The definitive PI intake swap...all years 1876-1997 :) - Page 2 - TCCoA Forums

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post #31 of 104 (permalink) Old 08-24-2013, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHaggard View Post


Seems my water pump nipple hits this center hole, do you remove that? This intake also had like a bigger foam tampon on it that I slide off also.
I have a 95 coolant tube, 96 coolant tube and 04 explorer one that came with this intake because I pulled it off the engine myself. I didn't try all the tubes yet
Remove that "hole" if that's even possible, and you'll be drawing air in through there.

You have to use a PI coolant tube and water pump nipple. Plain and simple. Otherwise, how are you going to install the PI intake?? Look through all the threads in the link in the very first post. Nothing has changed since 10 years ago when people started doing this. You're making this difficult when it doesn't have to be at all.
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post #32 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-05-2014, 03:50 PM
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PI intake "definitive" article Q's

I'm going to do the upgrade and want to make sure I've ordered/gathered every last part I need and that they'll fit properly (exception being the gaskets, requiring RTV) so I can do this quickly in one fell swoop.

I read through the compilation of threads/posts in the go-to "tech article" (yes, all of them). It would be more helpful crafted into actual articles, with different years getting their own treatment since the procedures and needs differ.
As is, with practically every search return that mentions a PI Intake being lumped together, there are so many posts in those threads that go off on tangents as to make it a PITA to get at the meat.

... Which may be why, after reading so much irrelevance, I have now forgotten the following, if it was actually in there:

1. Exactly what hardline heater tube do I need? I think someone in those posts said the stang won't fit my car, but the Explorer one will? What vehicle do I go hunting up a part number for? Is the part # the same across all 2V PI vehicles? I prefer to use the hard line instead of pressing my luck with several soft (at least one 90°) hoses.

2. Exactly what nipple/bypass do I need? Again, will the stang (and which years) fit or do I go hunting for a Crown Vic or Explorer part? I don't recall seeing an actual part # in those threads.

3. At 88k, would my water pump o-ring be good to go back in? Anybody had issues reusing their original?

4. As my original intake was replaced with the recall, I have the 2-sensor aluminum crossover, so I'll swap it over. Are the PI crossover o-rings an exact match for the NPI crossover o-rings? Sure, you can swap the crossovers, but there could be slight differences. Has anyone had probs later on from using the PI o-rings with the NPI crossover? I don't recall seeing this addressed. I guess if there's a chance of problems down the road, I can tap the PI crossover instead.

5. The PI intake itself is different among vehicles. This helpful video shows a PI intake taken from an Explorer, requiring a heater line mod (I set the start time to the relevant segment):



... whereas the one on Amazon, et al, seems to have a port ready to slip a hose onto: http://www.amazon.com/Ford-Racing-M9...4.6l+pi+intake
I take it the Amazon one is the exact version I need for the Tbird.

6. The recommended RTV in the compilation of posts was Ultra Black. But people have since recommended to me red RTV. Has the consensus changed? Is red preferred over Ultra Black now?
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post #33 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-05-2014, 04:58 PM
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1. Exactly what hardline heater tube do I need? I think someone in those posts said the stang won't fit my car, but the Explorer one will? What vehicle do I go hunting up a part number for? Is the part # the same across all 2V PI vehicles? I prefer to use the hard line instead of pressing my luck with several soft (at least one 90°) hoses.

Ford part number xr3z-18b402-aa

2. Exactly what nipple/bypass do I need? Again, will the stang (and which years) fit or do I go hunting for a Crown Vic or Explorer part? I don't recall seeing an actual part # in those threads.

Ford part number f75z-8555-aa

3. At 88k, would my water pump o-ring be good to go back in? Anybody had issues reusing their original?

I would just replace the water pump while your there. They usually come with a new gasket ring. 88k miles and your there. .

4. As my original intake was replaced with the recall, I have the 2-sensor aluminum crossover, so I'll swap it over. Are the PI crossover o-rings an exact match for the NPI crossover o-rings? Sure, you can swap the crossovers, but there could be slight differences. Has anyone had probs later on from using the PI o-rings with the NPI crossover? I don't recall seeing this addressed. I guess if there's a chance of problems down the road, I can tap the PI crossover instead.

Drill and tap it. I've tried to change the crossover and had it leak. You can't find those o-rings anywhere, at least I can't find em.

5. The PI intake itself is different among vehicles. This helpful video shows a PI intake taken from an Explorer, requiring a heater line mod (I set the start time to the relevant segment):

I always use either Crown Vic (or any panther chassis) or Mustang intakes.

6. The recommended RTV in the compilation of posts was Ultra Black. But people have since recommended to me red RTV. Has the consensus changed? Is red preferred over Ultra Black now?

Having done the intake only swap on about 10 cars (2 mine) I have used only the red RTV. Never had it leak.

Daily Driver - 2014 Ford Mustang GT 5.0 manual black on black. Stock for now.

Current Project - 1996 T-bird LX 4.6L: PI head swap, factory 3.27 TL, tuned by Don LaSota.

Retired Car - 1995 T-bird LX 4.6L: 4v swap plus Cobra goodies
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post #34 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-05-2014, 06:08 PM
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hello I have gotten my intake and gaskets as well as the heater tube from Blue Oval Chips. I went with the 01 mustang water pump and o ring. I replaced it when I started the swap when I took off the water pump pully I noticed the shaft was leaking so it was a bonus. but if you feel like you need to replace it while your there for a peace of mind it is understandable. the main reason why I got my intake from them was to make sure I got the right things in one full swoop the extra alt braket is a good thing. but the tube and the second sensor hole drilled is a good thing as well
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post #35 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-06-2014, 09:38 AM
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I agree with everything stay_unique_91 posted.

I've done two so far, and didn't have leakage issues using ultra black; either will work. As long as it's "high temperature RTV" is should work for this.

The hardline tube is different on the explorer, and the heater core outlet is on the front somewhere; I've never used those.

You will have to do some adaptation of cooling lines at the back; while you have all this out, look into adding one of the cooling mods for the driver's head.

Tapping the manifold isn't hard; the drill and tap can be had for $20. I'd see if a machine shop would do it for $10, lol.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

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post #36 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-06-2014, 04:13 PM
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Thanks folks. I think I have an almost full tube of red here, but it's really old, so I dunno that I trust it, even though it SEEMS good. Does this even have a shelf life?

The guy in that video is using white silicone caulk; not sure what the temp rating is on that stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
while you have all this out, look into adding one of the cooling mods for the driver's head.
Are you referring to dropping in a 180° t-stat? I was planning on replacing the t-stat, but would the 180° cause cat & emissions probs (e.g., inspection failure this coming October)? I could swap it back just before inspection I suppose, but what about MPG with the 180°? I read that dropping temp hurts fuel economy and screws with the cats & emissions but can ultimately boost HP a little.

What other mods did you mean?
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post #37 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-06-2014, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stay_unique_91 View Post
Ford part number xr3z-18b402-aa
Ford part number f75z-8555-aa
Thanks! Now all I need are gasket numbers, since I forgot to mention those. I can find 'em in online catalogs for the stangs I reckon -- I assume THESE are at least the same for all 4.6L 2V PI's?

Quote:
You can't find those o-rings anywhere, at least I can't find em.
According to the YT comments for that video, the part #'s are 5W7Z-8C387-AA and 5W7Z-8C388-AA. They are available online from a number of suppliers.
However, nothing was said about these fitting better than the ones supplied with a new PI intake. They may just be NPI o-rings -- or PI as well, if both take the same part number.

@95mercxr7:
Thanks, but I saw the Blue Oval kit earlier and I can do better pricewise by collecting the individual parts myself.
I already have the alternator bracket from the stealership recall replacement, so I don't need that. The BO crossover doesn't appear to have the 2nd sensor location drilled, either, so I'd still have to deal with that issue.

Last edited by Torque; 04-06-2014 at 04:45 PM.
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post #38 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-06-2014, 04:51 PM
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what is mentioned is the part number for the coolent tube stay unique mentioned gets bolted up to the left head.

the new nipple you would have to tap out and tap in the new one so the new tube can be put in.

I just wish I did pics to post to show you what you have to do with that.

I hope some one else can chime in on that aspect.

the only thing I had to do like with others is have a longer heater hose one of them is the regular length but the other is a little longer to reach.

mine is a little different because I had to get a lot more for mine like extra vacume hoses.

I had a different intake manifold on my first gen 4.6.

if you try to put on the pi intake the old coolent tube will be in the way.
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post #39 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-15-2014, 01:54 PM
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argh!

I've ordered the manifold. I have some Q's regarding other components before I order them.

1. Pump o-ring and gasket or one and the same??

The water pump o-ring is part F1VY-8507-A, correct? Yes, I know a new one should come with a new pump, in which case I wouldn't need to worry about that particular part, but in any case...

The parts catalog shows this part to be not an o-ring but a cut gasket that goes between the pump housing flat and the block. However, as seen at 16:30 in the video in post #1, there is clearly no such gasket present when the original pump is removed, indicating Ford didn't use the gasket on these cars.

As seen here it comes back as "SEAL-4.0 I.D. O RIN", clearly indicating it is an o-ring. The price is exactly the same as the gasket, which would lead one to believe the o-ring is the gasket and vice-versa, despite the pic: #3 doesn't look like an o-ring, now does it?
It's not just AutoNation, either. Fordparts.com catalog shows the same gasket (at 5x the AutoNation MSRP!): WTF??

FFS, is there a secondary gasket on these cars or not? If the factory didn't install these, why does the official parts catalog show one (instead of an inner o-ring)? And for that matter, why isn't the o-ring shown in the catalog, since it obviously does go on the car (as seen in the video) and can obviously be ordered via unique part number (assuming the part number is not actually for the cut gasket)?

I don't want to yank the pump and [possibly] damage a [possibly existing] secondary gasket and then regret not having ordered a replacement ahead of time. And, I want to make sure I'm ordering the correct part(s) if I decide to reinstall the old pump instead of a new one (in which case I'll want a new o-ring at least), and if I buy a new pump I'll [maybe/likely] want a new cut gasket on hand.

2. Thermostat o-ring.
I wonder what vehicle this fits (check their I.D.).

Here we go again. Fordparts.com is showing an o-ring, although they refer to it as a gasket, and the exploded diagram shows a cut gasket for the housing instead of an o-ring.

At least the two suppliers' MSRP's agree on this part.

At 13:35 in the video, he mentions the o-ring and there's [again] clearly no housing gasket present.

So, is that the correct part number, despite AutoNation's I.D. spec and it being shown as a cut gasket instead of an o-ring in [portions of] the parts catalog(s)?

3. Fel-Pro vs. OEM PI intake gaskets.
Note I said I'll be using PI gaskets, not NPI ones, so this concerns only the PI versions, as those are the only ones I'm interested in.

Do the OEM ones have a metal or composite layer sandwiched in, making them superior and thus accounting for one OEM being the price of the entire Fel-Pro set, or is it just the usual price gouging because of it being OEM?

I don't want to cheap out and experience a leak anytime soon. BUT, if the Fel-Pro is just as reliable as OEM, then I don't mind spending half (or less), either.

Also, at 28:30 in the video he says there are two different replacement gaskets, but doesn't that only apply to [some] non-OEM ones? The OEM PI gasket can be used on either side, because the extra seal ring can be used on the front (t-stat) and back (heater nipple) by simply orienting them properly, so that one OEM gasket part number (YL3Z-9439-BA) is used on both sides, correct?



re: crackpipe mod
I'm not sure I'll have room at the back of the head to work, but I'll look into it. I'm certainly not about to hack on a brand new PI plastic intake, though, as here.

re: others
I'm staying with stock t-stat rating. Not gonna do a cobra rad mod, either. I have other things to spend time and money on, so I'm a dud for now.

Last edited by Torque; 04-15-2014 at 02:02 PM.
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post #40 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-15-2014, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque View Post
1. Pump o-ring and gasket or one and the same??
There's an o-ring that seals in the bore in the engine block.
There is no other gasket.
I've replaced several, NPI and PI.

BTW, Get the later water pump with the anti-cavitation rotor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque View Post
2. Thermostat o-ring.
There is an oring that goes between the cap and thermostat; that's it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque View Post
3. Fel-Pro vs. OEM PI intake gaskets.

Do the OEM ones have a metal or composite layer sandwiched in, making them superior and thus accounting for one OEM being the price of the entire Fel-Pro set, or is it just the usual price gouging because of it being OEM?
There's no metal layer in the stock intake manifold gasket.
I've used both types, and never noticed a difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torque View Post
re: crackpipe mod
I'm not sure I'll have room at the back of the head to work, but I'll look into it. I'm certainly not about to hack on a brand new PI plastic intake, though, as here.
This is what it looks like; you have to knock out a freeze plug, and put in two bolts to install it; the part needs a hacksaw cut first, and you have to make a small bracket to hold the other side.
One exists that has a bung for the Sensor for the automatic heat controls. Ther was no part number on it, tho.



Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

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post #41 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-15-2014, 06:52 PM
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Thank you for those clarifications. The contradictions coming from the suppliers was frustrating. I still wonder why they show a shaped gasket; earlier model pump perhaps, even though crossed to my '96?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
This is what it looks like
I actually saw that pic earlier while browsing the mod threads and it looks as easy as pie... with the engine out.

I had read about drilling back there and I pretty much stopped reading at that point, as I just can't see how I'd get at it for involved maneuvers with the head on the car.

If it's as simple as removing the plug (and if THAT itself is easily done) and using existing holes in the head, I might be able to get at it, but it's a PITA just getting the #8 plug in/out as it is.

Anyone have pics of their hands back there doing this mod with the head on-car?
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post #42 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-15-2014, 08:24 PM
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The only way to do this on-car would be to remove the wiper cowl, the way you have to to get the brake booster out.

If you have a loose head to do the alignment of the cutting/bracket-making part of the install, that would help.

To get it out, you need to hit it with a hammer and punch at the bottom, so the top tips out; grab it with vicegrips, put something between the grips and head, and lever it out.

Scotch brite any glue lines that might be there; sometimes, they use glue...

DO NOT drive it into the head, it will be in the way.

I use vasoline to help o-rings go in; I started the screws, and used them to pull it down.

IIRC, the bolts are 8mm x 20mm; they could be 6x20mm, it's been awhile.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

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post #43 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-19-2014, 01:38 AM
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I need to remove the cowl anyway to finish the Color Back restorer treatment. Maybe I'll try to dig around back there and get 'er done. I still haven't received the manifold (Butler MacMaster $190 shipped), so I have some time to think it over.
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post #44 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-19-2014, 09:29 PM
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I've had a coolant leak under pressure for the last bit on Lazarus; I checked everything today, and the drivers' side intake manifold bolts were finger loose.

I torqued them back down, and everything seems to be fine; it looks like I picked up ~1" of vacuum as well.

If it still leaks, I'll have to take it apart and redo the gaskets.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

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post #45 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-19-2014, 11:02 PM
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I checked the torque on the manifold bolts prior to condemning it.
I reckon it's cracked.

A tour of the engine bay yesterday revealed more coolant on the driver's side than I've seen since the misfire code was thrown.

I have yet to get another DTC, even though the idle is rough. I'm sure the plugs are again fouled. Evidently, it just hasn't been bad enough to make the PCM panic.

I'll let y'all know when I receive the new manifold and the condition it arrived in.
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post #46 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-20-2014, 10:51 AM
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I've never had tightening a gasket to fix anything, lol.

I'm going to order new gaskets today.

I had problems with the sealing surface on the head when I did the pi swap; the head surface was corroded fairly bad.
This could be my problem; although I can't imagine what would cause the bolts to loosen up.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

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post #47 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 09:31 AM
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after first warm up and cool down will do that.

I had to do the same thing to make sure the bolts stayed at 18 foot pounds.

I know it is weird but it is also a pain in the neck to double check but it is a good thing I think
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post #48 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-21-2014, 06:56 PM
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Those have been on for years; they were properly torqued, the rtv was allowed to dry, then run hard several times and rechecked due to the corrosion issue.

Intake bolts only get blue locktite, but the fact it apparently loosened makes me reconsider that.

The alternative is that the gasket shrank, loosening the bolts.

Being that there was damage to the surface, black rtv was basically used to glue the gaskets in.

Black rtv ultra doesn't have issues until 400c; there would be other problems by then.

The torque curve on the bolts going back in were similar, and it felt like it sat back down on the flat surface.

Pretty much like the bolts loosened by themselves; Is this the direction the alternator pulls?

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

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post #49 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-22-2014, 06:07 PM
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I hadn't planned on using an anaerobic on the threads. Is it really necessary and, if so, is it because it's PI instead of NPI? The bolts were tight on my leaky NPI, so I just wondered if these PI replacements are more prone to bolts loosening than the NPI ones. Or is the likelihood of this occurring directly proportional to the level of corrosion/pitting on the heads?
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post #50 of 104 (permalink) Old 04-23-2014, 05:28 PM
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I'll let you know after next weekend; I'll be doing gaskets.

It leaked, but did not overheat in a 10mph run on the interstate yesterday.

I won't deal with unreliable, so it comes out.

I'll try to take pix.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

"Never said Hibbity..." - Brian Williams
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post #51 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-01-2014, 01:42 AM
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gathering

Some of you may be interested in sources/prices and vendor performance.
The intake and dealer parts have arrived.

I ordered the intake from Butler MacMaster on 4-14 for $189.99 shipped.
It shipped via UPS on 4-21 and it arrived on 4-28. They sent it in the original FRPP factory box. Fortunately, it arrived in good shape, despite lack of extra protection (with UPS it's needed!).
It's the lowest final price I could find, and the FRPP box is dated 4-16-14 (UPC label) so it's a very fresh unit.
If you're in a hurry, though, you may want to shop elsewhere for yours.

Dealer parts were ordered from AutoNation (formerly Tousley Ford) on 4-21, shipped via UPS on 4-22 and arrived 4-25.
They have the lowest prices I could find on these:
F75Z8555AA: nipple, $7.79
XR3Z18B402AA: hardline tube, $29.12
F1VY8507A: SEAL-4.0 I.D. O RIN (shown in parts catalogs as a shaped water pump "gasket" is actually an o-ring), $3.49
F1VY8255A: SEAL - 15.08 I.D O (thermostat o-ring; it's a good fit/# despite the listed I.D.), $5.34
7L3Z8575B: 190°F thermostat, $11.90
AGSF32FM: platinum spark plug (new/alternate #), $3.63, Qty 8 = $29.04
Shipping (you don't learn the cost until after checkout, which is like giving them carte blanche, but I took a chance) was $12, for a grand total of $98.68.

As to UPS.. The AutoNation box arrived with a nice round hole punched in the side right where.. you guessed it.. the heater tube nipple interface is.
I checked my tube against images on the web and it seems about right, but it's entirely possible that it received a big enough hit to bend it a little -- it was a big enough hit to completely punch through the cardboard box at least! Unfortunately, there's no way to tell if it's going to fit perfectly with the existing manifold in place. The tube end doesn't look distorted and it seems to fit fine on the new nipple, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Fel-Pro PI manifold gasket kit ($30), injector o-rings ($10 for 16) and a 9-piece quick disconnect tool set ($17) are on the way from Amazon.
I also ordered the Dorman 703-270 hinge pin kits for both doors -- less than $6 per door from Amazon, only 2 left at the time of this writing.
Amazon prices are rounded off here.

I have new heater hose in my inventory and will likely find a brass inline coupler locally. If I don't have one in the garage somewhere, that should run me about 3-5 bucks. Alternatively, I could use the popular 90° fitting -- I have some plastic ones, but if memory serves I don't have it in brass.

I'm going to press my luck with swapping over my existing aluminum channel to the new intake.
As hinted at in the above parts order, I'm going to hold off on the new water pump for now. My original isn't giving me trouble and it's easily replaced later on, should I commit to keep the bird.

So, the total cost for my swap -- less possible brass coupler, less possible 3/8" NPT tap, less water pump, less coolant/flush, but including a new disconnect tool set -- is $345.68, give or take a few cents.
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post #52 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 12:03 PM
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it's all here

Ok, I finally have all the parts and tools. I also bought new hose clamp pliers, as that damn lower rad hose was killing my hands and I wasted lots of time struggling with it, and if/when I replace the heater hoses the firewall connections will be easier to deal with. The reason I removed the lower rad hose was to do a complete system back flush.

One quick question -- which I think may have been answered in one of those article threads but I don't have time atm to read through them all over again:
Should I let the gasket compound (I bought Ultra Black) cure with the manifold off (i.e., no pressure on it) or go ahead and mount the manifold (leaving the TB off)?
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post #53 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 02:02 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Mount it wet, and torque it to specs, following the sequence drawing. (From the Center two to the outside corners, alternating sides, pretty much.)

Allow it to dry before filling with water.

The surfaces the rtv is applied to need to be clean and dry; nothing on it to act as a mold release.

Don't forget the two dabs of extra RTV that go on an NPI head, to fill the corners that almost go under the gasket.

Don't block the injector openings with RTV.

Be sure after everything Else is done to get all the water out of the spark plug holes. I've been having issues with Lazarus over this; #7 was full of crap. It's better now.

Also, if you are not absolutely positive that you did not get water into an open piston, take the plugs out, and turn it over with fuse 15 out. (it's under the hood) It's a pain, but easier than replacing a bent valve.
Turning the engine over 4 times by hand with the plugs still in is also acceptable; if you can bend a valve by hand, you deserve it.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

"Never said Hibbity..." - Brian Williams
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post #54 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-11-2014, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
The surfaces the rtv is applied to need to be clean and dry
Will carb & choke cleaner do the trick? If that leaves a residue, I assume 91% iso alcohol would suffice. I use it all the time in electronics service, but admit to never having tried it on an aluminum head prior to using gasket compound.

Quote:
Also, if you are not absolutely positive that you did not get water into an open piston...
Yeah, I've seen pics of bent rods due to hydrolock. Also saw the video of that MN-12 job where he knew (or at least suspected) he got water in the chambers but didn't blow it out -- nasty, sounded like a Tommy gun going off in his bay!
So long, engine.

Quote:
if you can bend a valve by hand, you deserve it.
Reminds me of the old Six Million Dollar Man ep where Col. Austin was torquing down lug nuts with his bare fingers.
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post #55 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-12-2014, 05:12 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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I used brake parts cleaner that doesn't leave a residue, and allowed it to completely dry before RTV was applied.

The first PI intake I did, I was about to try to start it when a friend reminded me; #8 must have been full of water.

Unless I know I got water in there, I turn them by hand, 4 times; if you feel resistance, take the plugs out.

Don't use the starter to clear the water; there's a lot of leverage, and a full cylinder will not empty gently.

It never hurts to take the plugs out and look at them, although you want the engine cold to pull them. There aren't a lot of threads there, and they're aluminum.

I use moly hi-temp anti-seize on the plugs.

I'd love to be able to tighten bolts to spec with my fingers.

Last week I put together a piece of equipment a couple of the mechanical Dr's were playing with all day, trying to get one bolt in.
They were going crazy trying to reach this bolt to put a nut on it, building stuff in the machine shop crazy, lol.
They showed me the problem, I took the nut between my index finger and middle finger, stuck my arm up to the end, and screwed the nut on with my fingertips.
They were blown away, lol.
That's something you only learn working on cars.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

"Never said Hibbity..." - Brian Williams

Last edited by Grog6; 05-12-2014 at 05:19 PM.
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post #56 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-12-2014, 11:47 PM
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Roger on clearing the water by hand first. I'll stick a post-it-note on my forehead if I have to just so I don't forget to do that after being inevitably angered at something the Ford engineers have done. That'll give the neighbors something to talk about -- err.. then again, I don't want to star in a viral video, so.. maybe just a string (or o-ring!) on my finger instead.

Plugs will be yanked, for sure. They'll be replaced with the new Motorcrafts I ordered with the other dealer parts for the PI swap.

Idle was stumbling again with the old Bosch platinums, so I pulled them to again rid them and the plug holes of coolant. I discovered 4 of them were showing no sign of a center electrode! I used a bit of 30 AWG wire to find the electrodes and they had eroded down about 1/8"! It's amazing the car would even run, let alone run smoothly after I cleaned the plugs/holes the first time. I'm surprised the spark managed that huge gap -- perhaps the full ceramic surround of the center electrode focused the spark as it exited (or entered, depending on whether you prefer conventional flow), whereas with an open center electrode it could have strayed?

Having seen those Bosch's, I bought a new set of cheap Autolite 764's to run until I do the intake swap, which will be soon. Then my Bird gets the proper OEM plug treatment.

Last edited by Torque; 05-12-2014 at 11:52 PM.
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post #57 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 06:33 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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We have a waste spark system; you don't want to use anything but a double platinum plug.

Half will wear the tip, and as you found, half will wear the center electrode.

The side the electrons hits vaporizes, very slowly. Platinum lasts longer than anything else.

Copper plugs, cut and indexed, are for racecars, IMHO. They have to be dressed every ~10k, or they will miss.

Don't buy plugs with skinny center electrodes; at least, that side, anyway.

Isn't it the driver's side that kills the center electrodes? It's been a long time...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

"Never said Hibbity..." - Brian Williams
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post #58 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-13-2014, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
We have a waste spark system; you don't want to use anything but a double platinum plug.
Half will wear the tip, and as you found, half will wear the center electrode.
The ground electrodes were just fine on all 8, and I could swear they were sold as double platinums -- but it's been a long time since I bought them, so...
They've since changed the centers to the open, trumpet style.

Anyhoo, the AGSF32FM's that are going in are double platinum, according to Ford. Yes, they're the fine wire type, but I elected to adhere to Ford's recommendations and go OEM this time around.

Quote:
Isn't it the driver's side that kills the center electrodes? It's been a long time...
Unfortunately, I didn't examine mine closely until they were all out and I brought them inside to look at under the bench magnifier lamp.
I do know that the #7 and #8 were two which were eroded, because they had coolant on the threads and the others didn't (as per my other thread, those were the ones fouling and causing the misfire DTC).
I assumed at the time that the fouling issue had led to the erosion, until I saw the other 2 plugs (again, these were supposed to be double platinums, or so I thought).
It's possible (likely?) the other 2 bad ones were on the driver's side as well, but I can't confirm it.
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post #59 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-14-2014, 04:49 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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It's a known issue on these cars; maybe we need a sticky of known issues...

I'll do some searches this weekend, and start a thread with a list.

There are quite a few that have come up by now.

I started one.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

"Never said Hibbity..." - Brian Williams

Last edited by Grog6; 05-14-2014 at 05:07 PM.
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post #60 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-16-2014, 10:13 PM
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I ordered this valley tube: Ford part number xr3z-18b402-aa. The tube exits on the lh side of the engine. I'll have to run a hose over to this from my heater hose. I saw a tube on a 02 grand marquis that exited on the rh side. Thought I might be able to use the stock hoses if I went this route.

I just purchased this tube part number referenced above, pi alternator bracket, thermostat seal, water pump seal, and cobra water pump. All of this stuff was available through my motorcraft supplier, to my surprise. Unfortunately, had to go to the dealer to get the pi valley nipple (genuine ford parts.) I am installing this on my 97 gt since one of my heater hoses busted last weekend. Oh yeah got some poly mounts to reduce hose flexing too!

I think it would be helpful to post all the motorcraft numbers for these parts, including the different valley tubes and their differences, although im sure most people would want it to exit on the lh side to make it easier to keep the atc lockout switch. Next time around on the bird, I'll probably bypass it. I never use the auto function on the hvac controls. Just some things that came to mind while I read this thread.

-Rob
RIP '94 Amber Fire Pearl Metallic Thunderbird on Bullitts 14.56@90.54MPH
96 Sport '02 Explorer PI with ported heads, 90MM LMAF, DirtyDog Marauder TC, Inject tech chip, Jmod, Magnaflow mid-mount with Tru-X core, no cats. Urethane drivers motor mount. HIDs!
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