So I wanted coil overs in the front... - TCCoA Forums

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post #1 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-01-2014, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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So I wanted coil overs in the front...

One of my projects I'm doing is replacing the air ride in the Mark VIII. The cheap solution is the direct swap to T bird stuff. Not happy with what's available, I decided to figure out something different.

Started with a set of junk stock T bird front shocks. Drilled them to remove the oil, and cut them open to remove the guts. Cut the stock lower shock mount off and media blasted it. Cut the length down to match the length of the Bilstein strut insert. It's a press fit into the T bird tube.



The insert is for a Mitz 3000 GT. Lots of interwebs searching came up with it. Length extended, collapsed, and vehicle weight made it the closest match. Cheapest price I found was $135 shipped.

Specs:
OD 45.8mm (1.8")
Extended Length 480mm (18.89")
Collapsed Length 380mm (14.96")
Body Length 266mm (10.47")

Insert pressed into the modified T bird shock tube. Even the Bilstein seal is a direct fit.



Welded on a ring to space the coil over sleeve to match the end of the insert/tube.



Machined the upper shock mount to fit flush with the insert.



All I need now is to pick up a T bird upper mount, remove the rubber from the steel mount, drill out the hole for the shock. Might need a small spacer too.



Afco 7 inch length coil over sleeve.

QA1 10" 650lb spring. I started here based on someone here at TCCOA who converted a Koni to coil overs and it worked out well for him.

Also bought a torrington bearing set for the lower spring mount.



Need to finish the second setup, paint and wait on warmer weather.

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post #2 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-01-2014, 07:52 PM
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You may be a life saver for all of us who want upgraded shocks! Its obviously not the easiest DIY. But its something, and people will know what works!

You are awesome!

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post #3 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-01-2014, 07:57 PM
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Thank you for this post!

This is a very good example of what we will need to move into the future.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
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post #4 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-01-2014, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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You're all welcome. Since it's not even on the car yet, no claims on how well it will work.

A cheaper solution would be to just remove the guts of a stock shock and use the insert along with the original upper and spring. I think the shaft is long enough to work that way, but it's not something I've checked. I'll know more once I procure the stock upper seats.

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post #5 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-01-2014, 08:39 PM
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post #6 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-01-2014, 10:17 PM
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The upper shock mount that you machined - that's just a partial view of one of these, isn't it? Or is it something else?

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/rafr...&parttype=7600

I'm curious because if it's just the same upper shock mount we'd buy to put non-ARC shock into a car, then I think the worst part is about done there.

One more question - if you were going to use factory springs, could you cut the TBird tubes down above the lower shock mount and reuse that avoiding the coil over specific parts?

RwP
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post #7 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-01-2014, 10:34 PM
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Saturn5:
Brilliant work here.
Q: What's your plan for the rears to match the new spring rate and ride height of the fronts?
-g

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post #8 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-02-2014, 07:18 AM
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What happened when you drilled the tube? I'm looking into rebuilding ARC shocks and that part concerns me (releasing the pressure).

If all else fails get a bigger hammer!

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post #9 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-02-2014, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowez View Post
What happened when you drilled the tube? I'm looking into rebuilding ARC shocks and that part concerns me (releasing the pressure).
Drill with a small (1/16") drill bit, and cover the end with a rag before it goes thru.

Most older shocks won't have gas pressure; it will have leaked...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
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post #10 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-02-2014, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Ralph, That's the upper seat that comes with the Alco coil over sleeve/seat kit. I just opened the hole to match and trimmed the top to make it flush on my lathe.

gunn, I already have Cobra Conv Bilsteins out back. Down and dirty is using the Cobra rear springs too, tho I am looking at having the shocks grooved for a clip and coil over them too.

Yup, small drill, rag and stand to one side... Cause she's gonna spray. Once drained, I drilled it out to 1/2" (center, bottom) to clear the threaded stud on the bottom of the insert.

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post #11 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-02-2014, 02:04 PM
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Saturn5, I wonder what would be needed to just use the insert with stock TBird springs/lower spring mount / upper spring mount.

It'd be worth checking out if the inserts were cheaper ... too rich for me to play with, however.

RwP
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post #12 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-02-2014, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SATURN5
So I wanted coil overs in the front..
Nice!..Way to show off those Engineering chops..

Looks like a good design..Not just something thrown together..Probably outside of the scope for most of us though..

I mean..Not very many of us have a machine shop at our disposal..Again though..I applaud your skills..Good job!




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post #13 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-02-2014, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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I have yet to pick up the T bird original upper mount, once I do, I should be able to answer that. I think tho, it should be possible.

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post #14 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-02-2014, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SATURN5 View Post
Yup, small drill, rag and stand to one side... Cause she's gonna spray. Once drained, I drilled it out to 1/2" (center, bottom) to clear the threaded stud on the bottom of the insert.
I bought one set of koni inserts before they discontinued them.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
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post #15 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-02-2014, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
Not very many of us have a machine shop at our disposal
not yet....
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post #16 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-03-2014, 08:00 AM
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Not counting the cost of the gutted mn12 shock, how much did this set you back? Looks like you installed the insert, welded a ring for the threaded sleeve to rest on. What about that shock mount?

-Rob
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post #17 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-03-2014, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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Inserts are $135 shipped.

Sleeves, springs $195 shipped.

Tbird top mounts $50 shipped.

Used shocks $45 shipped.

$560 complete. Not cheap, but much cheaper then putting new Motorcraft air shocks back in it.

I don't have a "full" machine shop... lol Just a small mill, lathe, shop press, and a Mig....

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post #18 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-03-2014, 11:15 AM
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Nice fab skills. I am in the process of fabricating some brackets to use a bilstein coil-over shock on the front of my car. I was wondering if you knew how harsh of a ride the #650 springs are? I would like to go that much but am afraid to because my car is a daily driver.

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post #19 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-03-2014, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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I ran a the numbers using this: http://www.ridetech.com/info/spring-rate-calculator/

http://www.markviii.org/info/specsmain.html

Curb weight: 3761lbs

Weight Dist: 67/37 2520/1241lbs

Front corner weight: 1260lbs

Length from pivot to shock: 10.375"

Length from pivot to balljoint: 16.5"

Unsprung weight: 85lbs (est)

Spring angle: 80* (est)

Shock stroke/Spring length: 4.1"/10"

Cruiser/DD: 650lbsin/1.01" preload, Performance: 700lbsin/.73" preload, Race: 750lbsin/.49" preload

Additionally, there is a thread here where the OP used this same spring and found it acceptable.

My only question is the valving. Something I won't know until I bolt them in and drive. Worst case, I press then inserts out and have them revalved to the specs Bilstein used when they offered a shock for the Birds.

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post #20 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-09-2014, 02:53 PM Thread Starter
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The stock upper mount didn't lend itself to my needs other then to get measurements from..... So..... I made my own from 3/8" aluminum plate. Milled a 1 1/2" hole and made a two piece bushing from 2" Delrin. I think it'll work out just fine....







Now to strip it down, measure everything and build the pieces for the second unit....

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post #21 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-10-2014, 12:36 AM
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Given the shock's need to pivot a bit through suspension travel I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable with using bushing as stiff as Delrin bushing there.

-Matt
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post #22 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-10-2014, 10:42 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I'm not thrilled with how stiff it is even making the bushes a bit on the loose side. Looking into maybe a spherical bearing instead.

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post #23 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-12-2014, 07:38 PM
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What about UHMW?

Might be a little more forgiving...
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post #24 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-12-2014, 07:59 PM Thread Starter
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I went with a spherical bearing. Material and parts are ordered, should have the revised piece this weekend maybe.



Mount for the bearing (held in from below with a inside snap ring. Lower side locates the spring, upper goes thru the plate and bolted.


84 SVO Bright Amber Met, B234F 16V Volvo head conversion, RPE custom intake, header, FMIC, 38MM BOV, RPE modified diamond pistons, Crower rods, HE351 Holset, 44MM WG/dump, A1000/sumped tank, -8AN lines, 72lb injectors, 03 Cobra hydroboost, rack, brakes, IRS, Bilsteins/coil overs, MM lower control arms, RPE bumpsteer kit, T-tops
96 Mark VIII Black, black, Bullitts, Hub swapped/redrilled rear hubs, full RPE chassis brace kit, Maruader TC, Jmod
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post #25 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-12-2014, 10:05 PM
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Where did you het the sleeves from
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post #26 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-13-2014, 08:14 AM Thread Starter
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Summit.

84 SVO Bright Amber Met, B234F 16V Volvo head conversion, RPE custom intake, header, FMIC, 38MM BOV, RPE modified diamond pistons, Crower rods, HE351 Holset, 44MM WG/dump, A1000/sumped tank, -8AN lines, 72lb injectors, 03 Cobra hydroboost, rack, brakes, IRS, Bilsteins/coil overs, MM lower control arms, RPE bumpsteer kit, T-tops
96 Mark VIII Black, black, Bullitts, Hub swapped/redrilled rear hubs, full RPE chassis brace kit, Maruader TC, Jmod
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post #27 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Out with the delrin and in with a QA1 spherical bearing. 60Klb rated.

Lean right and left.





Spring mount and spherical bearing retained by snap ring.



Top of mount.



Fully assembled.



Now to tear it down, take final measurements and update my drawings, build the second one.

84 SVO Bright Amber Met, B234F 16V Volvo head conversion, RPE custom intake, header, FMIC, 38MM BOV, RPE modified diamond pistons, Crower rods, HE351 Holset, 44MM WG/dump, A1000/sumped tank, -8AN lines, 72lb injectors, 03 Cobra hydroboost, rack, brakes, IRS, Bilsteins/coil overs, MM lower control arms, RPE bumpsteer kit, T-tops
96 Mark VIII Black, black, Bullitts, Hub swapped/redrilled rear hubs, full RPE chassis brace kit, Maruader TC, Jmod
68 F100 Flareside CVIFS/M8IRS, 32V, T45, Cobra brakes, hydroboost, 3.55, 03 Cobra wheels
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post #28 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 07:06 PM
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Nice!

-Matt
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post #29 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 09:16 PM
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That's the way to do it!

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post #30 of 98 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 09:49 PM
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pattern of upper mount?



Could I get a copy of the pattern of to top mount?
I will be using 5" coil springs.


Paul Nm12tbirdracer@aol.com
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