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post #61 of 104 (permalink) Old 11-06-2014, 12:35 AM
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The only problem is the front bushing set.

It's VERY close to the size of the early Mustang strut rod fronts - there's a few who've talked about Heim joints to go there.

Maybe it's time to make that a reality, or to figure out how to make the early Mustang strut rod bushings fit.

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post #62 of 104 (permalink) Old 11-06-2014, 01:45 AM
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I think the solution is poly, the problem of course being that it will take someone with a lathe and experimentation to find a proper durameter of poly to use. Too soft and their will be too much movement, too hard and they will fracture or worse break the strut rod if over tightened due to bind.

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post #63 of 104 (permalink) Old 11-06-2014, 01:52 AM
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post #64 of 104 (permalink) Old 11-06-2014, 07:07 AM
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In reference to strut rod bushing alternatives..There's some good ideas in this thread-->>Aluminum strut rod to kmember bushings, good idea?








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post #65 of 104 (permalink) Old 11-06-2014, 03:03 PM
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Is the "Improved design" acceptable or is it just as bad as the Themroplastic one? Also where would I get the rod to control arm bushing?

If all else fails get a bigger hammer!

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post #66 of 104 (permalink) Old 11-06-2014, 03:05 PM
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Also where would I get the rod to control arm bushing?
Right now they're still available from Ford.

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post #67 of 104 (permalink) Old 11-06-2014, 04:18 PM
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Just called North Country Ford in MN. The 140b bushing is discontinued, but still in stock in some places. Sounds like we need to buy now, while we can, or find a viable option.
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post #68 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 12:56 PM
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Those strut rod bushings are why my car is sitting under my carport rusting away.I am trying to figure out away to either reconfigure the strut rod geometry or come up with a strong lower A arm to replace it.I'm having to learn a lot about steering geometry.

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post #69 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 01:18 PM
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I bought a set of the E9SZ-3A140-B off of eBay and bought the rest of the bushings from Tasca Ford right after you posted up about the 140-B being discontinued. Get going man!

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post #70 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 02:25 PM
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FWIW I've had blue aftermarket replacements in the LCA side since I've owned my car(9 years) and they're still going strong. The frame side are the critical ones.

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post #71 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
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I bought a set of the E9SZ-3A140-B off of eBay and bought the rest of the bushings from Tasca Ford right after you posted up about the 140-B being discontinued. Get going man!

Joe
I guess I need to get with it and search harder.Time to squirrel away parts for future repairs.

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FWIW I've had blue aftermarket replacements in the LCA side since I've owned my car(9 years) and they're still going strong. The frame side are the critical ones.
Are those the one from Super Performance or whatever the name of that company is that did part strictly for our cars?


Are you guys running poly bushings in the front with stock Ford bushings on the radius rods?

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post #72 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 08:21 PM
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I'm pretty sure mine are Moog since they're blue, which any parts store carries. SCP just repackages and charges a premium for the same stuff.

I'm not sure I understand your question? You want to run the OEM bushings on the frame side. Or are you asking about using rubber on one end and poly on the other?

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post #73 of 104 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 09:23 PM
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I'm pretty sure mine are Moog since they're blue, which any parts store carries. SCP just repackages and charges a premium for the same stuff.

I'm not sure I understand your question? You want to run the OEM bushings on the frame side. Or are you asking about using rubber on one end and poly on the other?
I messed that one up.My apologies.My question was,"are you running poly bushing on your front LCAs and Ford replacements on the radius rods?"I understand that the frame side bushing are bad to split and everyone runs OE to eliminate that problem.You answered my question about your non frame side bushings being blue Moog which is good,I can find those.

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post #74 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by emrldrvn View Post
Just called North Country Ford in MN. The 140b bushing is discontinued, but still in stock in some places. Sounds like we need to buy now, while we can, or find a viable option.
Really? I just bought a set about two weeks ago from the dealer here. Mentioned that to the parts guy about it being discontinued and he said they weren't

Apparently the bushings are cheaper here than online! I paid about $30 for all four bushings at the frame side. One bag had two rearward frame bushings in it.

So as long as your ferrules are intact why would anyone consider using the plastic ones?
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post #75 of 104 (permalink) Old 01-21-2015, 07:45 PM
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Really? I just bought a set about two weeks ago from the dealer here. Mentioned that to the parts guy about it being discontinued and he said they weren't

Apparently the bushings are cheaper here than online! I paid about $30 for all four bushings at the frame side. One bag had two rearward frame bushings in it.

So as long as your ferrules are intact why would anyone consider using the plastic ones?
US dealers have them listed as discontinued and my dealer here says they can't get them.They did call a couple dealers around our area for me, but no dice.That's when I brought my plight to the forum.I can try Canadian dealers but they'll probably cost me out the ass for them.Besides,I have moved on to other projects and moth balled the MN12,maybe for good this time.

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post #76 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben2go View Post
US dealers have them listed as discontinued and my dealer here says they can't get them.They did call a couple dealers around our area for me, but no dice.That's when I brought my plight to the forum.I can try Canadian dealers but they'll probably cost me out the ass for them.Besides,I have moved on to other projects and moth balled the MN12,maybe for good this time.
Ironically when the order came in it was shipped from the warehouse in Memphis, TN LOL
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post #77 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 01:48 PM
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Yes.That's ironical.

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post #78 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 02:07 PM
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I ordered the frame side bushings from Tasca, but it took me most of a week to nail down the 140-A and 140-B (control arm) parts. I called probably 20 dealers/businesses. A little patience and a dremel paid off and I salvaged one set of the sleeves as well. The inner sleeves are impossible* to find.

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post #79 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 02:12 PM
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I ordered the frame side bushings from Tasca, but it took me most of a week to nail down the 140-A and 140-B (control arm) parts. I called probably 20 dealers/businesses. A little patience and a dremel paid off and I salvaged one set of the sleeves as well. The inner sleeves are impossible* to find.
Check out the thread I just posted...

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=158586
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post #80 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 02:14 PM
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Check out the thread I just posted...

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=158586
That's the outer. I have found a handful of them in my searches, but zero of the inner one.

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post #81 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 02:26 PM
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That's the outer. I have found a handful of them in my searches, but zero of the inner one.
Oh...and here I was thinking I had found a pot of gold
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post #82 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Murder View Post
I think the solution is poly, the problem of course being that it will take someone with a lathe and experimentation to find a proper durameter of poly to use. Too soft and their will be too much movement, too hard and they will fracture or worse break the strut rod if over tightened due to bind.
By what I can find the OEM ones should be 70A durometer.

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post #83 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 10:31 PM
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Between Amazon and eBay i was able to get a whole set, minus sleeves. About $100 total including shipping. Ill get sleeves from Jay When the time comes.

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post #84 of 104 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 07:15 AM
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So you were the guy! I couldn't get the folks at Amazon to reply before they sold.

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post #85 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-24-2015, 09:56 PM
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I'm looking for a pair of the 140Bs. It's not looking very good to be able to find them. What is our best option for the CA side SRBs? Any input would be helpful. Thanks
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post #86 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-04-2015, 12:47 PM
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I am just now getting to this repair on my '98 MkVIII. I have already done the upper control arms and tie rods, both inner and outer, and now will order the remaining parts before I take it apart. Since the last post was April, what success have you found with other vendors? Our local Ford parts guy says he is sure he can obtain sets if I am patient. What does he know that others are missing? I only plan to do this once. Being new to TCCOA, I have found having another resource welcome, plus you guys are educating me on interchangeability. My car is stock, except for a set of Fondmetal 17's, running 225/60's. Thanks
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post #87 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-07-2015, 10:47 PM
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I think most people install the thermoplastic bushings with the "bullet pointing forward" at the subframe just like I did the first time as shown below.

There were no instructions with the Moog kit I got, so I put the bullet forward because that's the way the OEM setup looks.



Since I was getting the familiar steering wheel oscillation, I called Moog tech support and the guy I talked to was able to dig up a technical drawing for the kit itself.

As you can see from the drawing, the more conical bushing is actually the rear rod-to-sub-frame bushing.



So I pulled everything apart and reinstalled the bushings with "the bullet pointed to the rear" as shown in the picture below. I had to use the split replacement sleeves because I mangled the OEM ones getting the bushings out.



This was in April of 2013 and the feedback was noticeably reduced, but still there. So I just threw my hands up and said, "Oh, well."

Later that October I was checking the brakes and noticed the master cylinder fluid level was a little low. I filled up the master cylinder to the correct level and the oscillation disappeared. I posted this on my project thread, but decided to wait a while and see what happened before posting on this thread.

After putting several thousand miles on the car since driving it to work, here are my thoughts on the thermoplastic bushings:
  • They work fine if installed correctly per the Moog technical drawing
  • Resonance will occur when the pads and rotors wear down and brake line fluid pressure decreases to a certain point
  • "Pumping up" the master cylinder when the brakes are worn will add pressure and temporarily eliminate oscillation

The car drove normally with no bushing resonance/steering wheel oscillation in months of normal usage as a daily driver.

I will be replacing the pads on the car soon and the oscillation that has slowly crept back as the brakes have worn down should be eliminated.

The thermoplastic bushings have worked fine for me since October of 2013. It is important to note that my '97 LX is a non-ABS car. That may or may not make a difference, but it is worth pointing out.

My general perception is that if the TP bushings and sleeves in the kit are installed correctly, bushing resonance/steering wheel oscillation will only occur if hydraulic line pressure falls below a certain point due to normal brake wear.

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post #88 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-07-2015, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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I just wanted to clear up a few things with your post.
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Later that October I was checking the brakes and noticed the master cylinder fluid level was a little low. I filled up the master cylinder to the correct level and the oscillation disappeared.
These 2 things should not be related. As pads and rotors wear the fluid level in the master cylinder drops. This is normal. When new parts are installed the caliper pistons have to be pushed back into the caliper and the fluid level will go back up. As a side note, if you top up the reservoir with worn pads, then do a brake job later on, the fluid will overflow and make a mess.
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[*]Resonance will occur when the pads and rotors wear down and brake line fluid pressure decreases to a certain point.
When your foot is not on the brake pedal, brake line pressure should be zero. The wear on the rotors and pads should make no difference.
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My general perception is that if the TP bushings and sleeves in the kit are installed correctly, bushing resonance/steering wheel oscillation will only occur if hydraulic line pressure falls below a certain point due to normal brake wear.
Again, brake line pressure should remain at zero unless you actually press the pedal. (Please note that drum brakes do maintain a small amount of pressure, 13psi or so near each drum)
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post #89 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-08-2015, 08:02 PM
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I just wanted to clear up a few things with your post.

These 2 things should not be related. As pads and rotors wear the fluid level in the master cylinder drops. This is normal. When new parts are installed the caliper pistons have to be pushed back into the caliper and the fluid level will go back up. As a side note, if you top up the reservoir with worn pads, then do a brake job later on, the fluid will overflow and make a mess.

When your foot is not on the brake pedal, brake line pressure should be zero. The wear on the rotors and pads should make no difference.

Again, brake line pressure should remain at zero unless you actually press the pedal. (Please note that drum brakes do maintain a small amount of pressure, 13psi or so near each drum)
I installed the TP bushings wrong the first time and got the same bad result as everyone else.

I installed the bushings correctly the second time per Moog's tech drawing, topped of the master cylinder and the steering wheel oscillation went away.

It worked fine until the brakes wore down further. The resonance happens with the TP bushings when the hydraulic line pressure reaches a certain threshold because the pads are not maintaining the same pressure against the rotor.

If the fluid level in the master cylinder is not the culprit, then maybe it's the condition of the brake fluid itself. The car is 18 years-old and that's probably how old the brake fluid is. Does BF break down over time?

Fluid pressure and signal strength are subject to attenuation as distance increases.

It's as off-the-wall as why the TP bushings don't work in the first place.

There's nothing wrong with a custom solution to the problem at all. I just know mine work fine.

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post #90 of 104 (permalink) Old 09-08-2015, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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The stupid forum software didn't save my detailed reply.

Basically brake fluid absorbs water and should be flushed every 2-3 years. High water content can lead to rust in lines, low boiling points and other general brake problems.

Worn rotors and pads can also contribute to vibrations both while braking and while driving. Dirt buildup around the caliper seals, rusty caliper pistons and dry caliper slider pins can all lead to a dragging brake which can cause vibrations.

There is zero brake line pressure on disc brakes until you step on the pedal.
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