Motorcraft vs Other Brand Oil Filters - Page 2 - TCCoA Forums

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post #31 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-14-2014, 08:52 AM
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My previous car was a 2004 Grand Marquis with a PI 4.6. Not long after bought it in 2011, I was in a hurry and took it to Wally World for an oil change. After that, every time I started it up, I heard a noise I would have described as the lifters clattering on a pushrod motor. When I popped the hood to investigate, there was the bright orange Fram filter. I pulled it out and replaced it with a Motorcraft, and the lifter noise was gone.

Now whether or not that noise is causing any engine wear, I don't know.

When I was in college, I had a 1995 T-Bird with a 4.6 that had 135,000 miles on it when I bought it. I was always late with oil changes, it would burn oil and the level would drop until the oil pressure flatlined for a second going around corners, I'd run too high of a viscosity in her (I didn't know any better at the time)...I did all kinds of mean things to that poor little 4.6, and when I sold that car with 235,000 miles on her five years later, the engine still ran just as strong as the day she rolled off the showroom floor. Killing a 4.6L motor is kinda hard to do. That's why I've bought 3 more cars with that same model engine since I got rid of the first T-Bird.
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post #32 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-14-2014, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Purolater Classic L24651 Cut open

No busted pleats or loose end-caps.







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post #33 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-14-2014, 10:01 PM
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i actually cant run anything but motorcraft or purolator (which Ive herd makes motorcraft) on my car. she knocks like hell even on WIX. and even with the motorcraft if she sits over the weekend i get a few seconds of knocking on monday morning.

drained and changed quite a few Frams on engines at wallyworld that were completely dry when i removed them after sitting a couple min. camery 2200 engines come to mind because of the filter being mounted facing down. you can take them off the motor after a half hour without a drop running down the block >.>

Ive cut enough Frams open too know their horribly cheep, made of nothing but cellulose and glue, no backflow, or bypass valves...

i installed enough frams to know they had problems with threads on around 1% of the filters we got in bulk. we even had a box of them that kept blowing off the cars because the threads weren't tapped properly...

only thing they have going for them is the sandpaper coating on the outside for grip.

otherwise save your motor and buy something with more folds of filter media preferably in some material better then cardboard, make sure it has the drainback and bypass valves and you should be ok.

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post #34 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-15-2014, 01:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderChecken
Purolater Classic L24651 Cut open

Is that black rubber ring an anti-drain back valve, or does that filter not have one?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nail one
i get a few seconds of knocking on monday morning.
My completely stock 4.6 Romeo engine will knock (main bearing(s)) for about 2-3 seconds right when it starts up sometimes after an oil change, or if it sits for a number of days. Doesn't do it every time after an oil change, or after it has been sitting. Just every once in a while.

I use the MotorCraft filter, and it has always done this (once in a while) ever since I've owned it. I've put about 85k on the engine. Thinking of giving the NAPA Gold (WIX) filter a try. Hoping maybe it will stop the knock after the cars been sitting a while, but it wouldn't make any difference after an oil change. The only way to eliminate the knock, other than a rebuild/replacement, would be to install a remote filter, and a pre-oiling system.

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post #35 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-15-2014, 04:23 AM Thread Starter
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Yes it should have the black seal sets on top of it.This one has 83 pleats as well the most I have seen so far.

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post #36 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-15-2014, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushtonracing View Post
My completely stock 4.6 Romeo engine will knock (main bearing(s)) for about 2-3 seconds right when it starts up sometimes after an oil change, or if it sits for a number of days. Doesn't do it every time after an oil change, or after it has been sitting. Just every once in a while.

I use the MotorCraft filter, and it has always done this (once in a while) ever since I've owned it. I've put about 85k on the engine. Thinking of giving the NAPA Gold (WIX) filter a try. Hoping maybe it will stop the knock after the cars been sitting a while, but it wouldn't make any difference after an oil change. The only way to eliminate the knock, other than a rebuild/replacement, would be to install a remote filter, and a pre-oiling system.
In those instances when the car has been sitting dormant or you've just done an oil change, you can use the "clear flood mode" to circulate some oil before firing the engine. Press the throttle ALL the way open, turn the key to the "START" position, let the engine crank for a few seconds, release the key, then release the throttle. After that, just start the engine normally. Clear flood mode shuts off the injectors and allows you to crank the engine without introducing any fuel.

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post #37 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-15-2014, 01:38 PM
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yep, that's what i do when i change my oil, works great.

and my filter relocation helped a bit, but i'm sure most of the difference is that i mounted my filters vertical instead of horizontal like on the engine was. at least i can now prime my filters. for the most part my knocks are gone, but like i said, when she sits a while over the weekend if you dont crank it a bit beforehand their will be a split second noise.

pretty sure the damage was done, when i got her their was a ACdelco filter on.... knocked right their on the dealership lot for like 10 seconds. these people knew i was coming and im not about to think they weren't smart enough to send someone out to start her beforehand. the motor was slightly warm already.

who knows what the original owner was running for the first 118k but since their is a knock, most likely frams or whatever cheep junk came at the local jiffylube.

i know she was PACKED with sludge. i didn't remove the valve covers, but i could see it thought the fill cap, and the first Mobil1 change i performed burned horribly and drained like brown chunky dek-a-cake icing... only took 4 quarts too, which was worrying. changed the filter at 500 miles and it was packed with turds. had to add 2 quarts at 1500, changed it all at 2k for some syn blend. next couple oil changes were still pretty filthy, but shes spotless nowadays and takes a good healthy 7 quarts.

oh and one thing i was going to mention about frams was those ecotec chevy engines with the internal filters. i used to see those completely collapsed into the filter cap constantly. and i noticed they are slightly taller then the OE ACdelco filters for the engine so when you tighten down the cap it crushes the pleats slightly.

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post #38 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderChecken
Yes it should have the black seal sets on top of it.This one has 83 pleats as well the most I have seen so far.
So what'ya think? Which is the better filter. Purolator, or the MotorCraft?


Quote:
Originally Posted by racecougar View Post
In those instances when the car has been sitting dormant or you've just done an oil change, you can use the "clear flood mode" to circulate some oil before firing the engine. Press the throttle ALL the way open, turn the key to the "START" position, let the engine crank for a few seconds, release the key, then release the throttle. After that, just start the engine normally. Clear flood mode shuts off the injectors and allows you to crank the engine without introducing any fuel.
That's a good idea. I never thought of using the clear flood mode. I have removed the fuel pump fuse, and cranked the engine. When I did it still knocked a little. Maybe I didn't crank it long enough.

Pressing the throttle to the floor is simple. And simple is usually a good thing.

Thanks for the advice.

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post #39 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 03:05 AM Thread Starter
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Imo Purolator more pleats . But the MC seams to have a better ADBV.

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post #40 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderChecken View Post
Imo Purolator more pleats . But the MC seams to have a better ADBV.
That's what I was thinking too.

#1) IMO, the Amsoil filter is the best. With its synthetic filter media, coil spring, silicone ADBV, by pass valve, and beefy canister construction. Their products are designed, and manufactured specifically for high performance applications. I have used Amsoil synthetic engine oil since the late 70's. You can be sure that if, and when, I ever build another hi-po car, there will be no compromise.

#2,) The Wix filter like the Napa Gold.

#3.) The Purolator. More pleats, giving more filtering surface area. A no nonsense filter element construction. And, it does have an ADBV.

#4.) A close fourth to the Purolator is the MotorCraft.

And this is what will happen if you change his oil, and use a Fram filter...



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post #41 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 03:23 PM
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I'd rather sift my oil through a used shop rag then spin a fram filter onto my car. I always use Wix, Napa gold or motorcraft filters on all of my vehicles.

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post #42 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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Amsoil have never heard to much about them , but what I have heard and read good products. And most are right the "orange can" is a oil soaked cardboard mess. But there is a lot of folks that claim that the FRAM top of the line filters are some of the best there is and even the orange bomb . They can have them . The PUR's and MC's are having some big issues with blown out & torn media people have been complaining and PUR has been sending out PPRP for the filter to be returned to QC . I have a case of golds that I received a good price on so going that route for awhile . Looking forward to cutting and inspecting them for each ride . 2.18 "Sabata"

Opened up my case of GOLD's and looks like they have moved the SBPV to the bottom. Might have to sacrifice this one to fine out more.


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post #43 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-16-2014, 07:18 PM
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I have been told by more than one parts store manager that Wix is one of the better filters on the market. The same managers told me that after attending seminars on oil filters that they would never buy and use another Fram filter...never! Just thought I would throw that out there.

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post #44 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 08:22 AM
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I've been using Motorcraft on the Cougar, and Wix on the Dakota. Turns out they both have identical threads for the center, and gasket mounting surfaces - I MAY be going to Wix on both, with the FL1A (?) sized filter.

One thing I do on a change is to preload the oil filter with oil. Why, yes, I CAN get the filter on the Cougar without spilling it if I'm careful ... new motor mounts help a lot.

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post #45 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderChecken View Post
Amsoil have never heard to much about them , but what I have heard and read good products. And most are right the "orange can" is a oil soaked cardboard mess. But there is a lot of folks that claim that the FRAM top of the line filters are some of the best there is and even the orange bomb . They can have them . The PUR's and MC's are having some big issues with blown out & torn media people have been complaining and PUR has been sending out PPRP for the filter to be returned to QC . I have a case of golds that I received a good price on so going that route for awhile . Looking forward to cutting and inspecting them for each ride . 2.18 "Sabata"

Opened up my case of GOLD's and looks like they have moved the SBPV to the bottom. Might have to sacrifice this one to fine out more.

The Napa Gold oil filters are made by WIX, actually says it on the back of the box and Napa oil is Vavoline.

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post #46 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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Yes I know very well that NAPA's are a good WIX. And MC made by PUR.

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post #47 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-17-2014, 06:32 PM
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Way back when lol. Was on the fram band wagon. After a few internet searches and a few cut open filters. Motorcraft or ford racing filters since. Ford even had a TSB on this. If engine has a start up tick/knock or oil pressure issues , look to see if there is a fram there.

edited
Just looked for the TSB , been a few years. The original one that said look for a fram is gone. And has been reworded lol.
Check the type of oil filter installed on the vehicle. A dirty or clogged filter may cause a pressure drop. Look for aftermarket brands not recognized in the market or a production filter that has gone beyond the standard Ford recommended change interval.

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post #48 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 12:13 PM
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Frahm probably paid Ford to not use their name, lol.

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post #49 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 02:13 PM
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Bought a Napa Gold filter today. It was $6.70 here at Dodge City.

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post #50 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rushtonracing View Post
Bought a Napa Gold filter today. It was $6.70 here at Dodge City.
Just curious is the SBPV on the top or bottom ?

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post #51 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-18-2014, 08:33 PM
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Ford Racing filters



I use Racing filters. mostly above $10.00each.
blended oil (20w50)

I cooked an engine with a cheep filter.

My engine builder said. Wix Gold or better. NO FRAM!

A $10.00 filter is cheep insurance on a $3000.00 engine.
that's with factory parts.


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post #52 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-19-2014, 02:11 AM Thread Starter
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I use Racing filters. mostly above $10.00each.
blended oil (20w50)

I cooked an engine with a cheep filter.

My engine builder said. Wix Gold or better. NO FRAM!

A $10.00 filter is cheep insurance on a $3000.00 engine.
that's with factory parts.

Exactly right Paul.

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post #53 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderChecken View Post
Just curious is the SBPV on the top or bottom ?
It's on the top of the filter. Opposite the base plate.

To be clear, because I'm not sure what one would call the top and bottom of an oil filter, here is a photo showing the bypass valve down at the, ah, top of the Napa Gold. When purchased I said, "I have a 95 Ford Thunderbird lx, with a 4.6, and would like a Napa Gold oil filter". This is what he gave me, Napa# 1372.

This is opposite where the bypass valve is in the photo of the filter you posted. So I'm wondering if it makes any difference, and what would be the OEM location? Or, perhaps the filter originally installed at the factor did not have a bypass valve.

[IMG][/IMG]

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post #54 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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Looks the same to me. NAPA# 1372 here. I have found out that on some models for the gold the valve is in the bottom so its good to go.

I looked at all the 12 I have and they are all the same.

Here is the MC to the GLD .


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post #55 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 01:40 PM
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Anybody else using the K&N oil filters? I've used them the last few changes on my '97 with no issues. I did some internet research before switching to them, and the feedback was positive.

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post #56 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderChecken View Post
Looks the same to me. NAPA# 1372 here. I have found out that on some models for the gold the valve is in the bottom so its good to go.

I looked at all the 12 I have and they are all the same.
Yeah, I don't think it makes any difference.

So now I'm thinking how that valve actually works to bypass the filter yet still allowing oil into the engine. It must open a path for the oil to go from the outer part of the filter directly to the inner outlet part without going through the filter element.

When the filter is working properly, the valve is closed, but if the element is blocked pressure in the outer chamber opens the valve.

Or, perhaps I have that backwards, and a lack of pressure in the inner chamber "sucks" the valve open when it drops below a certain level. Technically, there would be a difference in design of the spring/valve configuration. But, six of one, half a dozen of another. If there is a differential in pressure between the two chambers the valve moves.

The salesman at the parts store showed me a list of features on his computer screen, and it said the valve is calibrated at 16 lbs.

IIRC, the book says the operating pressure of the stock engine is 20 psi..

That seems low to me. I wonder what an actual gauge would read.

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post #57 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Here is the specs I have on the gold/wix.

Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Plets 57
Height: 2.577
Outer Diameter Top: 2.685
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 20X1.5 MM
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: 8-11
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=15/22
Burst Pressure-PSI: 300
Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21"

Mike personally I for one have not heard very much on the K&N , Here is a sales pitch from MC comparing to the KN.

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post #58 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-20-2014, 03:33 PM
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ThunderChecken,

Thanks, that illustration is helpful. Although I have had no issues with the K&N, and appreciate the convenience of the 1" nut on the end, it is expensive and clearly not better than the Motorcraft. I will likely switch back when I next buy a filter.

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post #59 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
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Most welcome Mike.

Guy's if you ever need to get a cheap filter in a pinch the Advance Auto"s Drivework's is made very well, This is the thickest can I have yet to cut. Not sure about the filter media but time will tell.
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post #60 of 244 (permalink) Old 03-27-2014, 11:10 AM
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ThunderChecken,

Thanks, that illustration is helpful. Although I have had no issues with the K&N, and appreciate the convenience of the 1" nut on the end, it is expensive and clearly not better than the Motorcraft. I will likely switch back when I next buy a filter.
Mike, I am using the K&N filter now and thanks to Darren's info, I will be switching to the Wix Gold on my next oil change, I had no issues with the K&N, Just the price
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