LOOK HERE IF YOU HAVE VOLTAGE-DROPS----70A -> 130A ALT SWAP FOR '89-'93 3.8s + BIG 3 - Page 2 - TCCoA Forums

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post #31 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-06-2005, 07:11 AM
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woah, you got smoke off the alternator? are your connections tight? double check your wiring and make sure all connections are tight, that's the only thing i can think of, and better yet, post up a picture of your wiring if you can.

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post #32 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-06-2005, 08:29 AM
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Nice write up. I love my 130 amp alternator on my car. I didn't have to have that plate to be able to mount the alt on. My mechanic simply ground down part of the alternator and some of the bracket for the pulley until the holes met up. Works great, and haven't had any troubles at all.


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post #33 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-06-2005, 09:09 AM
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Here's pix...
Wide shot Arrows to my alt, engine (alt casing) and ground.
Alternator You can see my alt. post mount and my engine/alt. casing mount. Gotta love the backwards alternator!!
Battery Not much to see 'cept a busy positive terminal.
Ground I'm gonna give that area a little more stripping, just to make sure.

The connections are all tight and clean.
I guess I went with the article and hooked the engine to ground instead of engine to negative like you had. I think I could rewire it and hook it to negative if need be. I'm gonna get out there in a bit and work on that ground with a wire brush and unplug my amp and see what happens. I just have nightmares about the car burning down in the middle of the night and taking my house with it.

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post #34 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-06-2005, 09:22 AM
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If you said the alternator was smoking, just hope that nothing happened to it. Not sure if it could have damaged the alternator. Now, when you are reffering to your amp, you mean for subs/speakers? If so, don't you have an inline fuse for the power wire leading to the amp? You could just pull the fuse rather than disconnecting the amp. But disregard this info if you don't have a fuse.


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post #35 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-06-2005, 11:43 AM
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Well, it just smoked due to the big spark. Not continually, if that means anything.
I just got back from stripping the ground spot better and hooked everything up and started the car. About 3 seconds after idle kicked in, I got another big spark at the alternator post. It was suggested in my other thread in General Tech that I need to get a voltmeter and go hunting for a electrons. LOL!
I know it's hard for you all to diagnose over the internet...I appreciate your help a lot!

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post #36 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-06-2005, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazed maniac
Nice write up. I love my 130 amp alternator on my car. I didn't have to have that plate to be able to mount the alt on. My mechanic simply ground down part of the alternator and some of the bracket for the pulley until the holes met up. Works great, and haven't had any troubles at all.
only prob with grinding on the alternator your warranty goes down the toilet, even as a core you would have probs, lol, i woulda just tried to grind down the bracket enough if i went with that route, and on a side note, be expecting something in the mail in a couple days. thanks.
Quote:
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Here's pix...
Wide shot Arrows to my alt, engine (alt casing) and ground.
Alternator You can see my alt. post mount and my engine/alt. casing mount. Gotta love the backwards alternator!!
Battery Not much to see 'cept a busy positive terminal.
Ground I'm gonna give that area a little more stripping, just to make sure.

The connections are all tight and clean.
I guess I went with the article and hooked the engine to ground instead of engine to negative like you had. I think I could rewire it and hook it to negative if need be. I'm gonna get out there in a bit and work on that ground with a wire brush and unplug my amp and see what happens. I just have nightmares about the car burning down in the middle of the night and taking my house with it.
nice engine compartment, i see you went with all black, sweet, but the only thing i can see that might be a prob is the alt supply might be a little to close to the casing, it could just be the angle of the pics, but if not, maybe you might wanna bend it out some and insulate it with tape or heatshrink. hope it works out for you bro, if only you were closer i'd go look at it in person.

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post #37 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 06:45 AM
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I didn't think of that...these are premade wires that were close enough on length for me to use without any problems...and yeah, all O'Reilly's had was black. I ran the wire pretty close to the casing bacause there was a path, and didn't realize that it might cause a problem. I'll try to work on that this evening.
I went by a local car audio shop yesterday to pick their brain on this. Didn't take the car but it's still easier to explain with your hands instead of on th net. He said that my positive side might be shorting out due to the old pos/alt wire making contact, or something similar. The alt side of it is off and out of the way, but the pos/batt side is still connected, making for a very busy positive side. Previously, I had four connections to the positive terminal, three being stock (the fourth was part of my intercooler setup). One is small and the other two are bigger. Is the biggest one the one that goes to the starter? If so, I'll just try to redo my whole positive side and see if I can't isolate it a lot better.

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post #38 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-07-2005, 07:00 AM
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i dunno, i still have the factory alt supply hooked up with the new one, it's not necessary to remove it since electricity takes the path with least resistance anyways, but try to look at the wires on the alt and see if any of them are close enough to short to ground.

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post #39 of 84 (permalink) Old 09-20-2006, 04:22 PM
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Is that upgraded alternator the same as the one used in this tech article for the 5.0L engines? (http://tccoa.com/articles/misc/130alt/index.html) I have one of these laying around and I was just curious since they seemed similar.
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post #40 of 84 (permalink) Old 09-25-2006, 02:46 PM
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Well since no one is helping I just did a side by side comparison and they look to be the same. The top pic is from the article, the bottom is from RedThunder

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post #41 of 84 (permalink) Old 09-25-2006, 05:40 PM
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wow, sorry i missed your post, lol, i'm not on as much as i used to be, and from your pics they do look almost the same, it may be the case, i guess it wouldn't hurt to try it, so let er rip and let us know if it works.

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post #42 of 84 (permalink) Old 09-25-2006, 06:14 PM
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Just wanted to say (and I'm not sure if I posted it before) that I found the source of my flickering problem. It was one of the small alternator wires...in order to install the AED kit, I had to flip the alternator, which led to making the wires longer. It turns out that my wire splicing job sucked. My brother and I stumbled across it and he said the splice didn't look good. I redid it and now all is good.

I can sure screw it up...

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post #43 of 84 (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 07:20 AM
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i cant believe i cant find info of a stock 97 alternator and upgrade options after 2 hours of searching
would some1 be kind enough to point me to the right direction?
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post #44 of 84 (permalink) Old 11-16-2006, 07:24 AM
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130amps is what a stock one is, did i manage to finally find the right info?
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post #45 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-28-2007, 01:36 AM
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where is negative chassis to engine???

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post #46 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 10:31 PM
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link in 1st post is broken

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post #47 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2007, 11:53 PM
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link in 1st post is broken
Link in first post is over 2 years old.

But if you go further down the thread the alternator info is covered in full detail.

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post #48 of 84 (permalink) Old 10-02-2008, 10:49 AM
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where is negative chassis to engine???
the wire from the chassis to the battery + wire from engine to battery = chassis to engine

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post #49 of 84 (permalink) Old 10-02-2008, 12:32 PM
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whoa, is this thread old, but your right about the chassis ground lol, i didn't see that question before.

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post #50 of 84 (permalink) Old 02-09-2009, 03:16 PM
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i know this is old as hell but i figured i'd post it here. maybe it'll help someone out.

my big 3:

Battery:


Battery Neg --> Chassis:



Battery Pos --> Alt Pos:


Battery Neg --> Engine (Alt Bracket):



Alt Pic:



NO, I DON'T HAVE ENGINE --> CHASSIS. I don't see a need for it.

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post #51 of 84 (permalink) Old 03-04-2009, 01:13 PM
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on the 89-93 harness, the one witht he two black/red wires, which one gets the ring terminal for the 94+ alt? i think im getting the pics confused :/
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post #52 of 84 (permalink) Old 03-27-2009, 01:10 AM
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its my unserstanding you dont use those 2 wires after this upgrade.
I think that are about a heavy 10ga. not quite and 8 ga. You run a "charging wire from the alt postive post directly to the battery instead.
I have an aftermarket alt and it had me cut those off and add a charging wire. I use a 1ga. chargeing wire. I cut those black with red stripe wires and heat shrunk the end and tucked it in the harness hidden.

heres the peice that says it - sort of

"here is the mod you have to do to the early alt harness to plug in the newer alt. you just cut the white with black stripe wire and install a small female spade terminal on the wire and plug it into the newer alt. you do not use the rest of this connector"

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post #53 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-18-2009, 03:22 PM
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This has yet to be covered and I really need some good input but where should the engine be grounded from on a 4.6???

So far all of the pics show 3.8's and now I'm jealous of their alternator mounts.

Us V8 guys don't have an easy way to add a ground from there to anywhere so I'm going a little stir crazy.

Maybe I can get by with just a new battery ground but I feel a little uncomfortable adding a new power wire from the alt. to the battery without adding an engine ground.

-Randy-
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post #54 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-18-2009, 03:47 PM
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*not too familiar with 4.6 engine bay*

can you not run one to the alt case bolt? if not, there has to be a bolt somewhere close you can use. as long as it connects to the block, it'll be fine (i.e. accy brackets, heads, etc)

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post #55 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jco1385 View Post
*not too familiar with 4.6 engine bay*

can you not run one to the alt case bolt? if not, there has to be a bolt somewhere close you can use. as long as it connects to the block, it'll be fine (i.e. accy brackets, heads, etc)
The thing about the alt is that there are 2 bolts on the bottom holding it against the timing cover and then there is a mount w/hole on the top at the back that is suppose to be bolted to a brace that is bolted to the crossover. Unfortunatly I bought the car without the alt brace and I have yet to find one.

Also from what I can tell the casing of the alt is aluminum and I don't think the hole on the back would be grounded even if it's bolted to the brace bolted to the aluminum crossover. I guess I could use the rigid non-braided solid copper 4 awg cable that I had bought from Lowes for a ground if I run it from the lower bolt closest to the battery. I'm just kinda scared about how close it will be to the belt. First I need to find a ring terminal large enough for the bolt to go through.

I'd just feel better if the ground went strait from the alternator just to make sure that the alternator has the best possible ground along with the rest of the engine.

-Randy-

Last edited by V8ThunderCat; 08-21-2009 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Figured I'd add a bit more input.
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post #56 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 04:58 PM
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Alternator Grounding point...

Hello all... I have found a possible grounding point on the 130A alternator on a 4.6l.


Sorry about the disassembled state of the Alternator, but it's all I have available at the moment. The hole in the back is not used for anything, and it's the same threading as the two long mounting bolts that attach the alternator to the engine block. It's perfect for a 5/16" ring terminal (I checked), and I don't think there would be any interference issues with the front of the intake manifold, since there is a gap there. The only caveat is that to access this hole, one must remove the alternator. I will be attempting this once I order a new alternator (current one is a little tired, and not worth rebuilding).

I gotta throw this in, too.... AWESOME SITE!! Been digging through it for the last coupla months, and this place has helped immensely with some of the issues on my newly-acquired 'Bird.

Last edited by skorchmp; 08-23-2009 at 05:00 PM. Reason: Can't figure out how to quote...
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post #57 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar maestro View Post
you could put a 100A fuse if you fear an accidental short....but not too many short circuits on our cars will draw 100+ amps of current surge......we just didnt have one at the moment

Just thought I'd chime in on the fuse matter. The reason for a fuse between the alternator output and the battery is that the battery is connected to the alternator at all times. When the car is not running, battery power is connected to the the rectifier assembly inside the alternator. The rectifier assembly consists of a number of high-current diodes (I counted 8, just now). A diode is a semiconductor device that allows current to flow in one direction only. The diodes in that rectifier assembly are the only thing that isolates your battery from the alternator casing, since some of these diodes are connected to the casing, since the case is used as ground. Think of what will happen if one or more of those diodes fail. When a diode fails, it could begin allowing current to flow in BOTH directions. Dead Short. Make that a dead short being fed by heavy gauge wiring connected directly to the battery. What happens then? Well, since the diodes are inside the alternator, much of the resulting carnage SHOULD be contained in there. Of course, with a fuse in place between the battery and the alternator, the fuse will pop, and interrupt the process of rectifier meltdown. I should mention that this is, of course, a worst-case scenario. I work in the electronics field, dealing with electronics components, and the odds of such a catastrophic failure of the rectifier diodes is not too great, IMHO. Odds are, the failed diode would simply vaporize due to the amount of current available from the battery. Most of the time when a diode fails, it simply opens, rather than create a dead short. But, the thought of a dead short in my engine compartment gives me the creeps. I would recommend fusing anything that is connected to the battery, for safety. Just my $0.02, of course.
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post #58 of 84 (permalink) Old 09-03-2009, 05:09 PM
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I think I've figured out a way to ground my alt. but now I'm trying to figure out where to place the Stinger in-line fuse box I bought. I cannot put it where the V6 people put theirs. I don't want to run the cable to far but it looks like I may have to put it on the side of the shock/strut tower below the brake lines. I just don't know how easy it'll be to work in that area. I'm afraid I may have to take my chances with not having a fuse.

EDIT: After looking at it again I think I'll just glue the fuse holder to the battery after I turn the battery around.

RE-EDIT: Nevermind, after looking at the mega-fuse I've realized that it will be easier to reuse that instead of replacing it.

-Randy-

Last edited by V8ThunderCat; 09-05-2009 at 03:44 AM.
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post #59 of 84 (permalink) Old 09-08-2009, 07:16 PM
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I finally found the time to upgrade the Big 3! It took longer than it should but that happens a lot when live in a 3rd floor apartment and the tools and parts aren't always in the tool box in my trunk. I didn't do it the way I had planned but I at least had old extra parts that still made it possible. The following pics I guess will be the first to show a 4.6L V8 with a bigger better Big 3!

Here's the alternator ground terminal that took me forever to find in my junk box.


And another view of it.


This is where the rigid wire from the alt ground is bolted so that I could run the more pliable wire to the battery.


Here's the spot where I used a Mouse sander to expose the metal.


Here's the battery ground all fixed up.


Now I think maybe I need something to make sure this terminal isn't too overloaded?


Here's the simple beginning of the new alt. power cable.


And of course it goes strait to the Mega Fuse.


Now I finally also used a new battery power terminal.


Last but not least here's the Big 3 in all of its glory.


Even with all of this done I'm still getting voltage dips. The voltmeter at least now usually stays a lot further to the right than before. It now reads 14.65v when running except of course when the engine bogs down which is something I've been trying to figure out. It dips whenever anything electrical comes on but it at least recovers quickly. I'm guessing that there's a bad ground somewhere but until someone points out to me where all of the grounds are I may never find it. I'll start a topic about this later if no one replies here.

-Randy-
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post #60 of 84 (permalink) Old 11-13-2009, 02:48 AM
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No one has specified whether the voltmeter gauge and idiot lights work with this set up.

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