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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-09-2017, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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Bad CCRM?

I have a 97 LX 4.6 with a intermittent dead spot on accelerating. I've checked the fuel pump pressure(OTC gauge) 30-35 idle, 40 @ 2000rpm, holds vacuum when shut down for more than 3min. no fuel in regulator vacuum line. I can run up to 4000 rpm in first gear with out any hint of trouble, but slow to idle and give it gas slowly it will die then catch fire and accelerate. I have done all the tests this forum has recommended. Maf ,TPS,EGR,ICS,etc. I'm down to the CCRM but I need to know if anybody has had this intermittent problem and replacing the CCRM fixed it.
This car is completely stock. When cruising 65mph no hint of trouble, smooth shifting, smooth idle. Help!

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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-09-2017, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Just to add some info:
No codes,
Fuel filter changed 2mo. ago
Cleaned MAF,
Cleaned EGR and checked for leakdown
Checked injectors, all OK,
Coils were replaced 6mo. ago,
Wires & plugs replaced 6mo. ago,
This just started 4 days ago.

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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-09-2017, 06:45 PM
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The CCRM is just a box of relays. IIRC, it has relays for the engine cooling fan, AC clutch, fuel pump and powertrain control module (PCM).
What are you expecting it to do wrong that would cause this hesitation ONLY when you are experiencing hesitation off the line?
1) An intermittent cut of the fuel pump would cause a loss of fuel pressure. That could cause a stutter but that's not RPM driven (it would happen randomly)
2) A cut of power to the PCM/ECU would cause more drivability issues than what you describe.

---
If I had to put my CarTalk hat on (it's a slow day at the office), I would guess the following:
1) EPC solenoid and Pressure Regulation Valve (PRV) in your 4r70w transmission. IIRC, hesitation before actually accelerating the first time you shift from Park to Drive was a symptom of a worn pressure regulator valve. While you're in there, you can always do a JMOD (just don't go nuts on the holes or the shifting can be too harsh for a DD. There are dozens of threads here about doing the work and it can be done by putting the car on jackstands and dropping the transmission pan to remove the valve body. You can do this even with 0 experience in a few hours (I did).

2) You say you have addressed all the issues but here you are claiming you cleaned the MAF (didn't replace it). I know from experience that with 100K mi on a MAF, no amount of cleaning can fix a MAF that is giving bad airflow info to the ECU; in my car, this resulting in a bunch of bucking/surging under partial throttle while tootling around in the paddock (not at WOT or cruising). If this was the issue, I would expect bucking more than "dead spots."


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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-09-2017, 07:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info. I will check out the trans... now that you have mentioned it, it does seem to cut out at a shift point. I think you hit the nail on the head about the MAF... no bucking at anytime just when you would expect it to shift.... but why would it cut out if I'm staying I 1st gear and accelerating slowly to about 4000rpm's. The car runs great other than this problem.
Thanks.

I haven't had any light codes

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Last edited by saltonseabird; 05-09-2017 at 07:18 PM.
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-11-2017, 01:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saltonseabird View Post
Thanks for the info. I will check out the trans... now that you have mentioned it, it does seem to cut out at a shift point. I think you hit the nail on the head about the MAF... no bucking at anytime just when you would expect it to shift.... but why would it cut out if I'm staying I 1st gear and accelerating slowly to about 4000rpm's. The car runs great other than this problem.
Thanks.

I haven't had any light codes
You have to explain what you mean by "dieing" and "cutting out".
Does the engine actually misfire or stumble or is acceleration just feel flat?

I actually don't know much about how auto transmissions work; I only got as far as the valve body modding in my transmission as I swapped it for a manual after my first race. This writeup has a TON more info that will explain how the transmission works and may be misbehaving.
TCCoA Tech Articles

I have another idea after re-reading the stuff you replaced. Another way the car can experience hesitation/issues is if your O2 sensors are going out. The o2 sensors on the tbird are narrowband so they are calibrated to only report one of three conditions: lean, rich, or stoich (ideal mix).
At normal acceleration (which is called closed loop operation), the tbird ECU relies on this data + the MAF data to decide how much fuel to inject. If the O2 sensors aren't giving good data and saying that the car is actually lean when its actually at stoich or rich (and NB02 sensors usually go to shit ~100Kmi in my experience), the car might inject too much fuel for the current airflow and bog down. O2 sensors can also go bad without being nice enough to report this via OBD2.

At WOT, the car runs open loop which means it ignores the O2 data and just uses the MAF and RPM to calculate load and inject the right amount of fuel based on a preprogrammed table.


to calculate load

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-11-2017, 09:56 AM Thread Starter
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I thank you all for helping me with this problem. I think I was fueled(pun intended) into thinking it was anything but the fuel pump..That said, yesterday I went to the store 4mi away and I couldn't keep a even gas peddle at all, run, quit, run, quit, etc. I'm in the process of replacing the fuel pump.
I will keep in touch on the result.
.........................
I have changed out the fuel pump and problem solved. I had a extra pump left over from a pump change on my '92 5.0 LX because I had the same symptoms with that car but here's the kicker....I didn't need a new pump the problem was the 2" connector hose that replaces the stock baffle had rotted out because of the ethanol enhanced gas that CA. added to the gas many years before other states....The previous owner must have had the pump replaced and the Mech used a braded hose like you would find on a VW.
By the way I changed the pump through the back seat floor..Easy-peasy! 2hrs.

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Last edited by saltonseabird; 05-11-2017 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Solved
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-11-2017, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Thanks to Rayo

Thanks to Rayo for posting the link for pictures on how to change out a fuel pump.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-11-2017, 05:15 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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I must have missed that link; you cut a hole in the rear pan, and do it from the top, eh?

My Contour is one of the rare ones with a hole big enough to do it that way; there's no hole in an MN12.


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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-12-2017, 08:18 AM
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That's the way I did my pump also, thru the rear seat pan, no taking the tank out, did it that way after I had found a link on this site showing exactly where to cut, used my die-cutter, just don't dig down too deep, just enough to get thru that pan.............
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