Heavy Duty UCA Ball Joint Boot Options - TCCoA Forums

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post #1 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
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Heavy Duty UCA Ball Joint Boot Options

I'm in the process of installing the fancy upper shock mounts and noticed that the boot on the heavy duty UCAs is split. The UCAs are a good bit larger than the OEM UCA style. Does anyone know of an alternative boot I can install and use for these?

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
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post #2 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
I'm in the process of installing the fancy upper shock mounts and noticed that the boot on the heavy duty UCAs is split. The UCAs are a good bit larger than the OEM UCA style. Does anyone know of an alternative boot I can install and use for these?
RobertP was selling some urethane ones that might work; I believe they will fit the ACDelco large ones I have, but I really don't know.

Rob's Tire & Auto - Products

All the way at the bottom.

He doesn't get by here too often anymore, probably working on his cars.

And many others, lol.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

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post #3 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
RobertP was selling some urethane ones that might work; I believe they will fit the ACDelco large ones I have, but I really don't know.

Rob's Tire & Auto - Products

All the way at the bottom.

He doesn't get by here too often anymore, probably working on his cars.

And many others, lol.
I've been to his site and it looks like he only takes phone calls. I'm not sure I follow the idea of having a web site that doesn't even have an e-mail contact method.

Therefore I'm looking at other options.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
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post #4 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 07:12 PM
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you can also press out the ball joint can't you? Then put in a OEM replacement?
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post #5 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 07:13 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Natesriv View Post
you can also press out the ball joint can't you? Then put in a OEM replacement?
The ball joint is fine. It's just the boot that ripped.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #6 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 07:30 PM
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I'd bet one of these would work:

energysuspension.com | Tie Rod & Ball Joint Boots

I used all their stuff for my mark 8 lca builds.

Find the part number, then hit amazon, lol.
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Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

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post #7 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 07:37 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
I'd bet one of these would work:

energysuspension.com | Tie Rod & Ball Joint Boots

I used all their stuff for my mark 8 lca builds.

Find the part number, then hit amazon, lol.
I've been looking through both Energy Suspension and Prothane's web site and I haven't found anything that would work yet. The boots on they heavy duty UCA ball joints are ~2" in diameter and ~1.25" tall. I didn't measure the shaft diameter but since I haven't found anything that measures up to those first two measurements I haven't worried about the last one.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #8 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 08:05 PM
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Damn, you man I could have popped my ball joint off, changed the boot and not have to have spent 3 hours changing out my UCA's?!?!?!?

Learn something new every day!
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post #9 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Natesriv View Post
Damn, you man I could have popped my ball joint off, changed the boot and not have to have spent 3 hours changing out my UCA's?!?!?!?

Learn something new every day!
Probably not.

Unless it gets snagged on something it's usually shot about the same time, unless you catch it early.

MM's were bad at install...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

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post #10 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Probably not.

Unless it gets snagged on something it's usually shot about the same time, unless you catch it early.

MM's were bad at install...
Mine weren't bad at install but when I took the front shocks off the car to replace the top mount with my new design I noticed that the boot was split. I think I may have a solution so I've ordered it and I'll post back if it works out.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
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post #11 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 09:00 PM
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I bought mine from Robert p. They're great a lot better than rubber ones
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post #12 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1995 cougar xr7 View Post
I bought mine from Robert p. They're great a lot better than rubber ones
How did you manage to contact him? It looks like he's only available by phone.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #13 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 02:10 AM
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How did you manage to contact him? It looks like he's only available by phone.
I'm guessing you answered your own question.
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post #14 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 05:53 AM Thread Starter
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I'm guessing you answered your own question.
-g
Pretty much. I had some of this conversation in IRC with some of the guys so we found a path. I'm apprehensive about RobertP's boots because I believe they are intended for the stock UCAs and the ones I have are the heave duty and the ball joint housing looks like it's probably 10-20% larger in diameter.

I also hate making phone calls. I'm an IT guy by trade and I spend too much time on a phone already.
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #15 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 07:44 AM
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How did you manage to contact him? It looks like he's only available by phone.
I pm him on this site.
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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 07:58 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 1995 cougar xr7 View Post
I pm him on this site.
Interesting. I've done that in the past and haven't gotten a response. I've got another idea in flight but I'll try that and see if I get a response.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 10:41 PM
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My boots were bad at install but I didn't want to pay RobertP's price for some plastic. Curiuos what you find and if it would go on mine.

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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 08:33 AM
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Interesting. I've done that in the past and haven't gotten a response. I've got another idea in flight but I'll try that and see if I get a response.
It took awhile for him to respond, but he usually will
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 10:07 PM
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So the ac delco upper arms have a larger diameter ball joint? There is a heavy duty version? Just curious. Can't find any more threads about this.
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 05:01 AM Thread Starter
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So the ac delco upper arms have a larger diameter ball joint? There is a heavy duty version? Just curious. Can't find any more threads about this.
They do. Here is a more recent thread on the subject: Front UCA Forging, swappable?

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 07:59 AM
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You're not going to find anything stronger than the boots that RobertP sells. The only thing that can hurt them is a utility knife.

Al

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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 08:24 AM Thread Starter
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You're not going to find anything stronger than the boots that RobertP sells. The only thing that can hurt them is a utility knife.

Al
I don't necessarily disagree. I just have some questions about fitment for the heavy duty UCAs. If he responds to my PM then we'll be all set.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-28-2017, 03:17 PM Thread Starter
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OK, I may have found a part that will work. Prothane 19-1828 was as close to what came on the unit as I could fine. Unfortunately it's not an exact fit and polyurethane has the tendency to be slippery. However, if it's so function is to act as a dust boot then this should work fine. It's not going to degrade and the fitment of the ball joint to the spindle should keep it from slipping or sliding much.

On a side note, I contacted AC Delco and they couldn't offer any replacement boots or any engineering specs or advice on the original boots. As I'm sure most of you already know, they are probably just having it made in China and shipped here and the catalog center can only deal in catalog items of which the boot isn't one.

I'm going to run with this non-perfect replacement and hope that it holds up and doesn't do anything wacky. I did refill the joints with grease and nothing leaked out so I'm going to call that a good start.

I've attached a really crappy picture. Enjoy.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_20170128_160644.jpg (135.1 KB, 4 views)

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 03:50 PM
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I just had to do this as well, but with my Motorcraft arms(same dimensions as Moog). The boot tore at the retaining ring facing the spring, likely a result of being on jackstands so long at full droop. The energy suspension part number for these was 9.13119G.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0600.JPG (1.63 MB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_0599.JPG (1.80 MB, 0 views)

-Matt
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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 04:02 PM Thread Starter
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I didn't update the thread but when the car is sitting on the ground the Prothane boots work perfectly. When things are hanging they are so slippery that they don't want to sit correctly but on the ground they work out fine.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 04:16 PM
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Yeah that's how it appears to be with mine as well, I wouldn't do any off road rallying with them (kinda disappointing now that I say it lol) The sucky part about these designs is that they don't clip on(nor can expand/contract) so they essentially just surround the arm body through most but not all articulation, but on the streets they'll do just fine keeping junk out.

-Matt
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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 05:51 PM
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Doing some further experimentation, here's how the boot sits at full droop, exposing the old boot's retaining lip:




The boot stops at this lip:



So just for the hell of it I wanted to see how it would be if I pushed the boot over it:



Again mounted at full droop:



I mean, it seems kinda janky but I can fully articulate it like this without opening the joint up to the elements, so I may just leave it like this, and fill the gap with a section of hose to help keep it in place.


-Matt
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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 09:08 PM
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Besides covering up an old, torn boot..
I could see how this could be beneficial, if the joint has not already been exposed to contamination..
Then whatever is stuck in there, like dirt, sand, salt, etc etc..Will just stay stuck in there further wearing the joint..

My only recommendation for anyone using the aftermarket boot "covers"
Would be to fill the cup full of grease, before installing it over the old boot..
Grease is great at keeping stuff out from where it doesn't belong..






Rayo..

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1991 Ford Thunderbird Sport

"If you don't know where you're going..Any road will take you there."George Harrison
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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 10:31 PM
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Couple things.:

1. As stated, this happened during the swap, the arms are newish, with 15,000 miles and the car hasn't left the garage since the failure occurred. And no, despite being a mess, no sand storms have erupted in the garage

2. What happened was too much grease got packed inside too fast and going into full extension blew a hole open in the boot edge with a waterfall of grease coming out. This wasn't dry rot in either of our cases. Considering the ONLY control arms available are of the zerk fitting variety today, this can easily occur with any of us.

3. Being of the greasable variety means that in addition of being able to effectively push out broken down old grease for fresh, you also are squeezing out contaminants that may have gotten in there - a key longevity benefit of greasable joints over the sealed for lifers as come stock. You just need to be on top of it.

4. There is no covering up of any old torn boot, this replaces the boot completely. Plus the old boot was torn at the inner TOP on mine, ironically where the new boot in the initial placement I tried left a gap. I think using these in tandem with a stock boot would be fairly pointless.

-Matt
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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
I think using these in tandem with a stock boot would be fairly pointless.
That is commonly the method used, when using these aftermarket boot "covers"
I see now you took a different approach, by completely removing the old boot and using just the boot "cover" only..

By itself, how well will it work?..Time will tell?
Report back after 10,000 miles on your findings..lol






Rayo..

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1991 Ford Thunderbird Sport

"If you don't know where you're going..Any road will take you there."George Harrison
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