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post #31 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-11-2016, 07:54 PM
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No. Look up guitar maestro's conversion thread, you need to modify the wiring harness
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post #32 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-11-2016, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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No. Look up guitar maestro's conversion thread, you need to modify the wiring harness
I was just reviewing that.

So basically the only real advantage is a cleaner engine bay?

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post #33 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-11-2016, 08:03 PM
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Yup. Worth it!
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post #34 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-11-2016, 08:40 PM
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And coils that will periodically go bad, instead of the stock ones that literally never go bad. In my opinion, not worth it.

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post #35 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-11-2016, 09:24 PM
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And coils that will periodically go bad, instead of the stock ones that literally never go bad. In my opinion, not worth it.
I'd agree with that if it weren't for the wires. I've had the worst luck with them, My last set of motorcrafts had two that simply lost all conductivity at random, and the set before that had three break trying to pull them off the plug, which like clockwork I gouge my hand on the fuel rails when they do give.

COP Coil goes bad, I just reach into my stash and swap that one out. No spending nearly $100 on plug wire sets for 1 bad wire, no rerouting, no mixing up order, no drama swapping them out.
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post #36 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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So I've been thinking (yes, that's the burning smell) about how to get more power...

Putting in a stock Mountaineer (Explorer) block with my already modified PI intake manifold on it. Going to get a set of headers, a tune for 91 octane, 180* thermostat, and go ahead and swap out every gasket on the motor, along with every sensor so I know they're all in good shape.

That said, I started thinking about electric water pumps. I understand that with an electric pump, it flows at a constant speed regardless of engine RPM, so radiator choice and the possibility of removing the thermostat entirely open up.

Pros/Cons of an electric water pump? Worth it to save a few horses, or should I just try and get them back another way?

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post #37 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 04:08 PM
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Only issue with electric pumps is motor life. Most are designed for track use so are not built to handle day in day out use (are not continuous use motor). Though with the OEMs going this route should become less of an issue.
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post #38 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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Only issue with electric pumps is motor life. Most are designed for track use so are not built to handle day in day out use (are not continuous use motor). Though with the OEMs going this route should become less of an issue.
I've been doing some reading, and the Maziere pumps are being designed to be a street driven replacement pump.

Some thinking would need to happen to put the right sized restriction in place of the thermostat to keep the engine at a relatively constant temperature.

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post #39 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 04:23 PM
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When mechanical water pumps fail, they leak, but they'll still circulate coolant, when electric pumps fail they do absolutely nothing, with no warning.

I wouldn't use an electric water pump on a street driven vehicle unless it's OEM and gone through the rigors of testing they put parts through to know with confidence that they'll last a hundred thousand miles under real world conditions. Few factory cars exist with them, which is telling. The exceptions are by in large(if not all AFAIK) Hybrids, in which case it's far less of a concern since the IC engine isn't always operating.
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post #40 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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When mechanical water pumps fail, they leak, but they'll still circulate coolant, when electric pumps fail they do absolutely nothing, with no warning.

I wouldn't use an electric water pump on a street driven vehicle unless it's OEM and gone through the rigors of testing they put parts through to know with confidence that they'll last a hundred thousand miles under real world conditions. Few factory cars exist with them, which is telling. The exceptions are by in large(if not all AFAIK) Hybrids, in which case it's far less of a concern since the IC engine isn't always operating.
Yeah, and the $400 they want for them is a little steep for me.
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post #41 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 07:16 PM
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I wouldn't and don't have any qualms about running the Meziere pump on a DD. I would and do suggest retaining the thermostat however.
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post #42 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 07:34 PM
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I know people have had good luck with the Meziere pumps, but it still kind of scares me. If I was going to run one on a street car, I would try to figure out a way to wire in an audible alarm so that if the pump loses power, or if the current draw gets higher than normal, it will alert me BEFORE I happen to look down and see the temperature needle pegged.
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post #43 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 07:57 PM
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And that's completely doable. Though I'd use a flow-meter instead.

That said, I installed my Meziere in 2006 with nary an issue to date.

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post #44 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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And that's completely doable. Though I'd use a flow-meter instead.

That said, I installed my Meziere in 2006 with nary an issue to date.
A flow meter instead of an alarm? Not a bad idea at all. I was thinking of a light or something to go with it, I'm good about checking gauges, but as my experience with my oil pressure gauge goes, having it not directly in front of me means it doesn't get checked as quickly.

Also, my white face gauges made it so I couldn't see the oil pressure light. Putting the black face on ASAP.

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post #45 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 09:44 PM
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A flow meter to trigger a buzzer or light...as opposed to measuring current.
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post #46 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-16-2016, 10:10 PM
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Meziere pump in my heap since 2012.

Not DD, but a raced and driven to Fort Lauderdale beach
and South Beach on weekends.

They are only needed if you need drag strip cool downs between
rounds.
And I'm running the original stock radiator.

Otherwise save your money.
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post #47 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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It begins!



Picked this up at a garage sale today, was listed at $100, got it for $50.

Got a line on the motor, and perhaps the $$$ to get Kooks and cams as well. Planning on talking to MHS about a good set for my PI heads. I'm hoping the ones in my motor are good, as they are supposedly mildly ported. Going to get a 91 octane tune from Lasota Racing unless someone has a better choice.

I do need a list though. What head gaskets should I get? Intake Manifold gasket? I know I need to get a new CPS, probably a DPFE, any other sensors I should get while I'm at it? I have a new IAC and TPS I just installed last summer.

If I get the Kooks, do I need the 2.5" downpipe that SuperCoupePerformance sells too?

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post #48 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 08:59 PM
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Get the Ford racing head changing kit, comes with new TTY bolts and head gaskets. Go OEM or Felpro intake gaskets
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post #49 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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Get the Ford racing head changing kit, comes with new TTY bolts and head gaskets. Go OEM or Felpro intake gaskets
Will do.

Looking at MHS cams, I keep eyeing these.
Modular Head Shop 2V Camshaft Degree Service

I have a Mark VIII converter (2800 stall I think?), Jmod, 3.73's, and smaller diameter tires for more mechanical advantage. I know they recommend 3000 stall, but I am planning on putting a manual in next.

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2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #50 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Aaaand.....

I'm going to start unbolting things next weekend. I need to unbolt the exhaust from the manifolds, drain the coolant, oil took care of itself, and disconnect the hoses, and the engine harness from the body harness right? Anything else I should do? I'm sure I need to remove the battery. Anything else?

Should I pull the transmission with the motor? If so, do I need to pull the driveshaft, or will it just slide out as I pull the engine out?

I will have help from a few guys more experienced than I, but trying to get prepared.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #51 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-21-2016, 09:46 PM
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I find it much easier to pull the motor by itself.
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-90SC 5-speed, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, soon to be transplanted into...
-90 XR7 5-speed black on black w/sunroof
-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
-70 Torino GT Fastback project car. Needs EFI and a manual trans, but I'm not sure what motor to go with yet.
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post #52 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 08:56 AM Thread Starter
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I find it much easier to pull the motor by itself.
That's what I was hoping too. Seemed like a lot to balance

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2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #53 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 10:59 AM
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You have to have a engine hoist that goes really high if you want the tranny too.

Borrow a load balancer, it helps.

I bolt a chain across the back and the front, thru a bolt into the heads, and hook the load balancer to the middle of those chains.

Use a good chain, it's a hefty beast; about 550 pounds, iirc.
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post #54 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Will do.

I'm expecting to get $2500 to put towards the rebuild.

$300 for the engine, an 03 Mountaineer motor. Complete
$150 for the FRPP head changing kit, I plan to replace the head gaskets, intake gasket, etc. Also going to replace the CPS and DPFE just to be done. New oil pan gasket and also a new oil pan (in case mine is shot, will find out), along with all the goodies to replace the air conditioning is $500, $150 for the manifold to charge it/run vacuum, and $870 for the Kooks and the extra pipe to lead into my exhaust. Then an Xcal and a Lasota tune.

So, all told, looking about $2400.

What can I expect for power on a 91 octane tune with the PI block, heads, etc and no catalysts?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #55 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 03:03 PM
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Add rear main seal to your list. They hold up well on these motors but they suck to do later.
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post #56 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-22-2016, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Add rear main seal to your list. They hold up well on these motors but they suck to do later.
Added, thank you.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #57 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-28-2016, 08:22 PM Thread Starter
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Made some purchases today...

Engine will be in my garage this week, waiting for the cash to deposit my account.

Ordered a 1 ton engine hoist with a 2 ton balancer and chains.
Ordered an Xcal 3 unlocked.

Last weekend I got an engine stand, will put the new motor on it.

Starting to come together!

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #58 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 10:16 AM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
...

Ordered a 1 ton engine hoist with a 2 ton balancer and chains.
...
Make sure your hoist will do 600lbs with the boom fully extended; you need that.

It's hard to get it high enough in some geometries...
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Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

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post #59 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
Make sure your hoist will do 600lbs with the boom fully extended; you need that.

It's hard to get it high enough in some geometries...
Did some reading on it, for only $70 more I can get a 2 ton that can handle 1/2 ton (1000lbs) fully extended along with a 2 ton load leveler.

Canceling the first order, then will order the other one. Thanks for the advice!

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #60 of 286 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 12:21 PM
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Yeah good call, 1 ton cranes are good for Civics, I think it could be done but it would be a real fight. These engines weigh about 500lbs, 420ish for aluminum block 2Vs
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-Matt
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