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 04:31 PM
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I think you are talking about the little cross brace that is not the driveshaft loops or the main transmission brace. It's a small brace rearward of the main brace and bushing. My exhaust guy was cheap and he left that brace for me in the trunk. He could not get the 2.5" pipes high enough to get the brace back in. I think I rotated it 180 degrees it and added some washers to get it below the exhaust pipes and provide some support as opposed to leaving it off altogether.

You could get tricky here by welding up something that adds more support if so inclined.

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post #675 of 683 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 04:50 PM
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I don't know how well the 2.5" mandrels will fit but my current 2.25" duals fit with the brace with room to spare.

I just run the middle driveshaft loop, IMO that brace and the bottom brace we're talking about work together to strengthen that area of the floor pan, it's a much beefier cast iron than the thin tubular loop by the pinion( I tossed that one on mine, they weren't even installed on gen II marks from the factory)

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post #676 of 683 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 05:46 PM
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My 2.25" fit fine, I have JL's braces also.

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post #677 of 683 (permalink) Old 03-01-2016, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
A straight thru muffler or no muffler is going to still be loud. There has got to be a quieter muffler option that still flows decent.

I have a question: how does the mandrel bent dual system fit around the factory brace in the center of the car? Or do you guys just remove that?

There is sure a creative kink in the factory exhaust to fit over that brace, to say the least!

Al
There are no kinks anywhere in the tubing. You can see how the pipes fit nicely over the brace. Mine are 2 1/4". Perhaps a larger size would be a tight fit. The mandrel tubing kit runs from the resonator xpipe back to the mufflers. It all fit perfectly, and I'm very satisfied. I might even keep the Flowmaster 40s. The more I drive, the more I like the sound, and it does turn heads.

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post #678 of 683 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 10:31 AM
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A couple days ago I replaced the Flowmaster 40s with Magnaflow performance style knock-offs. I am very happy to be done with the drone.

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post #679 of 683 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 09:12 PM
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Congrats Bob, you ended up close to my all Magnaflow setup in 2-1/2" pipes. I lost a little flow adding the resonator instead of xpipe and high flow cats but with a Cobra intake and new exhaust in my 5.0 its still thrilling me at WOT.
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post #680 of 683 (permalink) Old 05-04-2016, 09:33 PM
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Congrats Bob, you ended up close to my all Magnaflow setup in 2-1/2" pipes. I lost a little flow adding the resonator instead of xpipe and high flow cats but with a Cobra intake and new exhaust in my 5.0 its still thrilling me at WOT.
Thinking back, the other thing I might have done is just eliminating all CATS. The reason I didn't is because I didn't want to possibly deal with CEL codes due to eliminating the sensors. Oh well, I'm with you; at WOT it is thrilling.

Now, if my car was strictly used for track, I would definitely have kept the Flowmasters. I do love the rumble at certain rpm, but the drone when pulling grades is something I would record and use as an interrogation tool. It might be worse than waterboarding.

My first mistake with my exhaust system was no understanding muffler types and their specific uses, benefits, drawbacks. Had I not been ignorant, I would have saved myself $300.00 which is what I paid 3 years ago when I went from OEM to the Flowmasters.
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post #681 of 683 (permalink) Old 05-05-2016, 09:23 AM
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It just boggles the mind the attraction to Flowmasters, like everyone with a performance car has to put them on. At least throw some quality Borla mufflers on there.

I had thoughts of making some exhaust changes to my 97. But even with no resonator it is whisper quiet, and I like it that way. My turbo car is loud, and one loud car is enough.

It is just that the stock dual 2" pipes into a single 2 3/8" pipe, back to dual 2" bugs me. Our CVPI has true 2" duals, no resonators, and an H-pipe. Nice low end torque, and a deep mellow cop car sound, but quiet on the hwy. I would love to have the same setup on my T-Bird, but the local exhaust shop that does mandrel bending would look at me funny if I asked for dual 2" mid-pipes! Low end torque is top priority for me.

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post #682 of 683 (permalink) Old 05-05-2016, 10:09 AM
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It just boggles the mind the attraction to Flowmasters, like everyone with a performance car has to put them on. At least throw some quality Borla mufflers on there.
The key with flowmaster 40s is mid mounting them ala SN95/Foxbodies(or any American car older than 1980 basically), that's what they were "tuned" for, but not all exhaust layouts are like that, especially now a days with a fuel tank where the mufflers would be, and nobody seems to comprehend that when they hear a truly good sounding foxbody with them. Having several feet of piping after the muffler outlet and to lesser extent having the tip pointed straight rather than turned down is key. They sound downright awful on these or any current "ponycar" where they essentially dump. Having a stickshift helps too, loud exhaust with auto shifting sounds lame

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post #683 of 683 (permalink) Old 05-05-2016, 08:02 PM
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Having a stickshift helps too, loud exhaust with auto shifting sounds lame
My auto in Lazarus is a manual, pretty much, lol.

It sounds great with 2.5" duals and a x-pipe, with $25 cheap oem size baffles on it.

I spent a long time on the shifts in the tune, before I put in the tranny with full-time lockup.

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