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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 05:39 AM Thread Starter
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Rear Brakes Dragging

I realize that this is a fairly n00b question but I know you've all been bored.

I swapped over to SN95 hubs and put the relocation brackets in place and swapped over to the bigger rotors in the rear. Now I've got a problem with the rear pads dragging (really bad). The calipers are new, the pads are new, the rotors are new. From what I've read the suggestion is that I need to lubricate the slide pins. I guess I wouldn't have thought that I needed to do that.

Any thoughts?

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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:01 AM
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Lubricate the slide pins; lubricate the calipers where the pads drag; and check the brake hoses.

RwP

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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphP View Post
Lubricate the slide pins; lubricate the calipers where the pads drag; and check the brake hoses.

RwP
OK, lubricate the slide pins: Will do.

Lubricate the calipers where the pads drag: Say what now, what now? I'm not sure I follow this part.

Check the brake hoses: Checked. They are SS hoses.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
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3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
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Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:44 AM
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Is the e-brake cable pulling it slightly? I did a rear conversion on my Sonic and I had to loosen it at the e-brake a few turns.. Different setup all together, but just curious.....
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 09:35 AM
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We're the pistons fully in when you installed them, and if so we're they aligned with the pad tabs?

-Matt
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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 09:41 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natesriv View Post
Is the e-brake cable pulling it slightly? I did a rear conversion on my Sonic and I had to loosen it at the e-brake a few turns.. Different setup all together, but just curious.....
I actually followed the procedure for that. I disengaged the retaining clip to release all tension on the central spring to let it unload and then pushed the clip back in place.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
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Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
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Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 09:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
We're the pistons fully in when you installed them, and if so we're they aligned with the pad tabs?
This may be something I didn't do. I did crank them in the best I could (my brake tool sucks) but aligning them to the tabs is likely the problem. I will disassemble and reassemble with that in mind.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
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Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 10:33 AM
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I got one of these from Advance Auto... big time saver on those rear screws..

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Natesriv View Post
I got one of these from Advance Auto... big time saver on those rear screws..
I have the exact same one and it doesn't work worth a damn on our calipers. It's slightly better than a flat screwdriver.

I bought this because I'm tired of this challenge and having tools is better than not: Cartman 21 piece brake service kit

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 12:08 PM
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Dang! That's a good price!
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 12:40 PM
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The key with the "cube" tool is mounting the caliper on the spindle WITHOUT the rotors and pads so you can shove your full weight on the wrench as you turn. The proper tool you can just conveniently twist with the caliper in one hand and the wrench in the other.
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
OK, lubricate the slide pins: Will do.

Lubricate the calipers where the pads drag: Say what now, what now? I'm not sure I follow this part.

Check the brake hoses: Checked. They are SS hoses.
Here's a picture:



RwP
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphP View Post
Here's a picture:

RwP
I've got this kind of caliper lubricant: Permatex 24110 Ultra Disc Brake Caliper Lube, 8 oz.

I assume that this is the kind of "lube" we're talking about.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
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-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 01:45 PM
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and copper grease on the back of the pads to prevent vibration...
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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 04:39 PM
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Channel locks work too.

Are the calipers stock or are they mustang?

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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 04:50 PM Thread Starter
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Channel locks work too.

Are the calipers stock or are they mustang?
They are stock. Apparently from a 94+ MN12.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
They are stock. Apparently from a 94+ MN12.
Did you clearance the calipers?

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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-13-2017, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Did you clearance the calipers?
Absolutely. It won't actually fit without doing that.
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"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RalphP View Post
Here's a picture:



RwP
I get why the slide pins, slide pin housings, and back of the pads, but why lube up the pad mounting tabs and pad mounts??

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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 04:06 PM
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I get why the slide pins, slide pin housings, and back of the pads, but why lube up the pad mounting tabs and pad mounts??
To prevent metal on metal binding/friction.

When I was a kid learning how to do brakes, my dad only ever showed me the pins. And they are the absolute most critical part to lube, but the other contact surfaces are also equally important for the same reason.

The brakes get VERY hot, and having the proper lubricant on the metal to metal contact points will make sure that not only the brakes slide smoothly towards the caliper to stop the car, but also release smoothly and quickly to prevent extra parasitic loss. Since the pads move along the mounting tabs and pad mounts as they compress/release, those have to have lube or they'll stick.
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post #21 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 04:39 PM
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I've never lube the backs of pads, just the slide pins.

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post #22 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 07:24 PM
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One more note On Floating Calipers

Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
I've never lube the backs of pads, just the slide pins.
While proper lubrication is important to the proper operation of the brakes, i would lean towards the e-brake being possibly too tight. If you were able to slide the calipers with the new pads over the rotors, you pushed the piston back enough for the brakes to function without drag. The llack of lubrication is more likely to lead to uneven pad wear than cause dragging also.

Ido recommend however rechecking everything before driving. Some additional notes are below.

No one mentioned it, but any area that requires grease also requires at least a quick attempt at cleaning. A wire brush is best for this and gets of the dust, rust, old grease etc.

After spending a few years running a 7 bay repair shop, i can tell you that poorly prepped brakes are more of a reason for uneven pad wear than bad calipers, though most mechanics will blame the caliper to make more money. At least many calipers come wih brackets and pins and that does solve the issue, and hydraulic parts should be replaced or rebuilt every 2nd or 3rd brake job.

Floating calipers (any caliper with pistons ONLYon one side of the caliper/rotor) are all junk, created and used to save money and ease assembly. All early disc brakes were fixed calipers like the Kelsey Hayes 4 piston type found on 65-67 Mustangs and other Fords. By 1968 the lousy single piston floating caliper was introduced and it is largely unnchanged today.

I also never use brake grease on the back of the pad. Ionly use disc brake quiet. As far as applying grease to the lubrication points, i think its better to grease the inside surface of the caliper where the brake pad mounting tabs ride, rather than directly on the pad tabs. Just brush some into the channel before instanng the pads.
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post #23 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-14-2017, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
I've never lube the backs of pads, just the slide pins.
The lube on the back isn't to lubricate, but to help dampen sound caused by the pads vibrating while braking.

Some speed / rotor / pad / road / etc. combinations can cause some really weird moans ... with nothing wrong.

Some folks also use a silicon pad; there's a harder elastomer that's available; but the main thing is to do something to dampen the sound a bit.

Oh, and also to let the pads slide a small bit on the pistons in case there's any play at all there *grins*

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post #24 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 04:17 PM
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Something to remember with our emergency brakes:

The cable moving around in the breeze can tighten up the calipers, that's what there's a Big-Ass Wire Tie around it and the Cable mount on the Caliper from the factory, holding it together so it won't move sideways.

You have to put that back, or you can easily get dragging calipers.

Our cars have been thru several owners in some cases, and these might be gone; it's worth checking to see if they're there.


If you're not pulling the clip on the Ebrake Adjustment (in the rear middle of the cable), and removing the cables from the caliper, BEFORE you start fucking with the caliper removal, you are really fucking up; and making this a miserable job.

Every time you wiggle the caliper with respect to the cable, the piston will tighten back up; and that's the hardest part or doing these brakes, making the Freaking piston go in.

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post #25 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Something to remember with our emergency brakes:

The cable moving around in the breeze can tighten up the calipers, that's what there's a Big-Ass Wire Tie around it and the Cable mount on the Caliper from the factory, holding it together so it won't move sideways.

You have to put that back, or you can easily get dragging calipers.

Our cars have been thru several owners in some cases, and these might be gone; it's worth checking to see if they're there.


If you're not pulling the clip on the Ebrake Adjustment (in the rear middle of the cable), and removing the cables from the caliper, BEFORE you start fucking with the caliper removal, you are really fucking up; and making this a miserable job.

Every time you wiggle the caliper with respect to the cable, the piston will tighten back up; and that's the hardest part or doing these brakes, making the Freaking piston go in.

Pictures of the setup?

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2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #26 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-15-2017, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Something to remember with our emergency brakes:

The cable moving around in the breeze can tighten up the calipers, that's what there's a Big-Ass Wire Tie around it and the Cable mount on the Caliper from the factory, holding it together so it won't move sideways.

You have to put that back, or you can easily get dragging calipers.

Our cars have been thru several owners in some cases, and these might be gone; it's worth checking to see if they're there.


If you're not pulling the clip on the Ebrake Adjustment (in the rear middle of the cable), and removing the cables from the caliper, BEFORE you start fucking with the caliper removal, you are really fucking up; and making this a miserable job.

Every time you wiggle the caliper with respect to the cable, the piston will tighten back up; and that's the hardest part or doing these brakes, making the Freaking piston go in.

When I replaced my rear calipers only one side had a black zip tie, and it was broke. Should I wire others back up? Were should I mount it too? (I forgot where exactly I pulled it from)

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post #27 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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Problem solved. Matt made the call. The driver's side piston wasn't aligned with the nubs on the back of the pad. The driver's side showed obvious dragging and was the one that was heating up really bad. I fixed that problem.

I also lubed the slide pins. They weren't dry but they weren't very lubricated.

The brake caliper tool set worked like a champ. The piece they list for Ford didn't fit but there was one that worked perfectly (K2 IIRC) and it's hard to imagine ever doing the rear brakes without the kit to screw down the caliper piston.

This was a pretty lively thread for such a dumbass mistake on my part.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
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post #28 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 07:45 PM
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I've always done brake jobs like the above illustration, it has worked flawlessly every time. Quiet, normal operation with no problems. If there is a contact point (other than pad to rotor) I'm lubricating it.
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post #29 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Black_Cat View Post
I've always done brake jobs like the above illustration, it has worked flawlessly every time. Quiet, normal operation with no problems. If there is a contact point (other than pad to rotor) I'm lubricating it.
I generally lube all the contact points too. It seems like a good idea on brakes as well.
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post #30 of 33 (permalink) Old 02-16-2017, 09:07 PM
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Reading this gave me a little motivation to get my butt into gear and fix the [front] brakes on my two rides...
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