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post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 02:51 PM
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I saw on the weather channel that it was raining in PHX today. We just have light sprinkles/snow here and there. Nothing bad. I had the pads replaced on SC today so I could get it past inspection, brakes are still very sloppy though. Next spring when the snow stops I need to have them gone through again, get some hardware kits and rotors. Hopefully the calipers won't need to be rebuilt.

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post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 07:25 PM
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Well at least its drive able now. I think the calipers could be fine if its rust free.

Spinning pies like wheels.

DD driving my 20 year old project

Now with new ball joints...again
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post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-06-2012, 07:45 PM
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Necromancing the thread:

Today I replaced the Front wheel bearings on the 'Bird:

The PO had installed new pads and rotors from AZ 2 years ago, so they had about 20,000 miles on them. I had hinky pull to the left on braking at speed, Occasioanl wheel shake. I had thought most of the problem was strut bushings but I eliminated that.. so wth??

Here are those rotors.. and Remember, When I first looked at the car last spring, I could tell they had been recently installed.

Front... the face looks fairly ok. I think those are the cheap semi-metallic pads. Sure made LOTS of dust



Now.. the rear face. Note the pitting. This car was NOT parked for any appreciable length of time,, and remember there is none on the front



Also note the severe flake rust in vent area. Why you DONT buy cheap rotors. and especially from AZ

I installed Raybestos Pro Rotors and Ceramic pads from Rockauto.

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I do it just because I still want to know HOW and WHY!!! Quit learning=die. Be informed as to WHAT, rather than learn,=brain-dead already.
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Last edited by pettyfog; 01-06-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 09:14 AM Thread Starter
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Weird wear for 20k. Whats with the strip around the middle on the backs? Did they come off ok?

Are the wheel bearings easy to do on our cars, once the disc is off?

"...put me on a highway, show me a sign, and take it to the limit one more time"

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post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 10:41 AM
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Fronts are a piece of cake, provided you can rent/buy the right sized socket (the exact size escapes me, it's something like 36 or 38mm) and have a torque wrench that goes to 250 ft-lbs. Once you've got the rotor off, it's literally one nut and the hub/bearing is off.

The rears... you need to remove the knuckle and press the bearings in/out.

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post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-07-2012, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy625UK View Post
Weird wear for 20k. Whats with the strip around the middle on the backs? Did they come off ok?
Yeah.. no problems getting brakes apart, all hardware intact and easy to retract piston with small screwdriver. I have no idea what caused that line on the back. Note.. the opposite side rotor was fine both sides, no pitting at all, just the same roughness in the wear patterns.. and that line DID look like it was pitted all the way around.
- Also I screwed up and used the back pad in the photo of the front face. Sorry about that, didnt think of it until I edited the pix

Note on caliper piston retract. Way back in the late eighties I realized using a c-clamp on calipers was wasting a chance at checking the health of my brake systems.
Since then I use a simple method of checking for possible piston freeze due to contaminate or corrosion.

1. Every time I have the wheels off, I grab the caliper and twist it hard. The piston should retract a few ten-thousands just on this effort. Then I pull and push to check slide-freedom
- I dont do that to 'borrow trouble'; I do it because I'm lazy and dont like surprises.

2. When retracting the piston fully {I never do it without a reason} I pry it back using a small flat blade driver between the rotor and back pad. What I did yesterday just needed about 3/16". Then if quite a way out use a bigger pry.

REASON is to check for piston hang due to solid contamination. Using that method you will know if there's something restricting its travel. C-clamp, you probably wont. In this situation a case of working harder makes you smarter. But it doesnt require much effort, just patience.
- I have in the past done a full retraction simply by pulling the caliper outward {rotor tightened down}. Seemed like it took an hour, that's when I started the 'pry' method.

ALSO: this car has a history of initial pulling to left when braking, comes and goes. P.O. thought it might be a break/flap in the inner lining of the flex line. I've checked relative brake heating ASAP, numerous times, when that happens and never found a difference. There were too many mitigating factors though.. including bad strut bushings, not to mention out of the box no-lube LCA ball joint from AZ.

Reason just might be the left wheel bearing.. see below

Quote:
Are the wheel bearings easy to do on our cars, once the disc is off?
Like Term says... not too bad. And it's a 36MM. Blazer and TBird use same .. aint I lucky!

But you sure dont want to wait until they get really bad, here's why:



That's varnish from burnt grease. The hub didnt wiggle or move laterally and spun really well.. too well... difficult to pry off cap. But it was noisy on the road. It took a little effort to pry the hub off but not too bad.

Where I ran into trouble was putting the new one on. I sanded it a little but new would not go on. Lost my cool and try to bang it on with heel of my hand.. which pushed the inner race of the outer bearing out. So I sanded ALL the varnish off



Also.. be sure to torque to specs. 190 ft lbs, at least
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94 Daily Driven 4.6L View Post
An important note:

Install new front axle wheel hub retainer and tighten to 188-254 lb-ft.

The retainer is not reusable.
Common sense option.. the LEFT SIDE RETAINER MUST be replaced. Get at least one new one and use it on that side.
Reason.. not like the right bearing seizing is goign to spin the right side nut off.

I thought I had a new one but it wasnt. So on the left side, I banged up the threads with a hammer {with backing hammer} Worked well.

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Rahter long-winded essay on the problem but half the value of these forums is to share what we know. I've wanted to know not just 'what' but 'why and how' all my life. I figger some others do, too. Thus my screen name and avatar.
Never use a few sentences when a full essay will explain better.

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I learn more about cars every day!
I do it just because I still want to know HOW and WHY!!! Quit learning=die. Be informed as to WHAT, rather than learn,=brain-dead already.
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Last edited by pettyfog; 01-08-2012 at 08:19 AM.
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post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 01:33 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pettyfog View Post
Rahter long-winded essay on the problem but half the value of these forums is to share what we know. I've wanted to know not just 'what' but 'why and how' all my life. I figger some others do, too. Thus my screen name and avatar.
Never use a few sentences when a full essay will explain better.

Personally made our departmental status meetings a living hell for some. But guess who they came to when they needed answers; I made a good freaking living because of that.
Absolutely 100% agree. Thanks for the info, it will be very useful if I have to do this job on mine.

"...put me on a highway, show me a sign, and take it to the limit one more time"

The Eagles
1975

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2149821

RIP Dutch T-Bird (Robert Hendriks) 1970-2012 No doubt looking down on us from his low-riding T-Bird in the sky.
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post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 04:46 AM Thread Starter
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Resurrecting this thread that I started nearly 5(!) years ago....

It became apparent not that long (6-7k miles) after changing the rotors on my car that the new ones had warped - again. To say that I was VERY unimpressed with the quality of the Ford items, is a massive understatement. The car's only been used for a couple of thousand miles/yr since 2013, but this year the wobble on braking got to a stage where I finally decided to change them - again. Maybe the steel they used came from China or something - I don't know.

The ones I fitted in 2011 were genuine Ford items shipped all the way over here specially (at some expense!).This time, I've discovered that EBS brakes manufacture rotors for our cars in the UK. So I fitted a pair of theirs plus another set of pads last week.

Thanks to greasing the old rotors/hubs before I fitted them, they practically fell off when I took the clips off, so it was a piece of cake compared to last time. For the first time ever (on any car I've owned) I even gave the backplates and calipers a coat of paint while I was at it.

I've driven the car to work today for the fist time since changing them. they feel ok, and I'm taking it easy at the mo. I did the new rotor conditioning routing from the Technical Articles, the same as I did before just after fitting them. It didn't help last time - hopefully these will last longer....

"...put me on a highway, show me a sign, and take it to the limit one more time"

The Eagles
1975

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2149821

RIP Dutch T-Bird (Robert Hendriks) 1970-2012 No doubt looking down on us from his low-riding T-Bird in the sky.
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post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 08:35 AM
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On another car of mine, Crown Victoria, I had pulsing. Plenty of life left but it was just bothering me badly.

I bought cheap Ebay stuff. Good for about 2 years and the same pulsing has come back. Albeit not as noticeable but there nonetheless.
But they were 159.00 for all 4 rotors and pads so are disposable. Ha. Look good though.
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post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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As annoying as it is, I could kinda understand it if they'd have been cheaper/eBay parts. I was under the misconception that oem rotors would be top quality.
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post #41 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Andy625UK View Post
As annoying as it is, I could kinda understand it if they'd have been cheaper/eBay parts. I was under the misconception that oem rotors would be top quality.
Agree. The funny thing is these Ebay rotors actually are really nice. Slotted and drilled but they are not rusted and work really well.

I put Autozone on my Flex (36,000 miles). And they are grindey even while driving. Not worry-some like but you know they are there. Supposed to be high carbon so I think they could be why. Only had them for 5 months and less than 1000 miles though so we will see.

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post #42 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 01:44 PM
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If you do a long slowdown from high speed to a stop, and sit with your foot Hard on the pedal, the rotors will pulse from then on.

If they get Close to red hot, and you don't lighten up on the pedal, it wastes them every time.

I have a really cool laser setup at work that will show surface imperfections on polished glass; you can see the pad outline clearly on a bad set I have.

PBR's haven't done this Yet; I think the stock calipers have some serious force...


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post #43 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
If you do a long slowdown from high speed to a stop, and sit with your foot Hard on the pedal, the rotors will pulse from then on.

If they get Close to red hot, and you don't lighten up on the pedal, it wastes them every time.

I have a really cool laser setup at work that will show surface imperfections on polished glass; you can see the pad outline clearly on a bad set I have.

PBR's haven't done this Yet; I think the stock calipers have some serious force...

It's not the "force" of the caliper that's important. It's the surface area of the pad to the surface area of the rotor that's important.

The PBR's, with a much bigger pad area than the stock Thunderbird brakes will distribute the friction across a wider area, reducing the overall heat load since it's directly applied over a larger area. This helps a lot with both braking force as you have more pad/rotor contact area AND heat distribution, which is what ultimately causes the warping. It's not how hard the caliper clamps down on the rotor, it's the heat being applied to a smaller area, leading to a hot spot, which if you don't get off the brake or let them cool will lead to warping.

That's why multiple pistons help brake more efficiently, they provide more direct contact between the pads/rotors due to more even dispersal of the fluid pressure. Instead of the middle of the pad getting all the force, and the outer edges getting less, it spreads the load, which makes for more even heating, more heat dispersal, etc.

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