LOOK HERE IF YOU HAVE VOLTAGE-DROPS----70A -> 130A ALT SWAP FOR '89-'93 3.8s + BIG 3 - TCCoA Forums

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post #1 of 84 (permalink) Old 05-10-2005, 04:01 AM Thread Starter
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Lightbulb LOOK HERE IF YOU HAVE VOLTAGE-DROPS----70A -> 130A ALT SWAP FOR '89-'93 3.8s + BIG 3

http://forum.sounddomain.com/ubb/ult...c;f=5;t=007801

only thing i have to add is that very soon, after the upcoming Texas Meet, I will show how to upgrade the pre-94 3.8L V6s with the measly 70A alternator, to the 94+ 130A alternator....full instructions w/ pics coming soon

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post #2 of 84 (permalink) Old 05-27-2005, 02:17 AM
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DO IT DO IT THIS IS WORTH DOING it is easy and cheap and it WORKS .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................ thanks guitar maestro AND Stangeriffic2002
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post #3 of 84 (permalink) Old 07-29-2005, 08:58 PM
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I disagree with the crimping method I have always soldered the terminals on w/torch and solder for the best solid connection you don't want to have a power wire come loose and they have been known to.

But I will agree with every thing else in the article. Well written for beginners who need help doing it correctly even if your not installing a high power system.

This is my 2 pennies but coming form a installer think about it a little.


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post #4 of 84 (permalink) Old 10-06-2005, 08:44 PM
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I did this on the 3.8 with the big harness plug that plugs into it.. somewhat of a challenge..
there seem to be 2 wires that put out +12v which have continuity between them within the alt.. so I stripped away enough on both and soldered 8 guage to each.. stuck them in some conduit and ran the 2 8awg to the battery +,along with 4awg from alt casing -> battery - , 4 awg from battery -> chassis ground.. works great..
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post #5 of 84 (permalink) Old 10-08-2005, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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thanks for reminding me about this, 90lxbeater......i have all the pics from when i did the swap on Chorizon's car back in may, but he lost the packages from the bolt/washer sizes.....and i wanted to get something tech-article worthy....i guess i'll just go ahead and put the pics up this week, and hopefully people won't have too much trouble finding the bolts/washers
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post #6 of 84 (permalink) Old 10-31-2005, 11:32 PM
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Where exactly does the ground run to from the battery, I can't seem to get up into the drivers-side of the engine and see it, let alone feel where it bolts to the block =P I also noticed 2 wires coming from the battery ground, a smaller one, about 8 guage or so, and another bigger one, about 4 guage. Where do they go exactly?

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post #7 of 84 (permalink) Old 11-01-2005, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitar maestro
thanks for reminding me about this, 90lxbeater......i have all the pics from when i did the swap on Chorizon's car back in may, but he lost the packages from the bolt/washer sizes.....and i wanted to get something tech-article worthy....i guess i'll just go ahead and put the pics up this week, and hopefully people won't have too much trouble finding the bolts/washers
dude, i told you they were 5/16 by 6 inch, did you not get my pm? and they were loose bulk nuts, washers, and bolts we found at ace but you said yourself that you didn't have to do it on yours, so maybe nobody else will either.

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post #8 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-03-2005, 08:38 AM
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Does anyone have any pics of their wiring upgrade that they can post? Like where the chassis and engine grounds are and also where the wire ends are that I should be replacing on the +battery.
This is all very confusing to me.

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post #9 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-03-2005, 10:34 AM
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what's with the confusion? you don't need to REPLACE anything, simply ADD shortest possible runs of heavy guage wire.. the stock wiring isn't going to hurt anything by still being there..
the alt casing is what you need to ground heavily to the body(you can even use one of the alt mounting bolts), along with the battery..
if you have a single +12v (ok 14.x) output on your alt, add a nice chunk of 4 guage, and route it as shortly to the battery + as you safely can.. a big (200A) fuse is a nice precaution, if it makes you nervous.. I found I could start my car from a battery in the trunk with one of those ON
in fact, if your doing it for a sound system, go right ahead and run 8 guage battery to trunk, bolting it to the body in numerous places along the way, it'll level out the electrical potential of each area and eliminate the horrible ground loops (aka alternator whine).
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post #10 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-03-2005, 10:47 AM
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The alt to bat+ is the easy part because they are right on top. My confusion is...where are the engine and chassis ground points (engine to chassis, chassis to battery neg.) to complete the big 3?
I don't have a big sound system and I have a ground for that already.
Thanks for the help, but remember...some people turn wrenches much better than they do wiring and follow electrical concepts.

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post #11 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-03-2005, 12:26 PM
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I'm sorry if I came off a bit pompus, I've had way too many medications this morning to be quite right
I can tell you where ford decided to put MY stock ground strap.. on the backside of the heads I believe.. up against the firewall..bolting to the firewall..
I remember slicing up my fingers because I had that nice heavy sharp edged hunk of metal in my hands when I found myself tethered by it while it trying to replace head gaskets.. they hid it good on me lol..
but my idea is, so long as it's connected to your engine/alternator/essentially one big hunk of metal, it doesn't much matter where you connect it..
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post #12 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-03-2005, 02:33 PM
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It's cool.
What about some feedback from the 4.6 guys?

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post #13 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-03-2005, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
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Where exactly does the ground run to from the battery, I can't seem to get up into the drivers-side of the engine and see it, let alone feel where it bolts to the block =P
On my 3.8, the negative from the battery connects to the engine mount bracket on the drivers side.
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post #14 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 12:12 AM
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big three pics along with early model v6 70 amp to later model 94+ 130 amp alt swap

here is the the alt swap/big three article along with pics, it starts at the 14th pic down the page. i'll try to post it here later. enjoy.

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post #15 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
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here is the the alt swap/big three article along with pics, it starts at the 14th pic down the page. i'll try to post it here later. enjoy.
dangit man. Now I don't have an excuse!

Thanks!

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post #16 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 12:30 AM
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no prob, props go to gm for helping me do the whole thing. i'm in the middle of doing a new thread. hope you guys like it. sorry bout the 6 month wait...

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post #17 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 02:03 AM
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89-93 v6 70 amp alt to 94+ v6 130 amp alt swap article along with the big 3 upgrade

okay guys, i finally got around to it, so here goes,.

this is the beginning of my series of pics depicting a swap to a later model 1994+ v6 130 amp alternator in my 1992 thunderbird that was originally equipped with a wimpy 70 amp alt, we also upraded the Big 3 which is supposed to help with the dimming of the headlights with high wattage audio systems. props go out to my friend oscar, aka guitar maestro, who helped me wire the whole thing and donated not only his expertise, but also alot of 4 ga wire. here it is in it's normal habitat. we used redthunder's alt for the swap into sesshomaru.







here's the difference between the two alts, the wimpy early model 89-93 v6 70 amp alt is on the left, the better later model 94+ v6 130 amp alt is on the right.



here is the early (89-93) alt wiring harness.





here is the 94 alt wiring harness, notice the difference.



here is the extension piece that must be added to the bracket so the later model alt will bolt up to the early model mount.



here is the top view of the extension, this was made with a piece of heatshield that i had laying around.







here is the mod you have to do to the early alt harness to plug in the newer alt. you just cut the white with black stripe wire and install a small female spade terminal on the wire and plug it into the newer alt. you do not use the rest of this connector



here's how you plug it in.



this is the 5/16's by 6" bolt along with washers that were used on the bottom hole of the alternator.











here's where it goes, you may or may not need it depending on if the original bolt will fit through the hole on the alternator. if it doesn't you will also need the nut to go along with it. but according to oscar he didn't have to do it on his early model cougar, but we had to on my bird though. be sure to use threadlocker blue on all of the bolts to keep them from vibrating loose.

okay that's it to the alt upgrade, big three is in the next post.

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post #18 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 02:04 AM
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big three





here is the new engine ground that was added as part of the big three upgrade.





notice the three wires going to the ground terminal, one is the regular factory ground, the other two are the new ones added for the big three, one is the engine ground, and the other is the chassis ground.





here is the spot that we made sure that it was nice and clean for the new chassis ground.



here is the new nice and fat positive wire that will go directly to the positive terminal on the battery, to the left is the new engine ground, sorry they are all red, it's all we had.




here is the positive terminal that now has a 4 ga supply from the alt. factory wires were ten gauge i believe so it should allow more current flow for better charging.




here is the big three starting to take shape, along with the newer more powerful alt.

and here it is in all it's glory, the big three, bigger engine ground, bigger chassis ground, and a bigger positive power supply from the alt to the positive terminal on the battery.











the engine ground, and the supply, different angle.


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post #19 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 02:28 AM
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Hide them wires!!!!

Why did you use 4ga?

My car has seen its days.
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post #20 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 02:38 AM
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it's all on my red 94 now and it is alot cleaner now, we did it like that for simplicity's sake because most of it was done in the wee hours of the morning, and the 4 ga wire was used because that's what size we could get our hands on at the moment, this was all done back in may btw, lol.

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post #21 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 09:12 AM
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That's exactly what I needed chorizon...thanks for those pix.
I do have one question though...on your overall pix of the big 3, you have the engine mount (alternator casing) connected to the neg. battery post. The article mentions engine to chassis. Does it matter that it is connected to the NBP instead of the chassis ground?
Please forgive an ignorant question...

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post #22 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 10:27 AM
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they both go to the same place on the neg terminal, so i doubt it would make that big of a difference, i noticed less electrical interference and alot less dimming of the headlights with my system after we did the swap and the upgrade, so i'm pretty sure we did something right.

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post #23 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-04-2005, 11:22 PM
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I've been waiting a while to see this. My one and only question. Why isn't there a fuse between the alternator and battery? Is it not necessary?
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post #24 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-05-2005, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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dang chorizon beat me to it....lol.....i kept putting it off and off, and i forgot bout it.....sorry bout that guys

you could put a 100A fuse if you fear an accidental short....but not too many short circuits on our cars will draw 100+ amps of current surge......we just didnt have one at the moment

not to take any of your glory away from your thread chorizon, but do you mind if i merge it along with the sticky i have up on top of the forum?

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post #25 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-05-2005, 07:23 AM
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Sorry for the cross post, but I gotta get this answered.
OK...I got all the wires on, clamped and cinched. So the last thing to go on was the negative connection. Now, in the past, I've always gotten a little spark on the negative post when I put the clamp on and only when it first came in contact. Now, after 3 sets of 4g wires in place for the Big 3, the spark was pretty big at the post and ALSO at the alternator post. It actually sparked pretty hard and then again a few seconds later and I wasn't even tightening the negative clamp. I tried it a few times and the hard spark happened every time. Is this normal with the bigger wires? Or do I need to check some things?
I'm running a higher than stock CCA battery and I have a reman, stock 130 alternator.
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post #26 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-05-2005, 07:25 AM
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meh, whatever, i just thought it would be cool to have one that is for us v6 guys who also wanna do the late model alt swap, lol, but if you feel like it i guess it's okay. just put it in the front and clean the thread up a little,

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post #27 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-05-2005, 07:28 AM
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well i'm gonna try to be quick with this cause i gotta go, do you have your door or trunk open when you do this? anything that draws current will cause a spark when you connect the neg terminal.

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post #28 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-05-2005, 09:20 AM
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Nothing that I can think of...I've a 97 so no hood light. What about an amp (no on/off switch) or the theft deterrent stuff from Ford?

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post #29 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-05-2005, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
Nothing that I can think of...I've a 97 so no hood light. What about an amp (no on/off switch) or the theft deterrent stuff from Ford?
it could be, but i think you should expect some spark when you connect the ground, the one on mine is fairly impressive, lol, now if you got smoke coming from somewhere i would say that you definately have a prob,

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post #30 of 84 (permalink) Old 12-05-2005, 11:55 PM
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Well, hmmm...it was a pretty stout spark with a little bit of smoke coming off the alternator and maybe on the neg. post.
Gimme some ideas on what I need to look at...this stuff doesn't make sense to me so I gotta ask for help. Disconnect amp while connecting battery? That seems to be the only thing that I can think of along your lines of thinking. Will try it tomorrow...getting late.
Thanks chorizon.

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