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post #1 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 09:36 AM Thread Starter
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In car video 93 SC 10.067 @ 139.65 w/ Engine damage pics

Took this video Friday when trying to get this car into the 9s. Still spinning the tires real bad coming off the line even with tire pressure lowered to 12.5 psi and good track prep. Broke something on the next pass so I'm probably done for the season.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...type=2&theater





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1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ

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post #2 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 09:50 AM
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Great video. I love the clouds in the sun roof - great view.

Congrats again. Sorry to hear you broke something. What do you think it was?

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
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post #3 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Great video. I love the clouds in the sun roof - great view.

Congrats again. Sorry to hear you broke something. What do you think it was?
Not sure, it might just be an ignition problem or it could be more serious. Started missing on the top end and was only running on about 5 or 6 cylinders by the end of the pass. Unfortunately I wasn't data logging the pass. Planning to pull the plugs and do a compression test later today and then I'll have a better idea of what happened.

David

1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ
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post #4 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 11:37 AM
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Well now we know that our sunroofs don't like 135+ speeds lol. Awesome car David, hope you didn't seriously damage anything

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post #5 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 06:44 PM
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Fun video...thanks for sharing! I hope whatever is wrong is an easy fix.


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post #6 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-03-2013, 08:15 PM
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Great video. I've watched it several times. Man that's quick.

Hope whatever happened is not too costly.

To be expected that things break when your car produces enough power to bend time.

I'll be watching for more...
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post #7 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-04-2013, 11:19 PM
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Nice Run.

95 SC 5-speed The Toy in Storage now.
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post #8 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-05-2013, 12:43 AM
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Nice job, you are so close to the 9's! Now that you broke it you can dump more go fast parts in her.

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post #9 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-05-2013, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmith181992 View Post
Well now we know that our sunroofs don't like 135+ speeds lol. Awesome car David, hope you didn't seriously damage anything
Yeah that's a bit unnerving to see. Good thing it takes my car a bit longer to get up to that speed

-Matt
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post #10 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-05-2013, 07:54 AM
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Considering how bad the car was missing..That was a pretty good run..

Yeah..Hopefully it's just an ignition issue-->>MSD Box

You got all winter to get the bugs worked out..Good luck with that..



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post #11 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-05-2013, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
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Well now we know that our sunroofs don't like 135+ speeds lol. Awesome car David, hope you didn't seriously damage anything
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Yeah that's a bit unnerving to see. Good thing it takes my car a bit longer to get up to that speed
Wow!

I hadn't noticed that until you guys mentioned it and I watched the video again.

Dave: You might want to look at that before you go any faster. You're about to blow that sunroof out.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto.
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post #12 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-05-2013, 08:51 AM
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This is just amazing. I'm completely brand new to everything but even I know that was a sick run. Good luck with whatever the problem is, I hope it's something simple.

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post #13 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-05-2013, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Considering how bad the car was missing..That was a pretty good run..

Yeah..Hopefully it's just an ignition issue-->>MSD Box

You got all winter to get the bugs worked out..Good luck with that..



Rayo..
It was running fine on this pass and the previous one, it was on the next pass where it started missing on the top end and stalled just before the return road turn off. Still ran a 10.5 so it wasn't hurt too bad. I've got a spare MSD ignition box, but I don't think it's the problem. I've got some help coming over Wednesday evening to make the trouble shooting go quicker. I'm sure I'll either have it fixed or will know what the problem is by Wednesday night.


David

1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ

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post #14 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-05-2013, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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Wow!

I hadn't noticed that until you guys mentioned it and I watched the video again.

Dave: You might want to look at that before you go any faster. You're about to blow that sunroof out.
Yeah it started getting real noisy in the car when that happened and I didn't know why until watching the video. Couldn't mess with the sun roof glass because I had the go pro mounted to it with a suction cup. Might have to add some black duct tape next time I race it.

David

1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ
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post #15 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-05-2013, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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This is the video where it broke. Sorry for it being so long. There was a problem with the scoreboard not being reset so I had to abort the initial launch, then after making the pass I lost my phone and couldn't shut off the camera. Eventually I found it in the backseat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRZgiW2lTHg



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post #16 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-12-2013, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Found the problem. Broken inner valve spring dampner on #4 intake got tangled with outer spring, retainer somehow partially released the valve and intake valve got hit by the piston and something smashed the spark plug end. Motor is coming out of the car to replace piston and do some valve train upgrades.

David

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post #17 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-13-2013, 12:26 AM
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Dang. Sorry to hear a valve dropped.

Wish you a "speedy" recovery.
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post #18 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-13-2013, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Dang. Sorry to hear a valve dropped.

Wish you a "speedy" recovery.
It didn't drop fully, but enough to do some damage. From what I can see through the scope the cylinder wall looks fine, so I'll probably just have to replace the piston.

I'd rather it be a mechanical problem like this than one of those ghost like intermittent electrical problems or something goofy with the tune. Truth is, these valve springs were not really up to handling the rpm I was running and they probably should have been replaced/upgraded years ago.

I'll be switching to a set of beehive style springs with lightweight retainers that should be stable at 6800. What I have now was probably only good to about 6300-6400 and I was revving the motor to 6800-6900 pretty routinely.

Considering the time it's going to take to repair and upgrade the heads, it probably won't be back together until Feb. That's okay because I've still got another SC and new GT500 to play with

David

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2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ
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post #19 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-13-2013, 02:42 PM
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post #20 of 52 (permalink) Old 11-13-2013, 06:12 PM
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Just crazy to see the sunroof lift in both videos and see the sky peek in. I would agree that the sunroof could go on a pass.

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post #21 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-10-2014, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Finally got motivated to pull the motor and see just how bad it was hurt. Big thanks to Chris Wise who came over to help me. It's worse than I imagined and since it's also got some damage to the cylinder wall it's going to get the full rebuild treatment with some upgrades. Here are some pictures of the mess.

























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2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ
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post #22 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-10-2014, 02:53 PM
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Ouch!

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post #23 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-10-2014, 03:44 PM
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Have you guys figured out what happened yet?

Broken Valve Spring?



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post #24 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-10-2014, 06:09 PM
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Have you guys figured out what happened yet?

Broken Valve Spring?



Rayo..
Found the problem. Broken inner valve spring dampner on #4 intake got tangled with outer spring, retainer somehow partially released the valve and intake valve got hit by the piston and something smashed the spark plug end.

These are highly engineered precision vehicles, the first step in diagnosing the problem is to strike the suspected offending part sharply and repeatedly with a blunt object, then re-test.
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post #25 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-10-2014, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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I was revving the motor too high for the springs and other valve train parts I had. Will be upgrading to better stuff when it goes back together.

David

1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ
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post #26 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 08:45 AM
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Wow, that's some nasty damage. It sucks when things come apart. Do you have any pictures of the springs?

How high were you revving it? What were the parts you had in there rated for and what are you going with on the new build?

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto.
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post #27 of 52 (permalink) Old 03-11-2014, 01:47 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, that's some nasty damage. It sucks when things come apart. Do you have any pictures of the springs?

How high were you revving it? What were the parts you had in there rated for and what are you going with on the new build?

This is the only spring picture I've got. The keepers holding the valve stem to the spring retainer came loose or failed and the stem of the valve is now flush with the top of the retainer.



Since the original engine builder bought bare AFR 205s and supplied the valves, retainers and springs...I don't really know what they are. The springs AFR would normally supply for a hydraulic roller cam like I'm using are rated to around 6500 with the cam I'm using. That said, I've heard from several sources that AFR uses cheap springs and valves and probably shouldn't be revved beyond 6300 rpm.

The springs had been shimmed by Steigimeir when he repaired them back in 2005, when I last damaged the motor. I just assumed if they weren't floating it was okay to keep inching up the rev limiter. For the past two years I've had the rev limiter set anywhere from 6800 to 7000 rpm and hit the limiter on a regular basis. I've probably been bouncing the valves off the seats for the last 3 or 4 years, and I'm lucky that it didn't fail sooner.

Not 100% decided on if I'll be keeping the same old school reverse pattern hydraulic roller cam or switching to a more aggressive solid roller cam for increased rpm. That will determine what springs I end up using. At a minimum, I'll be using the beehive style with something close to 6800 rpm capability.

Planning to drop the entire motor off at Dave Dalke's shop and start reviewing the options after he gets a look at the rest of the motor.

David

1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ

Last edited by David Neibert; 03-11-2014 at 02:01 PM.
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post #28 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-04-2014, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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Motor rebuild/upgrade is nearing completion. Here is a link to the photo album from Super Coupes Unlimited showing all the damage found and pics of the new stuff.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...6099734&type=1

David

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2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ
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post #29 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-08-2014, 10:41 PM
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Is that a stock suspension on that SC? Nice videos that car is very impressive, sorry to hear about the motor though.

97 Thunderbird LX 4.6 sohc, 60,000 original miles and lots of room for improvement.... All show and no go for now...
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post #30 of 52 (permalink) Old 08-28-2014, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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Is that a stock suspension on that SC? Nice videos that car is very impressive, sorry to hear about the motor though.
Yes...Mostly stock suspension, just has Volgtland 3/4" springs and a set of air bags. Thanks, motor was 10 years old, so it was time for some upgrades. Should be all back together and running by late November.

David

1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ
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