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post #1 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 12:26 AM Thread Starter
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what's needed for 300 rwhp

Like it states I was wondering what would be required to get 300 rwhp on a NA build? It would be going in a 95 T-Bird

This is not something that is gonna happen in the next lil bit but eventually I would like to try to reach this goal...

I know that otherthings would have to be looked at first but i would kinda like to start planning this out,

Also not looking to do a 32v swap maybe explorer swap
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post #2 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 12:36 AM
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i cant really tell u personaly but there is a book i have that is called "how to build max-performance ..4.6 liter ford engines"...it covers 4.6L & 5.4L 2,3 and 4 valve head and intake
-camshafts & headers
-big-bore & stroker short blocks
-blowers, turbos, and nitrous
they have even successful packages in the book. witch is form a packages that has 345 hp and 355 tq(2v 96-04 n/a) to 1500 hp 1000 tq 32v (blown or turboed) custom built engines
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post #3 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 12:47 AM
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ported heads, cams, exhaust, tune, compression, air, fuel, spark, RPMs, etc, etc, etc

there are a million threads on this that have never materialized that you can read up on

hit that search button buddy!
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post #4 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 12:56 AM
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or that ^
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post #5 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 05:51 AM
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how deep is your pockets? lotsa info in search on this subject. others will prob chime in though.
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post #6 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 07:13 AM
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this is MY build:
DSS racing short block with 10cc pistons and .20 over $3,000
fox lake stage 2 heads, comp stage 2 cams $2,500
pi intake with c&l plenum and 75mm t/b $700
2800 stall converter $800
kooks headers, catless, 2.5 duals $1700
3.27 posi rear, built trans by darrin $1200
and tuned on blown head gaskets (consumed 1 gallon of antifreeze per 200 miles) made 272 rwhp and 292 rwtq, and ran 13.7 at 99.9 mph 1/4 time



new setup with unk numbers: NEW HEAD GASKETS!!!! $200 port matched bullitt intake $1500 , 3600 tripple disk circle d converter $1000, 3.55 posi rear $400, ARP everything $400, and vortec with 15 psi $1500

5.4 32 valve monster being built
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post #7 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 07:16 AM
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if i could do it all over again, i would do a 3 or 4 valve build, don't blow the money like i did on a 2 valve......

5.4 32 valve monster being built
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post #8 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by firescout211 View Post
if i could do it all over again, i would do a 3 or 4 valve build, don't blow the money like i did on a 2 valve......
Agreed. The 2V will make good power, but if I had my identical setup with a 32V head instead of my 2Vs, I'd probably be making 370-380 at the wheels with the Ford Racing cam set for the DOHC engine.

If I had headers on my car now, it would make 300 RWHP, but they are awaiting install. I'm currently making around 270, but the stock manifolds are killing me.

Maybe the new Trick Flow heads will make a 2V more of a viable option, but still. Just get a DOHC longblock, slap a Vortech on it with 6 PSI worth of boost, and you're done.

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post #9 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firescout211 View Post
this is MY build:
DSS racing short block with 10cc pistons and .20 over $3,000
fox lake stage 2 heads, comp stage 2 cams $2,500
pi intake with c&l plenum and 75mm t/b $700
2800 stall converter $800
kooks headers, catless, 2.5 duals $1700
3.27 posi rear, built trans by darrin $1200
and tuned on blown head gaskets (consumed 1 gallon of antifreeze per 200 miles) made 272 rwhp and 292 rwtq, and ran 13.7 at 99.9 mph 1/4 time

New setup with unk numbers: NEW HEAD GASKETS!!!! $200 port matched bullitt intake $1500 , 3600 tripple disk circle d converter $1000, 3.55 posi rear $400, ARP everything $400, and vortec with 15 psi $150

If i could do it all over again, i would do a 3 or 4 valve build, don't blow the money like i did on a 2 valve......
You needd 3.73's or 4.10's.

Wait until you can get your hands on the new TrickFlow 2V heads. They'll be worth the wait.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto.
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post #10 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 02:15 PM
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wait till the trick flows come out? no way! i've spent wwaaayyyy too much money on the ehads i have now and my intake is custom matched to my current set up, thanks though. i would go with a larger rear if i did not have a blower. thunderbirds are unique in that they are luxury performance. i am keeping the car streetable. if i wanted a 1/4 car, i would have built a mustang.

5.4 32 valve monster being built
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post #11 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 03:51 PM
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lol. 3.73's are streetable even with a blower.

I should have clarified. The reference to the TrickFlow heads was for the original poster, Mr. transam396, who has his F150 listed in his profile instead of his Tbird and who's screen name reflects a GM product, go figure?

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto.

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 01-13-2009 at 03:56 PM.
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post #12 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 03:55 PM
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if i wanted a 1/4 car, i would have built a mustang.
why?
everyone else and their brother has a stang.

sometimes its good being different.
when it comes to actually building a real race car, it really doesn't matter what car you go with, it all costs lots of money.

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post #13 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 07:10 PM
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Well, NA you would need 4.10's or 4.30's for the gears, but I went with the 3.73's to leave the door open for a Vortech. If you get a stout 2V built then throw some boost at it, the 3.73's would be perfect for the MPH you'd cut across the line in 3rd.

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post #14 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 09:30 PM
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why?
everyone else and their brother has a stang.
Actually it's everyone and your brother.
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post #15 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-13-2009, 11:14 PM Thread Starter
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lol. 3.73's are streetable even with a blower.

I should have clarified. The reference to the TrickFlow heads was for the original poster, Mr. transam396, who has his F150 listed in his profile instead of his Tbird and who's screen name reflects a GM product, go figure?



Sorry I didn't realize that I hadn't corrected my profile since i got my bird...When i signed up I didn't have my bird yet so i listed the truck.

As for the screen name I've been using that same screen name since 1997 , I had a 1980 transam that I was going to put a 396 in. But marraige intervened.



I'm really intrested to see what kind of numbers the trickflow heads can put down.

I kinda laugh when i hear guys talking about needing 400-500 rwhp I think 300 would be a real nice number and as far as gears go would prob stay with somethin like a 3.55 or maybe as high as 3.73 to maintain some type of highway mileage as this is my DD.

LOL since I got this Thunderbird my 04 supercrew with the larait trim has been on the road Twice since October i just LOVE driving this car
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post #16 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by transam396 View Post

I kinda laugh when i hear guys talking about needing 400-500 rwhp I think 300 would be a real nice number and as far as gears go would prob stay with somethin like a 3.55 or maybe as high as 3.73 to maintain some type of highway mileage as this is my DD.

Well, as for gears, lemme put it to you this way. My car makes within 15 RWHP of Johnny Langton's. They were on the dyno the same day at the same place; however, his car runs over 1 sec faster in the 1/4 mile. The only significant differences are that he has 4.30's to my 3.73's, a higher stall converter than my 3500, and he ran on slicks. That's it. My 3.73's get about 24 mpg on the highway at 70 MPH while JL gets about 21-22 with the 4.30's.

Pete

-97 XR-7
-5.0 Big Bore ...
Ran @ Normal Operating Temps, No Race Tune, No Setup Changes from Daily Driven Configurations
9.0 @ 78 (1/8 Mile only in Abilene )
2.06 60' on Street Tires (BFG G-Force Super Sport 245/50/16)
3805 Lbs, Stock Exhaust Manifolds
Density Altitude = 4132'
That Run, Corrected for Standard Day
1/8 mile: 8.75 @ 82
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post #17 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-14-2009, 06:09 AM
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Sorry I didn't realize that I hadn't corrected my profile since i got my bird...When i signed up I didn't have my bird yet so i listed the truck.

As for the screen name I've been using that same screen name since 1997 , I had a 1980 transam that I was going to put a 396 in. But marriage intervened.

I'm really interested to see what kind of numbers the trickflow heads can put down.

I kinda laugh when i hear guys talking about needing 400-500 rwhp I think 300 would be a real nice number and as far as gears go would prob stay with something like a 3.55 or maybe as high as 3.73 to maintain some type of highway mileage as this is my DD.

LOL since I got this Thunderbird my 04 super-crew with the lariat trim has been on the road Twice since October i just LOVE driving this car
That's cool. Thanks for the clarification on your screen name.

Yea, I'd have to agree, 300 would be a real nice number to achieve. That's been my goal as well. I hope to get there this year or next. I'm running 3.73's in mine as well and am very pleased with them.

Here's a snapshot of the flyer for the new Trick Flow heads with some numbers on it, from this thread where we've been discussing them. There are also some other pictures of the new heads in the linked thread.

It's my understanding that the new Trick Flow heads are on several blocks and are currently being Dyno tested for stories to be run in automotive magazines in the coming months. As far as I know they're still not yet available. They will definitely be on backorder as soon as they are released for sale.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. Fusion® Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto.

Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 01-14-2009 at 06:21 AM.
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post #18 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 08:46 PM
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Well, as for gears, lemme put it to you this way. My car makes within 15 RWHP of Johnny Langton's. They were on the dyno the same day at the same place; however, his car runs over 1 sec faster in the 1/4 mile. The only significant differences are that he has 4.30's to my 3.73's, a higher stall converter than my 3500, and he ran on slicks. That's it. My 3.73's get about 24 mpg on the highway at 70 MPH while JL gets about 21-22 with the 4.30's.

Pete
4.10's and Vortech are not as bad as everyone thinks .

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post #19 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-21-2009, 11:39 PM
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Actually it's everyone and your brother.
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post #20 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 06:08 PM
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Like it states I was wondering what would be required to get 300 rwhp on a NA build? It would be going in a 95 T-Bird

This is not something that is gonna happen in the next lil bit but eventually I would like to try to reach this goal...

I know that otherthings would have to be looked at first but i would kinda like to start planning this out,

Also not looking to do a 32v swap maybe explorer swap
"transam396" Why bother with a Tbird, you can get a TransAm to 300 RWHP much cheaper. My 98 has 320 crank HP stock.

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post #21 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 07:36 PM
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Like it states I was wondering what would be required to get 300 rwhp on a NA build? It would be going in a 95 T-Bird

3C = Cams, Compression, Converter

Plus a few other tweeks but all 3 of the above are needed in that chassis.

The Trickflow heads will be nice but I wonder how they will perform with the stock plastic intake. The TFS intake has proven to slow down N/A cars that don't shift at least 7000RPM. I will be playing with them myself as soon as they start shipping. If they don't have much gain with the stock plastic intake then its going to be 7000RPM motors only if N/A.
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post #22 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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"transam396" Why bother with a Tbird, you can get a TransAm to 300 RWHP much cheaper. My 98 has 320 crank HP stock.
The only Transam's I really like are the 3rd gen preferably 89-92 or the 4th gen 98-02 with the WS6 package ...that is one mean looking car.

Problem is I have my T-Bird,I love my T-bird and I'm not intrested in swapping to GM's and couldn't afford to do it right now ....Now I would Love to have a 95 5spd SC but finding one in decent shape is tough . And my bird is in good shape and I ain't getting rid of her.

So I'm going to start planning a build and watcing what other guys are doing and see what I can come up with
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post #23 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-23-2009, 12:16 AM
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i cant really tell u personaly but there is a book i have that is called "how to build max-performance ..4.6 liter ford engines".

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post #24 of 90 (permalink) Old 01-23-2009, 01:39 AM
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The only Transam's I really like are the 3rd gen preferably 89-92 or the 4th gen 98-02 with the WS6 package ...that is one mean looking car.

Problem is I have my T-Bird,I love my T-bird and I'm not intrested in swapping to GM's and couldn't afford to do it right now ....Now I would Love to have a 95 5spd SC but finding one in decent shape is tough . And my bird is in good shape and I ain't getting rid of her.

So I'm going to start planning a build and watcing what other guys are doing and see what I can come up with
ok guys I got a 92 firebird and a 94 T-bird.... I love them both but I got two words for you...ride quality. For a daily driver the T-bird wins hands down and the interior layout is much better. The f-bird is like riding on a slab of cement on long trips, the t-bird feels like I am floating on a nice matress.

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post #25 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 03:33 AM
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Get a used PI 5.4, add 270 cams, choose an intake, and get a tune. THIS WILL GIVE YOU 300+ HP.
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post #26 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 03:38 AM
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Uh, no it wont.

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post #27 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 07:18 AM
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Get a used PI 5.4, add 270 cams, choose an intake, and get a tune. THIS WILL GIVE YOU 300+ HP.
I choose an early aluminum NPI intake off an 94 bird....will that get me there?



think before you speak, and some research next time.

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post #28 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 08:09 AM
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post #29 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 09:05 AM
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Get a used PI 5.4, add 270 cams, choose an intake, and get a tune. THIS WILL GIVE YOU 300+ HP.
that was too funny..LOL

guys read this post:

95 Swap to 5.4L

and read the last sentence of one of my replies a couple posts down:

95 Swap to 5.4L


so where is this 300+ HP 5.4 that was sitting in your barn?....it's been 15 months since then....i wanna see a stock headed pi 5.4 with cams and ANY intake break 270 at the wheels (300 ish at the crank)

hell read that whole thread...its funny

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post #30 of 90 (permalink) Old 02-26-2009, 09:41 AM
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and here is that thread....
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.p...42#post1049842

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