Fastest N/A 2v MN12??? - Page 4 - TCCoA Forums

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post #91 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by racecougar View Post
That only works well when you're able to make multiple passes per track outing.
Generally on the track around here you are lucky to get 5 or 6 passes in on a test and tune day. However, we do a lot of private track rentals with the local Mustang clubs around here in the spring and fall, get lots of runs and do as much tuning as possible at that time. Not uncommon to get 15 to 25 passes in on those days if you really want to.

When they hold the summer ones you can get more but most don't due to the heat. Good tuning and seat time in the heat generally results in great times in good air in the cool fall air.

When all is well its not uncommon for me to have 150- 175 passes in a years time at various venues/tracks.

Steve

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"There's a bad, built NA 4.6L COMING FALL 2017"

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post #92 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-04-2012, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r429460 View Post
4.56 was too much gear for the cams and intake. 6500 rpm @ JBMN's. 6500 shifts.
4.10's trap at 6000. Shift at 6k too.
Dyno for intake and cam combo is 6000 max. hp, 5200 tq.
your car could be a lot faster if you're only shifting at 6000 where your hp peak is. There's no such thing as too much gear unless you're losing traction at the start. In fact, the earlier you get to the RPM that produces zero acceleration at the top of 3rd gear, the quicker you'll cover the 1/4mi. Now if the engine or transmission can't handle being held at such conditions for a good stretch @ engine redline is a different story.
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post #93 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 01:55 PM
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Anyone want to guess where I was today? I thought I would snap a picture of one of the best N/A intakes (Turbo too). It was said a N/A 2V was making over 400 at the wheels with this intake.


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post #94 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 02:25 PM
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Anyone want to guess where I was today? I thought I would snap a picture of one of the best N/A intakes (Turbo too). It was said a N/A PI'd 4.6 2V was making over 400 at the wheels with this intake.

[IMG]http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h72/oxman64/2012-12-06110231-1.jpg[/IM]
GM's garage?


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rest in peace JL
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post #95 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 02:57 PM
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Just like a tunnel ram, but F I.

Quickest N/A Modular MN12.
11.97@ 109.35
3880 lbs. w/driver.

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post #96 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 04:35 PM
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GM's garage?

hehe.


That looks like a production piece. Mine is tweaked even further.
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post #97 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 04:39 PM
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hehe.


That looks like a production piece. Mine is tweaked even further.
makes my intake look small!


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rest in peace JL
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post #98 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 05:07 PM
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GM's garage?

LOL That's the first thing I thought when I saw that intake ...

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
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Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

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See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto.
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post #99 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 08:07 PM
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When all is well its not uncommon for me to have 150- 175 passes in a years time at various venues/tracks.
I've been running my XR7 since '05...and I'm only at 74 passes total in that car. It's hard to get more than two passes an outing around here, even in the middle of summer.

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post #100 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 10:10 PM
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Reading this thread makes me want to build another bird.... I have video somewhere of my 12.60 runs. I managed a couple 7.80's in the 1/8th with 3500 DA so low 12's should have been doable on my motor. I had like a 8.03 or something 1/8th mile on my 12.60 pass. Stupid hood pins

I don't think anyone is going to stand a chance when GM gets his together.

I'm with GM though. If you think 4.10 is enough gear, you won't be setting a record without a LOT of work. I really wish I would have had an opportunity to try 4.88's with my combo.

Maybe I should take the big bore stroker out of my garage and put it in a bird

96 v8 4.6 explorer, kooks headers, off road x, magnaflow mufflers, cl tb/plenum, lmaf, gt tube, xcal tune, alum shaft, 3800 dirty dog converter, darrin trans, 373 gears, hoosier slicks on fanblades, pbr brakes, Skinnies on front, No PS or AC, Aeromotive EWP, major weight removal (3380 LBS), 12.78 OLD COMBO.
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post #101 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 11:00 PM
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Yea you know, I got the first flight out of Milwaukee this morning to texas to visit Oscar. If been mentoring and teaching him a thing or two about the 4.6. No big deal.

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post #102 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-06-2012, 11:46 PM
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LOL. Just tell the pilot, "you see that smoke down there, from way up here at 35,000ft ? that's my friend cooking out, land near there."
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post #103 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-07-2012, 12:46 AM
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Reading this thread makes me want to build another bird....
DO IT!!!

I've been reading up on your old build lately. I saw some talk of you getting rid of your power steering. Did you ever get around to that? I wouldn't mind in a smaller car but a boat like ours.. lol not a chance.

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post #104 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-07-2012, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by paintme205 View Post
Reading this thread makes me want to build another bird.... I have video somewhere of my 12.60 runs. I managed a couple 7.80's in the 1/8th with 3500 DA so low 12's should have been doable on my motor. I had like a 8.03 or something 1/8th mile on my 12.60 pass. Stupid hood pins

I don't think anyone is going to stand a chance when GM gets his together.

I'm with GM though. If you think 4.10 is enough gear, you won't be setting a record without a LOT of work. I really wish I would have had an opportunity to try 4.88's with my combo.

Maybe I should take the big bore stroker out of my garage and put it in a bird
Maybe the big bore stroker, cause with that combo you certainly weren't running those kind of times at 3500 feet DA without a power adder or on a NA 4.6L. What were you running for heads and cams, intake on that car? You need to get that car back out so I can get lined up next to you NA.

I saw Ricks car run 12.6's at SB about 2200 Ft DA this summer and Stuckinkaos go 13.2 both with a much better set up than what you have. Mine goes 13.2's & 13.3's in the same air.

At Negative -600 DA in NC last weekend I saw Stuckinkaos car go the 12.76 & (2) 12.78's along with some 12.8's along with a couple Mid Atlantic and TCCOA folks in attendance. That 200 lbs weight difference is not going to make that much difference either in ET, especially in the conditions you say you ran it in.

Steve

1996 Cougar XR7 Special Edition (Street & Strip)
"There's a bad, built NA 4.6L COMING FALL 2017"

Current Elite member of the Halfshaft snapping, Auburn eating, Tranny crunching, Piston Melting, Tire lifting Torque Club.

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post #105 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-07-2012, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MTNCAT View Post
Maybe the big bore stroker, cause with that combo you certainly weren't running those kind of times at 3500 feet DA without a power adder or on a NA 4.6L. What were you running for heads and cams, intake on that car? You need to get that car back out so I can get lined up next to you NA.

I saw Ricks car run 12.6's at SB about 2200 Ft DA this summer and Stuckinkaos go 13.2 both with a much better set up than what you have. Mine goes 13.2's & 13.3's in the same air.

At Negative -600 DA in NC last weekend I saw Stuckinkaos car go the 12.76 & (2) 12.78's along with some 12.8's along with a couple Mid Atlantic and TCCOA folks in attendance. That 200 lbs weight difference is not going to make that much difference either in ET, especially in the conditions you say you ran it in.
I'm sure my car weighed more then 200lbs less than theirs. I don't have the slip in front of me since i'm overseas but running 12.60s at 3500 is not that impressive to me. Especially with a 1.80 60 foot. It doesn't take that much when you have a lightened car and built motor. I find it ironic you bust my balls in every 1/4 mile thread but whatever.

I did get the power steering bypass to work. Pretty simple actually. It's really not to bad as a track only mod if you have skinnies in the front. With an aluminum block and a little weight reduction, I didn't mind at all.

For those wondering, Here are some tips to run faster.

Eliminate spoiler
Aluminum front skinnies Or mustang ultralight wheels
Bypass power steering (worth a tenth in 1/8th)
Electric water pump and no belt (worth two to three tenths easily)
Run 4.30 gears minimum.
Datalog shift points. Your tuner won't do it....Guaranteed unless you ask and pay them to.


I never claimed to have the most streetable vehicle but there are plenty of ways to make one faster if you don't mind losing certain creature comforts.

As for my combo,

12.5 to 1 compression pi headed motor with comp 270's. JL ran 4 tenths faster with 500 more pounds, two points less compression and same cams along with all accessories....Doesn't make my 12.60 seem so unattainable huh

Thanks to GM, Kdanner, and JL for sharing some secrets along the way. I asked all of them lots of questions.

96 v8 4.6 explorer, kooks headers, off road x, magnaflow mufflers, cl tb/plenum, lmaf, gt tube, xcal tune, alum shaft, 3800 dirty dog converter, darrin trans, 373 gears, hoosier slicks on fanblades, pbr brakes, Skinnies on front, No PS or AC, Aeromotive EWP, major weight removal (3380 LBS), 12.78 OLD COMBO.
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post #106 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-08-2012, 04:39 PM
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Is the 1/10 second imrovement actual or estimated?

Quickest N/A Modular MN12.
11.97@ 109.35
3880 lbs. w/driver.

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post #107 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-08-2012, 06:22 PM
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I'm sure my car weighed more then 200lbs less than theirs. I don't have the slip in front of me since i'm overseas but running 12.60s at 3500 is not that impressive to me. Especially with a 1.80 60 foot. It doesn't take that much when you have a lightened car and built motor. I find it ironic you bust my balls in every 1/4 mile thread but whatever.

I did get the power steering bypass to work. Pretty simple actually. It's really not to bad as a track only mod if you have skinnies in the front. With an aluminum block and a little weight reduction, I didn't mind at all.

For those wondering, Here are some tips to run faster.

Eliminate spoiler
Aluminum front skinnies Or mustang ultralight wheels
Bypass power steering (worth a tenth in 1/8th)
Electric water pump and no belt (worth two to three tenths easily)
Run 4.30 gears minimum.
Datalog shift points. Your tuner won't do it....Guaranteed unless you ask and pay them to.


I never claimed to have the most streetable vehicle but there are plenty of ways to make one faster if you don't mind losing certain creature comforts.

As for my combo,

12.5 to 1 compression pi headed motor with comp 270's. JL ran 4 tenths faster with 500 more pounds, two points less compression and same cams along with all accessories....Doesn't make my 12.60 seem so unattainable huh

Thanks to GM, Kdanner, and JL for sharing some secrets along the way. I asked all of them lots of questions.
1. I know for a fact that both Justins car and Ricks car run much better than 1.80's in the 60 ft.
2. One is a TFS headed car with cams, 1 is a stage II Ported PI with Cams as much or more than yours.
3. Lightened, What did you do to lighten it. Less than 3400 lbs without driver?
4. You were running a PI intake is that not correct?
5. What fuel were you running?
6. 26" Drag slicks on lightweight rims correct?
7. You are running 3800 stall, the others are running at least 4200 If I'm not mistaken and they are running at least 4:30 gears. You had 3.73's you stated.
7. So you are saying at 3500 ft you can outrun both of those above mentioned cars with just a little more compression and run 12.60's. Right!

Yeah, I'm not saying JL and some of those didn't didn't help you along the way. And those guys do know what they are doing. So do I. Far more years than you. A time or two if I recall I did help you out too (IM). But, you're not feeding those numbers to me unless it was on spray. Either of the two mentioned above cars, both that I know, would clean your clock same day same track and I'd be willing to bet mine would too NA!! Unless there is some secret you build you have not disclosed.

And as far as all the things you have mentioned to do about going fast, I've covered that list many, many years ago and the current cars in question are too.

Just a fact, plain and simple.

Steve

1996 Cougar XR7 Special Edition (Street & Strip)
"There's a bad, built NA 4.6L COMING FALL 2017"

Current Elite member of the Halfshaft snapping, Auburn eating, Tranny crunching, Piston Melting, Tire lifting Torque Club.

"IN MEMORY OF MY FRIENDS JOEL BENDER 1979-2006", JOHNNY LANGTON 1975-2011, and MICHAEL VIVERETTE 1953-2013"
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post #108 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-08-2012, 06:29 PM
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See we used to have a list back in the day that showed the fastest N/A 2V, 4V, SC 2V, 4V and so on. Can we start another? Put a list on the new thread in the Racing forum?

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post #109 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-09-2012, 01:36 AM
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Is the 1/10 second imrovement actual or estimated?
All times are actual. I tested stock, changed at the track, tested, then back to stock. Did many times.

96 v8 4.6 explorer, kooks headers, off road x, magnaflow mufflers, cl tb/plenum, lmaf, gt tube, xcal tune, alum shaft, 3800 dirty dog converter, darrin trans, 373 gears, hoosier slicks on fanblades, pbr brakes, Skinnies on front, No PS or AC, Aeromotive EWP, major weight removal (3380 LBS), 12.78 OLD COMBO.
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post #110 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-09-2012, 07:14 AM
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From 10/26/2011

Teksid 2 valve high compression longblock

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Selling my engine due to the car getting parted out. Had a mishap with hood pins and can't justify fixing the body, hood, mirrors and glass damage it caused since I just bought a new mach1 and I'm facing a potential job loss. Anyways here are the specs.

Teksid block bored .020 over
JE forged flat top pistons with valve notches 11.7 to 1 compression
Mark 8 connecting rods
Cast crank that was micropolished
rotating assembly balanced and blueprinted to .1 gram.
crank scraper / windage tray
96 thunderbird oil pan

Heads are MHS stock mod heads.
COMP 270 cams degreed and installed at 106 intake centerline
Trick flow adjustable crank gears.
COMP cams high lift valve springs

PI Intake manifold with aluminum crossover but no plenum / throttle body
Romeo valve covers
All new Ford OEM gaskets and bolts.
New ford Oil pump
Three bolt front timing cover
Water pump included
Crank and cam sensors included.

Engine has 1500 miles and 31 passes on it at the local 8th mile



Where are the 1/4 mile passes????? So are we just estimating 1/4 mile numbers?? Also, how about the nitrous kit you were selling?

Just want to get to the bottom of the mystery!!

Steve

1996 Cougar XR7 Special Edition (Street & Strip)
"There's a bad, built NA 4.6L COMING FALL 2017"

Current Elite member of the Halfshaft snapping, Auburn eating, Tranny crunching, Piston Melting, Tire lifting Torque Club.

"IN MEMORY OF MY FRIENDS JOEL BENDER 1979-2006", JOHNNY LANGTON 1975-2011, and MICHAEL VIVERETTE 1953-2013"
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post #111 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-09-2012, 09:26 AM
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Thanks painttime.

Steve, I thought that copy and paste was your car.
After further review, (read it twice) I get it.

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11.97@ 109.35
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post #112 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-09-2012, 10:07 AM
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Thanks painttime.

Steve, I thought that copy and paste was your car.
After further review, (read it twice) I get it.
Nope

Here's mine:

Stock 96 TB NPI Shortblock (4.6L)
Stock Pistons
Stock rods
Stock PI Heads Non-Ported/Stock Springs (CR ratio approx 10.5-1 with swap)
Stock Bullitt Intake
Stock Bullitt TB
90 MM Maf
VT Stage I cams
30 Lb injectors
Underdrive pulleys
Short accessory belt
A/C Delete
PS Delete-Manual swap
Meziere Electric Water pump
JBA Shorty Headers
PI converter approx 4200 stall
Stock Tranny Jmod-450 HP
Mark VIII Rear 4.30's
Tuned by Jerry W (2006) Track Adjustments by EECDOC Performance and myself.

3460 lbs car/3630 with me in it in Drag form (Drag tires 27" NA/28" on Nitrous and front skinnies)
3700 lbs street trim

Steve

1996 Cougar XR7 Special Edition (Street & Strip)
"There's a bad, built NA 4.6L COMING FALL 2017"

Current Elite member of the Halfshaft snapping, Auburn eating, Tranny crunching, Piston Melting, Tire lifting Torque Club.

"IN MEMORY OF MY FRIENDS JOEL BENDER 1979-2006", JOHNNY LANGTON 1975-2011, and MICHAEL VIVERETTE 1953-2013"
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post #113 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-09-2012, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by r429460 View Post
Thanks painttime.

Steve, I thought that copy and paste was your car.
After further review, (read it twice) I get it.
I get it too. No way he was running 12.60 with that setup with 1.80 60" ft.

97 LX
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Working out the bugs right now.

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BEST MOTOR TIMES
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BEST NITROUS
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post #114 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-22-2012, 06:00 AM
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This **** is still going on?

You're wasting your time. I've got stock long block Coyotes with nothing but headers and a Boss intake running 10.90s at over 125 in 1800' air. That's in Mustangs that weigh just as much as these cars do, and only using the first 3 gears of the bone stock auto trans coupled with a lousy 3.31 gear. Upgrade to some new stuff, you'll run better, get better fuel economy, and no BS like rough idle to deal with either.

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post #115 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-22-2012, 06:16 AM
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Kris

In that respect your are correct. Just shows how much times have changed.

I suppose at some time in the future someone will try that with these platforms.

Looks like you really have that Mustang singing. Congrats!!!!

Steve

1996 Cougar XR7 Special Edition (Street & Strip)
"There's a bad, built NA 4.6L COMING FALL 2017"

Current Elite member of the Halfshaft snapping, Auburn eating, Tranny crunching, Piston Melting, Tire lifting Torque Club.

"IN MEMORY OF MY FRIENDS JOEL BENDER 1979-2006", JOHNNY LANGTON 1975-2011, and MICHAEL VIVERETTE 1953-2013"
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post #116 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-22-2012, 06:30 AM
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It has changed SO much. I look around at all these 2V engines and stuff I have here and think what the hell am I going to do with that stuff?

I do have a small 2V project going on right now, I sold my 1996 248A car to a friend for his 16 year old son. So we're installing an Explorer engine I had ratholed, converting it to a 4R70W, overhaul/upgrades on the rear axle, suspension overhaul, etc. We have the kid working with us, and he has a lot to learn, but he is learning every time we work on it. We should have him out at the track running with us soon enough. At least some of this stuff will be leaving.

I think I'll put the 98 together as a cheap bracket car with one of the BB 2V engines, powerglide, E85 carb and 6-MOD ignition, just try to get it light and hopefully that will be something that runs reasonably well and is low maintenance. Play with it for a while and sell it off too.

Then there's my old Thunderbird. I guess I need to put it together nearly stock and sell it off unless someone wants a low mile roller. Gotta get this stuff out of here and make some room, I'm in the middle of buying everthing to convert my 2011 GT to a 2013 CJ and plan to start running NHRA stock eliminator with it.

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1996 Thunderbird LX- 12.54@106.08 NA
1998 GT - 11.51@122
2001 Lightning - 12.15@110
1996 GT 248A - ?@?
2011 GT - 10.46@129.38 180 MPH at the Texas Mile


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post #117 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-22-2012, 01:17 PM
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NHRA stocker.
That was the original idea I had for my cougar.
Spent $20k to run the index, that was a soft one.

KD be prepared to spend $100k to have a class winning
stocker.

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post #118 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-22-2012, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kdanner View Post
This **** is still going on?

You're wasting your time. I've got stock long block Coyotes with nothing but headers and a Boss intake running 10.90s at over 125 in 1800' air. That's in Mustangs that weigh just as much as these cars do, and only using the first 3 gears of the bone stock auto trans coupled with a lousy 3.31 gear. Upgrade to some new stuff, you'll run better, get better fuel economy, and no BS like rough idle to deal with either.
Thought the title of the thread was 2v motors No doubt a brand new 4v with 20 years worth of technology poured into it is going to run all over the older ones. I mean ours came out of the box with 205 HP and the Coyote comes from the factory with what 414? That's a hell of a headstart imo.

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post #119 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-22-2012, 04:50 PM
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NHRA sticker.
That was the original idea I had for my cougar.
Spent $20k to run the index, that was a soft one.

KD be prepared to spend $100 to have a class winning
stocker.
I know, I know. The $ I just spent on suspension components alone is outrageous. I've wanted a class car for a long time. I honestly had thoughts previously of building a 2V Thunderbird stocker, running under the index would be easy. I'd hate to ever have to tear down at a race though, those cars are just too hard to work on. The NA Cobra Jet for 2013 pushed me over the edge, I had the car and some of the more expensive engine parts already. It's jumping into the deep end though, this combo is for A/SA, B/SA, C/SA. Lots of good running B and C cars down here in division 4, I might be best off running fast and light in A.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95LX4.6 View Post
Thought the title of the thread was 2v motors No doubt a brand new 4v with 20 years worth of technology poured into it is going to run all over the older ones. I mean ours came out of the box with 205 HP and the Coyote comes from the factory with what 414? That's a hell of a headstart imo.
Well that's exactly the point. How much $ are you going to tie up building a 2V? You can buy a whole Coyote out of an F-150 for what a set of trick flow 2V heads alone are going to cost you. I've been running these things up to nearly 8k RPM, they don't need rod and piston upgrades. Reality is at this point you're fighting an uphill battle building a 2V, or even an older 4V.

EFI Tuners Organization Administrator/Gatekeeper

1996 Thunderbird LX- 12.54@106.08 NA
1998 GT - 11.51@122
2001 Lightning - 12.15@110
1996 GT 248A - ?@?
2011 GT - 10.46@129.38 180 MPH at the Texas Mile


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post #120 of 154 (permalink) Old 12-22-2012, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdanner View Post
Well that's exactly the point. How much $ are you going to tie up building a 2V? You can buy a whole Coyote out of an F-150 for what a set of trick flow 2V heads alone are going to cost you. I've been running these things up to nearly 8k RPM, they don't need rod and piston upgrades. Reality is at this point you're fighting an uphill battle building a 2V, or even an older 4V.
Not to go too far off topic, but the only difference between the F150 and the Mustang Coyotes are the cams, right? Also, IIRC the coyote is lighter and physically smaller than the 4.6L 4V, right?

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