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post #1 of 176 (permalink) Old 09-14-2004, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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lets talk subs.....

lets face it.....when it comes to us younger-types looking for a "system", it usually means adding some subwoofers

i know a lot of you have notice i take a particular interest in discussing subs.....particularly my XXX, and about other 'super' subs

i know most don't have the full mathematical, nor physics inclination to fully understand it, but i am linking here a paper written by Dr. Wolfgang Klippel that discusses certain aspects of subwoofer performance, mainly distortion and sound quality and how they are intertwined

the other links lead to Adire Audio's website......they are the ones who created the XBL^2 motor topology that was first incarnated in the now famous Brahma Series, and then in the Resonant Engineering XXX series....this patented motor topology is directly derived from the empircal information collected by Dr. Klippel

http://www.klippel.de/pubs/aes2000/k...aper%20109.htm

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/XBL2TechPaper.pdf

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/XBL2DetailsPaper.pdf

another good link:

http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/Tech...ooferSpeed.pdf



fire away with any questions!
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post #2 of 176 (permalink) Old 09-14-2004, 08:19 PM
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This isn't a question, but rather a thanks for posting this. I guess I am just interested in this sort of thing, but haven't ever taken the time to look anything up. Not that I would have know who was a good source anyway. Again, Thanks.

Russell
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post #3 of 176 (permalink) Old 09-25-2004, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by BlingMeter
betteraudio.com uses the same technology.
true.....they were the 3rd company, i believe, to license XBL^2 technology from Adire......by now, i'd guess there'd be like 5-10, just not all publically known
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post #4 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-05-2004, 05:37 PM
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Volfenhag good or bad?

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post #5 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-06-2004, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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depends what you compare them to.........
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post #6 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-07-2004, 06:53 AM
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lets say pioneer 10s compaired to volfenhag 10s. the thing i hear about volfenhags is taht they hit hard and have a fair continuous bass but thats the only draw back is that they cant handle continuous bass

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post #7 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-07-2004, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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post #8 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-07-2004, 02:09 PM
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Guitar Maestro-

I really want superb sound quality, but STRONG and HARD HITTING SPL. I was planning on going with a single 12" XXX in a ported, but now i'm leaning towards TWO 12" IDMAX in a sealed enclosure. How would the two set-ups compare? The XXX would get 1500 watts rms, then IDMAXs would get 750 watts RMS each. Either way.....if it's close, would the 2 IDMAXs in a sealed still deliver completely solid bass?
Would they be louder than 2 12" MTX Thunder 8000's, well I know they would, but by how much?


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post #9 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-07-2004, 02:44 PM Thread Starter
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with those two setups, since power would be equal, they would probably be identical as long as the two IDMAXs are still operating linearly

how much louder they would be than the MTX depends how hard the MTX are being driven......if they are being driven outside their linear operating range and the IDMAXs are not, the difference could be as much as 2-3 dB.....but there are lots of variables
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post #10 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-07-2004, 07:01 PM
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the IDMAX's will sound good and be pretty loud, but if you look at your cost involved, you would be waaaaay ahead in money by getting an XXX. one XXX is very much the same price as a single IDMAX. also, Image Dynamics has very ****ty return times for their products if you toast one. this comes from a dealer where i used to go to school and also my friend that used to do SPL comps.

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post #11 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-27-2004, 08:38 AM
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Sub preference

If you want to bang out of your Bird, go with a Phonenix Gold Amp, zero gauge wire and Kicker 12 - 15in subs. You will deaf or brain damaged in no time at all.

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post #12 of 176 (permalink) Old 12-29-2004, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN12-Blackbird
If you want to bang out of your Bird, go with a Phonenix Gold Amp, zero gauge wire and Kicker 12 - 15in subs. You will deaf or brain damaged in no time at all.
but if you actually wanna hear somthing that resembles music get somthing else just messin with ya
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post #13 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-16-2005, 06:10 PM
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I think Orion first used XBL^2 technology if i'm not mistaken. Of course, it wasn't called that back then and they didn't get a patent.

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post #14 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-16-2005, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayls5
I think Orion first used XBL^2 technology if i'm not mistaken. Of course, it wasn't called that back then and they didn't get a patent.
the brahma was introduced much prior to the H2 with it's dual-gap design....when the brahma was first being introduced, even prior to its release, there was never any mention of Orion having used this type of topology beforehand.....unless i somehow missed it.....i followed the whole XBL^2 movement when it first came out, and don't recall a single time anyone had referred to Orion
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post #15 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-16-2005, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar maestro
the brahma was introduced much prior to the H2 with it's dual-gap design....when the brahma was first being introduced, even prior to its release, there was never any mention of Orion having used this type of topology beforehand.....unless i somehow missed it.....i followed the whole XBL^2 movement when it first came out, and don't recall a single time anyone had referred to Orion

Yea i've been in the game since the beginning as well. I'm going strictly on hear-say with that comment. My friend told me it a while back and i never bothered to research it.

I'm wondering how orion gets away with the dual gap design use.

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post #16 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-16-2005, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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oh ok i see....i seriously doubt it...reason is: a while back like 1.5-2 years ago, someone leaked out info that DEI was handed a lawsuit of some sort from Adire......u won't find the posts, since they were probably deleted, since it was supposed to be confidential information

Adire does believe it infringes their rights, even though i believe the patent to Adire has not been issued yet.......so DEI is not suing Adire, rather its the other way around.....if Orion had developed multiple-gap topology, i would have guess that Adire would be getting sued
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post #17 of 176 (permalink) Old 01-16-2005, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar maestro
oh ok i see....i seriously doubt it...reason is: a while back like 1.5-2 years ago, someone leaked out info that DEI was handed a lawsuit of some sort from Adire......u won't find the posts, since they were probably deleted, since it was supposed to be confidential information

Adire does believe it infringes their rights, even though i believe the patent to Adire has not been issued yet.......so DEI is not suing Adire, rather its the other way around.....if Orion had developed multiple-gap topology, i would have guess that Adire would be getting sued

The DEI lawsuit rings a bell but i can't seem to remember for sure lol.

Oh yea, it's "patent pending" still, haha

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post #18 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-07-2005, 07:26 AM
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You cant go wrong with 1 JL W7 Sub, just one made the whole shop i get my stuff installed at shake, one guy with an suv got 2, he came back and said his deck kept skipping, the owner laughed and told him, i told you 1 would be enough, so he had to lower the sub setting on his deck, and the damn things still pounded JL all the way!

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post #19 of 176 (permalink) Old 02-16-2005, 11:49 PM Thread Starter
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me from one of the threads:

"good god....

http://realmofexcursion.com/videos/R...ng/xmx12.1.wmv

its not the XMX....some dufus thougt it was...its the new un-named sub from RE going to war against the air infront of it....and air is loosing.....bad"

its just so awesome...lol

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post #20 of 176 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 09:56 PM
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i have 2 12' Rockford Punch Z subs in a box and a 400W Rockfors amp......does anyone know how it stack up in general as being good subs or not? they are the only subs i have had so i can't say that i liked them over some other brand....this sorts thing isn't my forte. only think i know is bigger subs with more watts = loud lol


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post #21 of 176 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 10:07 PM
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you dont need 2 subs or a big *** amp or high rated subs to sound good. i have a 12 audiobahn 400rms/800 peak sub in a self made ported box pushed by a sony xplod 1200 watt 2 channel amp. i made the box to the exact specs audibahn asked for, and wired it for maximum output. when ur inside teh car, you cant turn the volume up too loud because when u leave ull hear a rining in ur ears for hours. it hits so low u can feel ur bones rattle on the big hits. its all about the acoustics, what box, and how u place ur sub. u could buy a cheap dual sub from best buy with a cheap pioneer amp, wire it right, make a perfect box, and have it sound bad ***.
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post #22 of 176 (permalink) Old 05-11-2005, 10:10 PM
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i have 2 12' Rockford Punch Z subs in a box and a 400W Rockfors amp......does anyone know how it stack up in general as being good subs or not? they are the only subs i have had so i can't say that i liked them over some other brand....this sorts thing isn't my forte. only think i know is bigger subs with more watts = loud lol


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im almost sure that the amp u have isnt powerful enough to get the most out of ur speakers. buy another one of those amps and bridge them or get a more powerful amp, and im sure it will sound 100 times better
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post #23 of 176 (permalink) Old 05-12-2005, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackpriceisgod
im almost sure that the amp u have isnt powerful enough to get the most out of ur speakers. buy another one of those amps and bridge them or get a more powerful amp, and im sure it will sound 100 times better

whoa, whoa, whoa there buddy.......you dont even know if his Punch Z's are 4 ohm or 8 ohm, if his RF amp is 400W RMS, or peak.....2-channel or 4-channel........unless you already know the specifics of his particular equipment, your suggestion to "buy another amp and bridge them..." should be placed on a window ledge incase it has to be thrown out

he is how you begin to give good advice:

first you ask (if its not already known) how many subs are involved

then you ask what the impedance is of each sub, and whether or not they have multiple coils

then you ask how much power each sub can take continuously

.......how many channels the amplifier has

.......how much power the amplifier puts out to each channel at its lowest rated impedance

THEN, assuming you know the relationships between amplifier power output, voice coil configurations, you can start to give you're opinion as to what may be a better setup, and EXACTLY why it would be a better setup
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post #24 of 176 (permalink) Old 05-12-2005, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackpriceisgod
wire it right, make a perfect box, and have it sound bad ***.
First... How do you wire it the right way to allow it to reach it's max performance?

Second... What exactly does a perfect box need to reach that status?



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post #25 of 176 (permalink) Old 05-12-2005, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikman
First... How do you wire it the right way to allow it to reach it's max performance?
by knowing the relationships between amplifier output and voice coil impedance, and a particular amplifier's capabilities, a particular system can be optimized

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikman
Second... What exactly does a perfect box need to reach that status?

to make a Perfect box would require actually measuring the subwoofer's parameters which are used to calculate its performance........that is the relatively easy part....the hard part is deciding what size box and tuning to use......this is more of an art than it is a science, since it usually takes years of experience to really know what works for a particular combination of parameters

most people dont have the equip./software or know-how to do any of this, so people usually resort to pre-built boxes, and manufacturers recommendations in the owner's manuals, since those are usually compromised for overall generally good performance
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post #26 of 176 (permalink) Old 08-04-2005, 10:59 AM
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Question......Audiobahn, are they good or bad, i know their subs are popular, because they look nice, but how about quality??? I am noticing that several stores on ebay are selling a pair of 12" audiobahn subs for like $50.00 a pair?? Is this a good deal??

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post #27 of 176 (permalink) Old 08-23-2005, 07:08 PM
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I have two 10" MTX Audio subs, and a Pyramid 1000 Watt amp... it just doesn't seem to have much power... my brother's Taurus SHO with the Mach audio system sounds better... any suggestions as to how to make them sound better?

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post #28 of 176 (permalink) Old 08-23-2005, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
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well if they are not in a custom-built box, that would be one step that can be taken........Pyramid amps dont put out 1000W even if lightning stuck them......so getting a better amp is practically mandatory

how much are you willing to do to optimize what you have?
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post #29 of 176 (permalink) Old 10-02-2005, 06:37 PM
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if i was to suggest anything to any one about car audio its this, dont buy the name buy the product, there are some brands out there that just suck, ie sony, it consistenly puts out garbage. But there are some brands that dont get any real reconition cause they dont have the advertisement and whats nots, such brands, Mobile audio, clif designs, visonik (top of line stuff only). These brands arnt out ragesly expensive and will out preform, pioneer sony, jbl, any day. Amps make crappy subs sound decent, but a good amp with a good sub is something unbeleivable. I run a mono block ma 1800watt amp to 2 12in clif design compo subs. honestly is comparable to the sound of a jl w3 combo.
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post #30 of 176 (permalink) Old 10-02-2005, 11:13 PM
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I got it fixed... seems that some wires were mixed up between the cd player and the amp... it hits great now...

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