Public Service Announcement: Rear Upper Control Arm to Subframe Bushings - TCCoA Forums

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post #1 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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Public Service Announcement: Rear Upper Control Arm to Subframe Bushings

An issue has recently come to light that I felt warranted documenting and spreading the word about. It seems that in addition to the original design of the rear upper control arm to subframe bushings there is also a flawed design that's been infiltrating the market over the past few years. Both designs have shown up in the same packaging, under the same part numbers, through multiple brands. The only way to be certain you're receiving the correct part is to open the box(es) prior to payment and verifying visually.

This is the bushing you DON'T want to install:



Those consist of a metal core with a off-center, elliptical, hole inside a metal sleeve which is rubber bonded to an outer shell. Turning the inner core via the bolt allows for camber adjustment, however with the sleeve bonded to the outer shell, the control arm can't move without winding up the bushing. Whoever designed/manufactured the bushing either didn't grasp or simply disregarded the original, correct design; something that seems to happen all to often when it comes to aftermarket parts. Installing these bushings results in a relatively harsh ride and very limited rear suspension travel.



These are the bushings you DO want to install (original design):



These allow camber adjustment and full range of motion without windup, just as they should.


Be wary of poorly designed/manufactured parts out there, folks!

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post #2 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 04:20 PM
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Can you give a name brand, good or bad? Or do we have to check them all?

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post #3 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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Thus far, I've seen the "bad" bushing design packaged as both Moog and Duralast brand parts. I'm sure it will show up under other brands as well, as there are only a few actual manufacturers.

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post #4 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 07:50 PM
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off to check mine I just got from Rock Auto, lol.

yup, my Moogs are junk. Calling Rock Auto Monday morning. This will be interesting. The picture for the Moog, AC Delco, and Raybestos match the OEM design closely with the plastic ring that suspend the center eccentric thru-sleeve, yet the item in the Moog box matches the Mevotech picture on the Rock Auto Website. I sent them a picture so they can eat it, lol.

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post #5 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 08:51 PM
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ah crap, those are the ones i have on mine >.>

guess I'll be pulling those arms back out eventually. that's probably what that rubbing noise is back their sometimes... thought it sounded sort of like rubber tearing itself to pieces

mine were moog K8562....

now that i think about it, i remember thinking they looked kind of cheep... i event knocked on of my old ones apart for giggles and it had little grease covered bearings and stuff inside. solid rubber doesn't seem like a very good idea on that sort of thing...

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post #6 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 09:06 PM
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yup same ones



Picture on Rock Auto looks exactly like OEM with the plastic ring suspending the center sleeve that has to rotate, but the actual piece looks like the Mevotech picture which is solid rubber bonded to everything with no adjustable eccentricity, hence no possible camber adjustment.
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post #7 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 09:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nall_one View Post
mine were moog K8562....
Order the same Moog K8562 a few more times and you'll end up with some of the correct ones. Unfortunately, that's the problem...you don't know what you'll get until you open the box.



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Originally Posted by guitar maestro View Post
yup same ones



Picture on Rock Auto looks exactly like OEM with the plastic ring suspending the center sleeve that has to rotate, but the actual piece looks like the Mevotech picture which is solid rubber bonded to everything with no adjustable eccentricity, hence no possible camber adjustment.
The flawed design does allow for camber adjustment, as the inner core can rotate inside the center sleeve. However, since the center sleeve is bonded to the outer shell via rubber, it only allows control arm movement via bushing windup. Trust me, don't bother installing those. Do whatever you can to send them back for a refund.

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post #8 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 09:52 PM
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mine still had camber adjustment through the smaller round aluminum part, but it seems to be squawking, or at least something back their is. i'm sure the rubber is ripping from lack of twisting movement...

possible its the poly bushings though, never got around to putting in grease fittings for those either.

ill have to pop out those arms and take a look i suppose... not looking forward to another alignment though >.>

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
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post #9 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racecougar View Post
The flawed design does allow for camber adjustment, as the inner core can rotate inside the center sleeve. However, since the center sleeve is bonded to the outer shell via rubber, it only allows control arm movement via bushing windup. Trust me, don't bother installing those. Do whatever you can to send them back for a refund.
Mine don't move at all. Chucked them up in a vice and with a ratchet on the bolt in the center hole, and no-go. Already started the refund process with R.A.
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post #10 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-25-2014, 10:03 PM Thread Starter
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Mine don't move at all. Chucked them up in a vice and with a ratchet on the bolt in the center hole, and no-go. Already started the refund process with R.A.
Awesome. It seems that an even further flawed part has reached the market.

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post #11 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 09:32 AM
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Awesome. It seems that an even further flawed part has reached the market.
The first law of cheap parts: There's nothing so F'ed up that it can't be f'ed even more by a cheaper vendor.


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post #12 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 03:41 PM
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Just got an email from Rock Auto Customer service. Described the issue with picture attached. Let's see what they say.

Should be self-explanatory (hopefully, lol).
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post #13 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 11:22 AM
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Awesome!!

I've had mine long enough now that I will have to re-buy them. I put the full metal ones in when I did the rebuild. Then the car went down for a complete overhaul within 6 months. Anyone think RA will refund them due to flawed design? I'll buy the next ones local to save the hassle.

As for your 'squawking', that is probably your poly bushings. If you didn't use a very liberal amount of grease to install them, they will squeak. I put ES bushings under my s10 and they have continued to squeak for 2k miles so far.

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post #14 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jco1385 View Post
Awesome!!

I've had mine long enough now that I will have to re-buy them. I put the full metal ones in when I did the rebuild. Then the car went down for a complete overhaul within 6 months. Anyone think RA will refund them due to flawed design? I'll buy the next ones local to save the hassle.

As for your 'squawking', that is probably your poly bushings. If you didn't use a very liberal amount of grease to install them, they will squeak. I put ES bushings under my s10 and they have continued to squeak for 2k miles so far.
Right now would be the time to try something. I have corresponded with "Christy" from Rock Auto customer service. If you could provide proof that you installed these "bonded" units because you didn't know any better at the time, and say that you have continually chased a "squeek" coming from your rear suspension, they might just be inclined to help you out in some form or another. You can always say that your friend (with my email of course) is the one who brought it to your attention.

I have my return label to send mine back. Once they see that it has shipped back to them, they said they will send out the correct ones. Let's see what comes out of this.
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post #15 of 70 (permalink) Old 01-30-2014, 07:13 PM
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Excellent catch Rod! I had ordered some a couple months ago to freshen mine when I do the rear disk conversion (fortunately they're in the box and not on the car yet).

I also called Rock Auto and sent them an email; when I hear back I'll post it here. Hopefully they'll refund or exchange the parts, but more importantly I hope this design gets corrected if it hasn't already.
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post #16 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-01-2014, 04:41 PM
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New parts are on the way (fingers crossed)
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post #17 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-08-2014, 09:52 PM
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got the replacement bushings. More junk. Rock Auto says they called Moog and they said it's a "bad batch", lol.

Gonna give them one last chance before I ask for a refund, since I do need them.
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post #18 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-08-2014, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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I'd suggest pursuing a refund and just ordering them from Bill Evanoff. See here: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthre...33#post1058933

In related news, I've been approached to write up a tech article for SCCOA on the current bushing offerings for both the front and rear suspension systems. I should have it completed soon, and I will post it here on TCCOA as well.

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post #19 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-09-2014, 09:42 AM
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post #20 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-09-2014, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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All typed up: http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...60#post1502160

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post #21 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-09-2014, 12:40 PM
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Has anyone started making DLF's bushings?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
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post #22 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-09-2014, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
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Has anyone started making DLF's bushings?
There are a few sources for Delrin IRS bushings now. Take a glance over at LVC.

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post #23 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-09-2014, 02:01 PM
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Has anyone started making DLF's bushings?
Why, yes.

His handle here used to be 98mark8lsc ...

RwP
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post #24 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-10-2014, 05:12 PM
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Why, yes.

His handle here used to be 98mark8lsc ...

RwP
And still is...

That's me. I bought Doug's lathe/specs along with some other tools and stuff, from his widow back in September.

I can make just about everything that Doug used to make.
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post #25 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-10-2014, 05:18 PM
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I can make just about everything that Doug used to make.
Good to hear!

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wait, did i miss something? is DLF 'no longer with us' ?

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 170k FRPP PI intake swap, filter relocated! 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, Tru-Cool Max/radiator cooler bypassed, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 Michelin Defenders on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars
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post #27 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-10-2014, 06:57 PM
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wait, did i miss something? is DLF 'no longer with us' ?
Unfortunately, yes, he passed away in June.
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post #28 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-10-2014, 06:59 PM
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aaah damn! i just found http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=143367.....

i love my new forward bushing sleeves... that just ruined my night

he was such a friendly guy when i was buying them.

RUST!! eating away at me more than the rear fender wells
95 Deep Jewel Green 40th Anniversary Bird / Stock SOHC 170k FRPP PI intake swap, filter relocated! 97 Mk8 4R70W, Jmod, 3L27 / energy susp rear spindle, and cobra arm bushings, Tru-Cool Max/radiator cooler bypassed, 93 Mk8 shaft, and LCAs, 225/60r16 Michelin Defenders on Windstar twin 5spokes, Vogtland 1.6drop springs, Tokico Blues, PBR, and rear-disk swap, 89 SC swaybars
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post #29 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-10-2014, 07:06 PM
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Yep, certainly a tragedy for the Mark VIII/Thunderbird community. He was a wealth of information, and a great contributor.
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post #30 of 70 (permalink) Old 02-10-2014, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 98mark8lsc View Post
And still is...

That's me. I bought Doug's lathe/specs along with some other tools and stuff, from his widow back in September.

I can make just about everything that Doug used to make.
Purchasing information? It might be a while, but my next "big" task for the bird is an IRS subframe rebuild and I'd like to do it right the first time...

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