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post #1 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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1995 Thunderbird New Guy to Forum

Hello new member here, my name is Dave from S/E Indiana.

My dad has a 95 Thunderbird 4.6 with 14,000 miles. He has offered to sell it to me, I don't want to take advantage of him or hi me. What is the market value of this car. Only thing not original is the battery, car is burgundy, with burgundy cloth interior.

Thanks Dave

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post #2 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 02:50 PM
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I would guess $7,000-8,000. You can always just check Kelly Blue Book for the right price.
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post #3 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 03:04 PM
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Good God! Only 14,000 Miles. Wow. Nice score. Valuing these is difficult especially in mint condition. They're very rare but alas, demand for them isn't that great.

Yea, check KBB for your area. The website is Kelley Blue Book - New and Used Car Price Values, Expert Car Reviews

I ran a quick search for my area and it returned about 2,500 for sale to a private party. Trade in value is even worse at 1,450 to 2,130.

IMHO for a stock car, even in mint condition, it's worth 5,000 max.

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post #4 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 05:08 PM
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I'd say $1500 tops. What kind of shape is the paint in? Interior? Tires? A lot of things factor into the price, but if everything is clean then I'd go with that.

Keeping in mind that you will likely be replacing all the bushings on the car at this point. Just because something is low mileage doesn't mean that they don't deteriorate over time. Along with brake fluid, trans. fluid/filter. Does it puff blue smoke when started or when you first accelerate from a stop?

These are highly engineered precision vehicles, the first step in diagnosing the problem is to strike the suspected offending part sharply and repeatedly with a blunt object, then re-test.
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post #5 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 05:36 PM
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$4,000

That's on the assumption the paint is perfect, and the interior is spotless. If not I'd knock off $1,000 for any paint problem - fade, peeling, scratch, dent or scuff, and another $1,000 if the interior has stains, tears or cracking.
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post #6 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 06:33 PM
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With that low of mileage, I'm willing to bet every piece of rubber in the suspension is rotting/rotted out and in need of replacement.

I inherited a 2002 Crown Victoria from my grandmother in Texas in 2011, 13,500 miles. I had to replace every suspension bushing on the car.

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post #7 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 06:51 PM
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3500. What part of the country is it in. If it's in Florida I will buy it. Lol lol
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post #8 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 07:24 PM
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I'd say $5,500 would be more than fair for it. Considering Mark VIII's go for about $11.5k with roughly the same milage.

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post #9 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies, Kelly Blue book seems to have the car under valued. I realize it's not a highly collectible car but with 14,000 miles I was thinking it would be worth more. Like I said in my first post I'm not wanting to steal the car from my father. We are trying to come up with a fair price. We was both thinking around $9,000 but after searching the Internet these cars don't seem to fetch a whole lot of money. The car is basically still a brand new car.
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post #10 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 08:33 PM
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Thanks for the replies, Kelly Blue book seems to have the car under valued. I realize it's not a highly collectible car but with 14,000 miles I was thinking it would be worth more. Like I said in my first post I'm not wanting to steal the car from my father. We are trying to come up with a fair price. We was both thinking around $9,000 but after searching the Internet these cars don't seem to fetch a whole lot of money. The car is basically still a brand new car.
No, it's not.

The 20 years since the car was built have taken their toll on all the rubber pieces in the suspension, and elsewhere on the car. The underhood rubber may be ok, but it's still 20 years old, and has aged/weathered.

If it was stored in a climate controlled room, it will be minimal, but if it was in a garage that is near outside temperature, or under a carport, it's going to have issues, whether it has 1 mile, 14,000, or 140,000.

The years matter to the rubber, the miles matter to the motor (but not really). The electronics are all 20 years old, cables are more brittle than when new, etc.

I have experience with a "brand new" 10 year old car myself, and I had to put a lot of time into replacing the tires, the hoses, the bushings, etc to get it running quietly and without issue. I had to replace the fuel pump because I didn't get the old gas out of the tank (my grandma passed and the car sat most of a year without being driven and the ethanol gas clogged up the pump), and the car only had 20,000 on it at that point.

Low mileage just means the previous owner didn't drive it. Means nothing for value in my opinion.

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post #11 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 08:57 PM
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what about paint and interior? Honestly I never understood the anxiety about the dried out rubber. Literally the first thing we tell any new owner of these cars to do is replace all the old junk anyway. The good news is with a low mile car there's probably no to little rust on the hardware, parts are original, so you don't have to worry about shade tree hack work.

On top of that paint and interior are what really matter. It costs what? $1,000 to replace all the rubber on these(including tires)? Ever price out a full quality paint job? How about New carpet, headliner, seat covers, and source all the various bezels and plates that careless owners manage to break and gouge to shit?

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post #12 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 09:38 PM
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what about paint and interior? Honestly I never understood the anxiety about the dried out rubber. Literally the first thing we tell any new owner of these cars to do is replace all the old junk anyway. The good news is with a low mile car there's probably no to little rust on the hardware, parts are original, so you don't have to worry about shade tree hack work.

On top of that paint and interior are what really matter. It costs what? $1,000 to replace all the rubber on these(including tires)? Ever price out a full quality paint job? How about New carpet, headliner, seat covers, and source all the various bezels and plates that careless owners manage to break and gouge to shit?
I get that, I'm just trying to shatter the "barn find" illusion that the car hasn't aged just because it wasn't driven much.

My 130,000 mile 1997 has been pretty easy to work on, because it's not all rusted up. The paint is shot, and that lowered it's value to me, just as buying a car with good paint and interior would have a lower value if I could see I have to spend another chunk of money and time on it to bring it up to driving condition.

Not saying the car is worthless, or it's a $1000 car or anything. Not having looked at it but assuming it's clean, cared for, and had been well maintained (oil changed every 3 months so it doesn't sludge up, etc) then I'd put it in the $3-5000 category. There's a guy in Eau Claire, WI selling a 70K 1996 Thunderbird for $13,000, and it'll never sell. My guess is he doesn't really want to sell it, but that's just insane. I love these cars as much as anyone here, but I just can't see spending that much on one. The guy selling his big bore Mach1 engine'd 32V for $2500 is I think a very fair price, and I'd buy that much faster than buying a bone stock one with low miles. It's closer to what I personally would want out of a car.

Since this guy is buying one from a family member, and doesn't want to screw them out of a nice car, I'd say give them $3000 or so and enjoy the car.

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post #13 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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The car has been keep in a garage at home and kept covered when not driven. The car has not sat for 20 years unused. It is run and driven a few miles about once a month. Paint and interior is as nice as the day it left the showroom. I must disagree that it's a $3000 car and wouldn't insult my father with an offer that low. I agree that a $1000 might be spent on tires and hoses etc. if I buy the car it will be driven and not left setting any longer. These cars aren't collectible cars and I don't see them ass ever being collectible. I'm kind of thinking a fair value for the car would be closer to $6000.
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post #14 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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I'd say $1500 tops. What kind of shape is the paint in? Interior? Tires? A lot of things factor into the price, but if everything is clean then I'd go with that.

Keeping in mind that you will likely be replacing all the bushings on the car at this point. Just because something is low mileage doesn't mean that they don't deteriorate over time. Along with brake fluid, trans. fluid/filter. Does it puff blue smoke when started or when you first accelerate from a stop?
1500, I want some of what your smoking . This car looks like the day it rolled of the showroom floor. I could replace all the guilds, tires, hoses etc for a $1000 and drive it pretty much trouble free for years. If that all these cars are worth why the following, seems like there's no reason to put money in them if they have a $1500 value with basically no mile. No smoke on startup, the car has been started and driven short distances once a month, it was just put away and forgotten.
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post #15 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
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3500. What part of the country is it in. If it's in Florida I will buy it. Lol lol
Car is in West Virginia.
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post #16 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 10:56 PM Thread Starter
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I get that, I'm just trying to shatter the "barn find" illusion that the car hasn't aged just because it wasn't driven much.

My 130,000 mile 1997 has been pretty easy to work on, because it's not all rusted up. The paint is shot, and that lowered it's value to me, just as buying a car with good paint and interior would have a lower value if I could see I have to spend another chunk of money and time on it to bring it up to driving condition.

Not saying the car is worthless, or it's a $1000 car or anything. Not having looked at it but assuming it's clean, cared for, and had been well maintained (oil changed every 3 months so it doesn't sludge up, etc) then I'd put it in the $3-5000 category. There's a guy in Eau Claire, WI selling a 70K 1996 Thunderbird for $13,000, and it'll never sell. My guess is he doesn't really want to sell it, but that's just insane. I love these cars as much as anyone here, but I just can't see spending that much on one. The guy selling his big bore Mach1 engine'd 32V for $2500 is I think a very fair price, and I'd buy that much faster than buying a bone stock one with low miles. It's closer to what I personally would want out of a car.

Since this guy is buying one from a family member, and doesn't want to screw them out of a nice car, I'd say give them $3000 or so and enjoy the car.
Not trying to turn this into a wizzing match but you have me confused. In my other post you said the car is only worth $1500, then here you say $3000 to $5000 here. Big difference on your opinion of what the car might be worth. I'm not here trying to sell the car I'm only trying to get an idea of what others feel the car is worth. If all these cars are worth with 14,000 original miles on them is $1500 why would anyone own one other than to drive the wheels off them then junk it. I'm not totally clueless when it come to classic cars. I've played with them for 40 years and own a 55 Chevy 2 door hardtop, 54 F100, and a 49 Dodge Wayfarer Roadster. I don't or didn't know what the value was on the mid 90s Thunderbirds with the miles and description I have provided of the car. I looked the car up on KBB and it seems undervalued that's the reason I can here to try and educate myself about the car and the true values of these Thunderbirds

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post #17 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 11:19 PM
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I get that, I'm just trying to shatter the "barn find" illusion that the car hasn't aged just because it wasn't driven much.

My 130,000 mile 1997 has been pretty easy to work on, because it's not all rusted up. The paint is shot, and that lowered it's value to me, just as buying a car with good paint and interior would have a lower value if I could see I have to spend another chunk of money and time on it to bring it up to driving condition.

Not saying the car is worthless, or it's a $1000 car or anything. Not having looked at it but assuming it's clean, cared for, and had been well maintained (oil changed every 3 months so it doesn't sludge up, etc) then I'd put it in the $3-5000 category. There's a guy in Eau Claire, WI selling a 70K 1996 Thunderbird for $13,000, and it'll never sell. My guess is he doesn't really want to sell it, but that's just insane. I love these cars as much as anyone here, but I just can't see spending that much on one. The guy selling his big bore Mach1 engine'd 32V for $2500 is I think a very fair price, and I'd buy that much faster than buying a bone stock one with low miles. It's closer to what I personally would want out of a car.

Since this guy is buying one from a family member, and doesn't want to screw them out of a nice car, I'd say give them $3000 or so and enjoy the car.
There's a vast difference there though, 70k miles in Eau Claire may as well be 170,000 miles. It's probably got a lot of rust underneath and 70k miles is frankly the point where these cars start falling apart. I just find it very hard to put a price on great factory paint and body that's survived the decades unscathed, and no repaint at $3k is going to cover fixing old paint on a cheaper high mile car, not without a lot of cut corners.

There are a lot of overrated barn finds, I'll give you that, but there's literal barn finds that are actually in a barn - never driven, but exposed to the damp dank dusty elements, wild animals, and sharp barn things, all the while acquiring the musk of cow shit - and there's so-called barn finds that simply never left the suburban garage.

I think David is nuts for selling the DOHC that cheap. I wouldn't take less than $7k for my also Mach 1 swapped MN12, and mine doesn't even have the big bore, which alone probably cost a substantial portion of his asking price.
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post #18 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 11:27 PM
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I'd knock off $1,000 off whatever the offer you're thinking of due to that poorly placed ugly spoiler

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post #19 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-06-2016, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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I'd knock off $1,000 off whatever the offer you're thinking of due to that poorly placed ugly spoiler
Spoiler doesn't do anything for the car, dad had the dealer install it when he bought the car. He never was happy with it. Although I can remove and paint the deck lid for far less than a $1000.
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post #20 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 07:10 AM Thread Starter
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Rodeo Joe, why was the pictures removed, did I break some sort of rule. If I did I'm sorry wasn't intentional.

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post #21 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 07:12 AM
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Dave,

I merged your 2 threads to keep the reading simple, but your pictures got lost. I apologize for the mishap, would you mind posting them up again.

Thanks,

Joe

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post #22 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 07:21 AM Thread Starter
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Dave,

I merged your 2 threads to keep the reading simple, but your pictures got lost. I apologize for the mishap, would you mind posting them up again.

Thanks,

Joe
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I understand, thanks for combining the threads, makes things less confusing.

Dave

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post #23 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 07:25 AM Thread Starter
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post #24 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 07:36 AM
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Any item is worth what a buyer is willing to pay for it, and a seller is willing to let it go for. If you are buying a 14K mile 2-year old Honda Accord, it is easy to price because there are literally thousands of them for sale, and if you don't like one person's price, you can go buy another one. The problem with this car is there isn't another one to compare it to. So if it is worth $6K to you, and if your father will let it go for $6K, then it is worth $6K. What you are really asking here is what other enthusiasts would pay for the same car. The problem with that is most of us on here already have at least one and sometimes several MN12s, so we don't really need that car, and given that these cars aren't collectible, there aren't very many people on here who have kept their car low mileage and bone stock, so to those people, they look at it and say it will need a PI top end, and 3.73s, and a 3000rpm stall converter, and a j-mod, and wheels and tires, and a stereo, etc, and if I am replacing all those components, I might as well get something higher mileage since it will be a lot cheaper. Personally, I would probably only pay about $3K for that car. I know there are other people who will pay more, and some who will pay less, but for all the reasons above, that would be the price I would buy it. That doesn't necessarily mean $6K is unreasonable or overpaying, just that it isn't worth that to anyone who has yet responded to this thread.
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post #25 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 07:44 AM
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I agree with $6000 being fair. 95's are usually loaded with options, but at a glance, it appears that it may not have as many as some. I only see three pics, are there more?

I would put a can of Seafoam in the tank and take it out on the hwy. Short drives are good for forming condensation in the motor and exhaust system. Sounds like it needs some carbon blown out!

In for more pics. Good luck with it!

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post #26 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 07:58 AM
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Earlier this year I purchased a 96 Cougar with 18,000 miles all original garage kept, leather interior in great shape. Since purchase I did have to rebuild the front suspension and replace some bushing in the rear suspension. The original all plastic intake manifold failed and required replacement. If you do that yourself it is still several hundred dollars. I paid $3800 and thought I had found a great deal. It turned into a lot of work. Good luck with your purchase.
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post #27 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 08:32 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the insight fellas, I agree some rubber parts could be an issue and I can do all the work myself. I didn't realize there was intake issues with these cars, this car has the 4.6 engine. What is the problem with the intakes.
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post #28 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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The original all plastic intake manifold failed and required replacement. If you do that yourself it is still several hundred dollars. I paid $3800 and thought I had found a great deal. It turned into a lot of work. Good luck with your purchase.
Ok, I just done a quick Google search and see the intake issue was on the 96 & 97 models. This car is a 95 so that should apply to this car.

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post #29 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 09:37 AM
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1500, I want some of what your smoking . This car looks like the day it rolled of the showroom floor. I could replace all the guilds, tires, hoses etc for a $1000 and drive it pretty much trouble free for years. If that all these cars are worth why the following, seems like there's no reason to put money in them if they have a $1500 value with basically no mile. No smoke on startup, the car has been started and driven short distances once a month, it was just put away and forgotten.
There's a following because they are an excellent chassis with very good handling characteristics. They're comfortable for a long distance drive while still having the ability to go around corners very well. They are not without their issues, door hinges, small brakes, tendency to warp the rotors due to the small brakes, and lack of power stock being some of them. But having driven many different cars, including Mustang GT's of a similar generation, they are excellent cars. My enjoyment of them doesn't give them any extra actual value though. They give me warm fuzzies inside, but that means nothing in the real world.

As you said, they're not collectible. They're hard to get performance parts for if that's your desire, the year you have is known to have valve guide leakage issues, etc.

If you want to pay $6000 for a 21 year old car just because it's got low mileage, that's your money and your prerogative. I paid $3000 for one with no rust, faded paint, a PI swap, and lots of the suspension and driveline mods I'd have done myself and I feel I got a great deal. There's a guy with a 32V Mach 1 motor swapped for sale for $2500 which I think is also a great deal. Low mileage being what it is, I don't think $6000 is a good deal on it, but that's my opinion. I'm not going to bash the car, they're very nice and I know you'll enjoy it. Just not what I'd pay for it.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #30 of 57 (permalink) Old 11-07-2016, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Branded View Post
Ok, I just done a quick Google search and see the intake issue was on the 96 & 97 models. This car is a 95 so that should apply to this car.

Dave
Correct, the 94/95 intake never fails, but the EGR ports do get clogged up frequently. The 96/97 setup is better for performance and doesn't have the EGR problem, but eventually the manifolds themselves crack and fail.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90SC 5-speed, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, soon to be transplanted into...
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-70 Torino GT Fastback project car. Needs EFI and a manual trans, but I'm not sure what motor to go with yet.
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