The definitive PI intake swap...all years 1876-1997 :) - Page 3 - TCCoA Forums

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post #61 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-16-2014, 10:27 PM
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I had the crown vic tube when I did my PI intake swap, then swapped it for the xr3z-18b402-aa when I did the heads/cams. The problem with the crown vic tube is it comes out at an angle rather than straight up(as the stock one does) and the hose gets all bent out of shape to reach it (mine was all kinked). I was able to come up a with much tidier setup using the Mustang tube, tidier than stock even. I don't have CELO on mine either.

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post #62 of 104 (permalink) Old 05-17-2014, 02:18 PM
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The motorcraft kt-21 tube fit the 97 mustang stock heater hoses just fine. I just installed a kt-10 on an 03 grand marquis and it exits on the passenger side of the engine and comes up at a 45* angle and accepts 5/8" hose right at the rear inner corner of the valve cover.

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post #63 of 104 (permalink) Old 06-22-2014, 03:40 PM
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I'm deep into the swap at the moment and ran into something not entirely unexpected, but disturbing nonetheless.

I have thick, gummy, black carbon deposits all in my head intake ports. I swiped with a blue shop paper towel and it's pretty bad.

Is there anything I can do to get rid of this w/o removing the heads themselves?
I would think whatever I do that breaks this stuff loose would just end up sending it right down into the piston chambers. And I'd rather not pour the generic cleaner chemical in and run it through after I get my brand new intake on.

Is there a cleaner that will completely dissolve this stuff so it'll get safely blown out (meaning safe for exhaust system as well) when I first crank up the engine after the intake swap is complete? I could try carb/choke cleaner spray I guess, but it would take $o many can$ I'm thinking and with the stuff this thick I could be just spinning my wheels at great expense (both monetarily and time wasted).

Tips? Tricks?
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post #64 of 104 (permalink) Old 06-22-2014, 08:11 PM
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Modular motors are bad about recycling oil thru the manifold.

IIRC, that's what seafoam is for.

You Could wash it all out with carb cleaner; that washes it past the rings.

Use plenty; washing the rings down can't hurt at this age.

As long as you pull the plugs and add a healthy spoonful of oil to each cylinder before you crank it over to make sure the cylinders are clear, it should be fine.

You will have to change the oil, of course; it will be nasty, lol.

Relube anything you clean with carb cleaner before it sits overnight!

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
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post #65 of 104 (permalink) Old 06-22-2014, 11:07 PM
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Thanks for the tips.

Upon closer inspection, with adequate lighting and leaning way in for a better viewing angle this time, I noticed the sooty deposits on both heads are mostly on the valley side. Down deeper into the port, it's cleaner and the valve/stem look spotless on all cylinders. I'm less discouraged at this point.

Interestingly, and this may be suited for the 4.6-specific issues thread, the driver's side ports seem to be cleaner on all cylinders than the passenger side -- driver side has 2-3" worth of deposits (down), just not as much all around or as thick.
Injectors have never been replaced on this car, so I'm wondering whether this is a propensity for this engine (e.g., design of the NPI intake). I don't think the fuel rails are dirty inside, so flow should be about the same on both sides. (?)
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post #66 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-15-2014, 02:32 PM
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We need a REAL Definitive PI Intake Swap Thread!

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post #67 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-15-2014, 02:46 PM
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I'll make an article. What's it worth to ya?

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post #68 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-15-2014, 03:46 PM
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There are so many variations, what year you start with, what gaskets to use, SATC or not, specific stuff for MN12, general stuff for pre 99, etc.

I remember in 2003 doing the swap on my 97 Cougar. I took all the available stuff at the time, formulated a plan, worked around some inconsistencies, and with only a few additional trips to the hardware store did it in a few hours.

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post #69 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-15-2014, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangster View Post
There are so many variations, what year you start with, what gaskets to use, SATC or not, specific stuff for MN12, general stuff for pre 99, etc.

I remember in 2003 doing the swap on my 97 Cougar. I took all the available stuff at the time, formulated a plan, worked around some inconsistencies, and with only a few additional trips to the hardware store did it in a few hours.
Its really pretty easy

Jim

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post #70 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-15-2014, 04:34 PM
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If you can't follow Torque' directions, Maybe Cars are Not for You.

Some very good members here don't do their own wrench work; they pay someone competent, like RobertP.

Which partnumbers you need is Directly driven by what you have or buy.
Ford partnumbers change often, driven by problems on cars later than ours; keeping up with that takes employees, not posters.

Always make a list of what parts you install, because it will come up in the future.

I have a Logbook that keeps track of all mods to all cars, with dates and partnumbers; that way I don't buy the wrong part to fix something.

c.v. I have an 03 intake on a 96 that has no gasket, it's glued on with RTV. Works great; the head has deep pits in the gasket surface...buying a gasket for that car and thinking it will be an easy fix is a ruined afternoon, lol.

As far as a better thread, keep in mind We can't and won't spoon feed; that sets a bad precedent.
Linking to the previous posts is a way of giving credit to the guys that pioneered it here.

I suggest making friends with the local ford parts counter guy, and get him to find the parts you need; that works for me.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
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post #71 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-15-2014, 11:28 PM
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post #72 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-16-2014, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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best thing to do is to do a backwards search starting from 2002 with the search terms of your choice. Lots of 94/95'ers have done the swap without step-by-step instructions, just piecing things together. If someone climbed on-board after the fact, it's no one's fault, and neither are they necessarily deserving of some kind of extensive/comprehensive 100% complete resource for their model year car for non-stock mods just because of their join date. It would be great if one could just say "well you did [something] first before I even joined here, so you should have to show me exactly how to do it for my car".
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post #73 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-16-2014, 09:43 AM
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I didn't find a definitive V6 singleport to splitport conversion DIY thread on TCCOA -- just bits and pieces of problems/issues found by other folks or non-tbird specific DIYs on other sites. My solution was not to whine about it in a thread but make one nyself. I also made sure to include the options I found (including ones I had no intention of choosing) as well as my reasoning for choosing my final option.

It's called contributing to the community. Other folks (JCO1385) have since used this information and sent me corrections as needed - they too have contributed to the site.

I don't even own a V6 anymore so when I did the V8 swap and found a definitive V6 to V8 conversion article missing, I repeated that task again.

I'm not going to pass judgement about whether or not you "deserve" to drive a tbird; there are tons of enthusiasts who pay shops to do the work for them and that helps our national economy. However, there is something to be said for figuring out what you need yourself AND making the job easier for the next guy. I'm sure if you found any specific issue/tradeoff (like I found with both my upgrades), one of the other members would be glad to answer your question & you can include this data in your post.

I'm looking forward to seeing it.
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post #74 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-16-2014, 10:24 AM
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Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Some of us are better working on interior, body, audio, etc. than we are mechanical. I would fit into that category.

I think it is fair for someone who is not mechanically inclined (and maybe afraid to screw up their car) to ask for a "how-to" that is maybe a little more comprehensive and clear.

I do not think asking for a better "how-to" is meant to offend anyone. God knows I appreciate anyone willing to take the time to write one up and have benefited from reading them on this forum many times!
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post #75 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-16-2014, 11:34 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurch View Post
I think it is fair for someone who is not mechanically inclined (and maybe afraid to screw up their car) to ask for a "how-to" that is maybe a little more comprehensive and clear.
I would agree with you 100% IF we were talking about a standard maintenance procedure that everyone had to do at some point to their car and IF a paid membership to this club merited everyone that right to have articles left and right on modifications that were never intended for this platform.

Fact #1: PI intake swap is not required maintenance and is for the most part, a non-stock, performance modification never intended for MN12's.

Fact #2: Paid membership exists only to keep the site around and online. Anything else is in the "well at least there's something" category. Show the me the part of the club rules that says "you will get exclusive inside details and 100% comprehensive instructions for your model year on how to do non-stock performance modifications".

Moral of the story: You get what you pay for. That said, there are tons of helpful people here who have helped others get by practically anything. Sure some like me like to make others do a little more work themselves, but hey that's just me and there's no harm in that (other than hurting people's feelings along the way). In the end, I have paid my dues and still continue to do so by documenting in public many things I have done/discovered along the way that no one before me (or very very few people) had. I'm talking completely some things off-the-wall stuff. Just look at my threads on longtube headers, fuel pump hat, one-of-a-kind high compression naturally aspriated engine build with extreme detail on cam degree'ing, COP installation diagrams, SVO intake, Xcal datalogging, EEC tuning information, installation of TFS adjustable crank gears, custom 7 qt Mark VIII oil pan, etc, etc. That's not counting the countless PMs that I've answered regarding many many things to many many people over the years. Anyone think I already knew this stuff when I joined this club? Nope, heck no not even close. Did I deserve for someone to do all this stuff just because I wanted the information and had already paid my $40 for membership when Bill owned the site? Nope, I didn't. I had to use what info was already out there, together with a couple PMs here and there to certain people, and make do. So no, lurch, it isn't all that fair after all.
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post #76 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-16-2014, 11:58 AM
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FWIW, before i wrote my thread, I actually read every single thread that mentioned splitport on this site as well as on several other v6 essex mustang focused websites. That was how I figured out what my options were for the upgrade.
I could imagine that you could do the same with a PI swap. Even if a tbird specific DIY isn't available (yet), there ARE a ton of them for 4.6L mustangs. Even someone who isn't mechanically oriented should be able to read through that stuff to figure out what parts to buy (or what questions to ask beyond "plz send me a writeup specific for my application").

NOTE: I'm sure there are hotrod shops that would be willing to do all the legwork & mod for you in north Texas.... for a price. It's not like the modular engine is a rare item where the OP lives.

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post #77 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-16-2014, 03:37 PM
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All of the above holds true with my 4v swap as well. My vote is if the modification is that important to you, then dive in and become obsessive with the research.

-1996 Pearl White Thunderbird 4.6 Sport 4v with many mods:
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post #78 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-16-2014, 04:37 PM
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There's a difference between saying "I wish there was a good how to" and "Someone needs to write a good how to". I take pride in what articles I've written or the things I've done whether or not someone else even follows them, most of the time they simply come about because I happened to have a camera nearby during a project and the rest of the article content is simply finding myself having to explain the pictures. I(we) are not obligated to post up articles because they are the most in demand, if someone does they should be applauded, but if someone doesn't doesn't mean you or anyone else can condemn them. The thing about the sticky (which you probably don't see the humor of) is that that's what people keep demanding and that's the best they're going to get unless they do something about it themselves.

Those of us who've already done it have answered and still answer all the questions possibly asked about the PI intake swap, and every last post is a click away and every bit as relevant as ever. Could one of us who've done it write up a article? Sure. But then we'd get *****ed at for not having part #s, or if we had part #s we'd get *****ed at for not having progress pics(since I don't think anyone is going to undo their intake swap to get them) ect. This is no ones job, the sticky has all the information one would need to make their own article and I'd be the first one to sticky and archive it if someone came up with one. But does anybody? I haven't seen any submissions, despite people confirming swap success... hmm...

When I did my PI intake swap there wasn't a whole lot of information covering the 94/5s since not many people were willing to gather all the additional pieces for it circa 06-08, in fact it's still a rare sight to see a 94/5 with a complete top end conversion(motor swaps are much more common instead). The best advice I EVER got was from searching in a post from a few years before I joined and it the post was essentially this:

"for 96/7 you need...
-PI intake
-PI water pump nipple,
-PI Mustang coolant tube
-PI intake gaskets

And on a 94/5 add every component bolted directly or indirectly to a stock 96/7 thunderbird/cougar intake manifold."

And you know what? That's exactly what I did and it went together like a glove. No 10 paragraph write up, no pictures, no part numbers, nothing. Everything from Ford can be found by a competent parts counter employee if you give them a Model and year range(Mustang GT, 99-04) and everything else 94/5 to 96/7 conversion related can be found at junkyards, forum classifieds ect. and since all of that stuff is long obsolete through Ford, Part # are no help there. The cold hard truth is when people have the parts, it all ends up going together so quick and easy that before they know it there's nothing to document for a write up. It went together just as everyone in the community(past or present) said it would and everyone's happy... except the next guy who hasn't done it yet.

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post #79 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-17-2014, 12:00 PM
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What XR7-4.6 said and my PI intake swap on youtube video should be all the info needed for a 96-97 MN12. For a 94-95 you'll need a 96+ donor for all the top dress. All PI parts can be bought for a 2001+ Mustang at your local Ford store. When checking the junkyard, I give examples to look for in the video.

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post #80 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 12:36 AM
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post #81 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 08:28 AM
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Why do you need to know what year cars got the PI intake? Are you going to get it from a junk yard? With the PI intake being in the FRPP line of parts it is crazy to not get it new.

Mustangs got PI heads in 1999 and Panthers got them in 2001. Explorers always had them, everything else intake wise doesn't matter as it is the truck intake.

While I got MOST information here for the PI intake swap, I picked up bits and pieces from all over. Everything from here was model specific, and other sources were general. The sticky pointing to a tech article that is just search results is sorta funny.

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post #82 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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I'm sorry but I'm the kind of guy who likes to get things right the first time
Do things right the first time?!?!?!



Give me a freaking break....

Egg bad for coolant sensor?
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Originally Posted by V8ThunderCat View Post
Recently I was informed that I had a coolant leak coming from around the end of the upper radiator hose going into the radiator. At first I just thought I had hit a puddle that splashed mud up and onto the engine. I think the shop thought it was mud too but they notcied coolant when they ran their finger along the bottom of the hose. I've come to realize that the mud is really coolant after cleaning the engine and finding a muddy engine again the very next day.

Before cleaning the engine I put an egg into the coolant. I didn't think it mattered where I added the egg so I poured it into the resevoir. From what I could tell from the topics that I've read I couldn't tell what I was supposed to do with it seeing as how our radiators do not have caps and I figured taking off a hose was more trouble than it was worth. I don't think the egg helped with the leak but it did appear to help with the cooling so maybe it plugged an opening within the radiator itself.

Just in case I bought a new hose and some clamps. When I removed the old hose I can tell that the side of the nipple is cracked and there may be some other cracks nearby. Apparently the new hose was an XL (extra long?) so I had to trim a few inches from each end to make it fit, (I hate Autozone). I hoping that a newer snug hose and new clamps will help keep it from spraying but I'm sure it'll only become worse. When I have the funds I am going to buy a Griffin radiator so I don't have to worry about cracking plastic again.

Right now I'm in the process of refilling the coolant but the coolant sensor is bugging me. Even though the resevoir is full the low coolant light keeps on blaring at me. Now I'm trying to figure out if the sensor had gone bad due to the coolant level being low for a few weeks or because the egg has gunked it up? Was I supposed to add the egg strait into the radiator?


If that post of yours doesn't humble you quickly, just keep going. I'm sure I'll get fed up with this thread REAL quick.
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post #83 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 10:27 PM
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post #84 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 10:42 PM
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post #85 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 11:35 PM
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Yes, I was planning on pulling an intake from the junkyard but if the guy selling the typhoon would get back to me I'll be getting that here. Over the years while I've lurked here I've read of all of the issues about leaks that people have had and I'm doing what I can to help myself and hopefully other people in doing this correctly. I know the info is here but there so much scattered all around I cannot be certain what works best.
If youre trying to go about doing this correctly, buy a brand new intake manifold and skip the junkyard at all costs. Plastic tends to become brittle after so many years, so save yourself the future trouble and just buy a new one .. they are fairly inexpensive and the extra cost associated with buying new versus used is well worth the peace of mind.

As far as the swap article, on a 96/97 the PI intake is exactly the same as replacing the NPI intake manifold .. remove, clean surfaces, install new gaskets, install manifold. Updating a 94/95 is a matter of replacing the fuel lines, fuel rails, intake tube, plenum, EGR assembly and tube, vacuum lines, and re-wiring for the sensors / moving the wiring from the middle of the manifold to the outsides - or picking up an engine harness from a 96/97 and re-pinning if necessary. If you have all of the parts necessary, its a fairly simple job.

On a side note, you need to chill out. If some of us sound condescending its because we are tired of spoon feeding cry babies and the whiskey is starting to kick in.
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post #86 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 11:36 PM
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post #88 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-19-2014, 11:50 PM
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Last edited by V8ThunderCat; 07-20-2014 at 07:12 PM.
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post #89 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by V8ThunderCat View Post
See, more info that I may have gleaned in the past but I would never have remembered all of these specifics. I honestly have no idea what FRPP is or which intake would be the same as the ones for vehicles you mentioned. Now I'm wondering what in the hell is a Panther? Like I said I hope to get that typhoon which is mostly new and I'm assuming all aluminium whether polished or not.

My biggest concern is do I buy the gasket for any PI intake or the NPI intake? I thought I read that it's the NPI one that's used along with some RTV but my mind is still fogged up from the time I tried to use that link. It must be time to play some more Bad Company 2.
Seriously, I think it's time you learned to search more than playing some first person shooter. If you had bothered using google, you would have figured this stuff out pretty quickly (the first few options from Google should answer your questions).

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...+FRPP&safe=off

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...nther&safe=off

PI intake or non PI intake gaskets. This is NOT a tbird specific question. Start reading DIYs.
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post #90 of 104 (permalink) Old 07-20-2014, 01:39 AM
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Last edited by V8ThunderCat; 07-20-2014 at 07:12 PM. Reason: dumbing it down
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