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post #61 of 289 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 08:23 PM Thread Starter
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I have been searching the forums, I don't have a lift, my jack goes up 11", and while I can afford a set of jackstands that go up 23", I can't afford a jack that goes that high. That said, I've seen a couple of guys say that they have installed the kooks to the engine while it's out, and installed it from the top, but does that still require removal of the K?

All of the pics are non-functional, so I'm having trouble visualizing it.

What I thought I could do is get the motor partway in, then thread the headers in and tighten them up while they're out. Stage 8 locking bolts will be purchased, but is that viable plan?

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post #62 of 289 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 08:27 PM
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No need to remove the K-member when installing the engine with the Kooks installed.

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post #63 of 289 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 10:26 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racecougar View Post
No need to remove the K-member when installing the engine with the Kooks installed.

Awesome, so it's snug but will work. Thanks!

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #64 of 289 (permalink) Old 05-29-2016, 10:53 PM
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Yep, it's definitely snug to the shock towers going in.
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post #65 of 289 (permalink) Old 05-31-2016, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
I have been searching the forums, I don't have a lift, my jack goes up 11", and while I can afford a set of jackstands that go up 23", I can't afford a jack that goes that high.
Wood blocks are your friend. I have an assortment of 2x4's and 2x10's. Sometimes I have to use two 2x10's stacked to get a car really high, basically two 10"x10"x2" pieces of wood.

I always use a piece of wood, even if I don't need the extra height, to keep from scratching the paint off the frame.

The cup on the jack makes an indentation in the wood to hold it in place. They do sometimes start to crack, just chuck it and make another.

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post #66 of 289 (permalink) Old 05-31-2016, 11:15 AM Thread Starter
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Things are coming along. Picking up the engine today or tomorrow.

Since I'm getting it tuned for the headers and cams, is it worth it to get it tuned for a 180* thermostat? Will that make a difference at all? Car has up to now been running right around 200* on my aftermarket gauge.

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post #67 of 289 (permalink) Old 05-31-2016, 12:14 PM
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If you are putting in a 180 t-stat, have them tune for it. Really the only difference in the tune is when to turn the fan on, so it shouldn't cost you anything extra. Realistically though, you probably won't notice any difference in performance between running the 180 or the stock 195.
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post #68 of 289 (permalink) Old 05-31-2016, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
If you are putting in a 180 t-stat, have them tune for it. Really the only difference in the tune is when to turn the fan on, so it shouldn't cost you anything extra. Realistically though, you probably won't notice any difference in performance between running the 180 or the stock 195.
That's my main question. I don't really need heat, the car doesn't get driven in the winter, spring, summer, and fall is all. I didn't know if the 180* would give more potential performance, or allow for any with the engine running cooler. Any downsides to running cooler than "stock"? Fuel economy issues, anything like that?

I didn't think it would make the tune cost more, more worried about it "costing" me any reliability or anything on the motor.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #69 of 289 (permalink) Old 05-31-2016, 08:11 PM
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The info I've read, due to thermal dynamics a lower Coolant temp results in less HP (more of the combustion temp goes into the cooling system). I personally give up this ~2-3% HP for greater cushion against overheating.

As with any lose in power, yes there is also an increase in emissions (this is why GM runs a 190°+ tstat) and reduction in fuel economy.
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post #70 of 289 (permalink) Old 05-31-2016, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bowez View Post
The info I've read, due to thermal dynamics a lower Coolant temp results in less HP (more of the combustion temp goes into the cooling system). I personally give up this ~2-3% HP for greater cushion against overheating.

As with any lose in power, yes there is also an increase in emissions (this is why GM runs a 190°+ tstat) and reduction in fuel economy.
After I asked the question, I did a little googling myself and found several sources that said the same thing. Bearing that in mind, I'll keep the 195* unit I installed in October 2014.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #71 of 289 (permalink) Old 05-31-2016, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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One other question...

Current plan is the Mountaineer motor, 195* thermostat, Kooks, MHS NA Stage 2 cams, going to convert to COP. I have the CAI properly being fed through the fenderwell, going to use my underdrive pulleys, no cats, full 2.5" exhaust.

What spark plugs should I use?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #72 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 06:03 AM
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I'd run a 180* tstat, as it will allow a little more ignition advance. NGK TR6 plugs would work well with that setup.
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post #73 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 08:59 PM Thread Starter
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Reading over the Explorer engine swap sticky.

If I convert to COP, I can use the explorer front cover right?

If not, and I leave it Coil Pack, I have to get a 94-95 front cover because the 96-97 won't seal properly? Or is there a port I can seal up with RTV? Will it be somewhat obvious as I do it, or should I just go ahead and use the Explorer cover?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #74 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 09:12 PM
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As I said way above about the explorer cover, it has no provisions for the current power steering pump mounting location, it mounts above it using the cylinder head bosses, rather than the block.nyou could make it work but you need to make a custom power steering line and cobble up a lower radiator hose extension for the necessary explorer filter adapter. Benefit is though no need for a remote oil filter anymore, it will be much more accessible.
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post #75 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 09:25 PM Thread Starter
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As I said way above about the explorer cover, it has no provisions for the current power steering pump mounting location, it mounts above it using the cylinder head bosses, rather than the block.nyou could make it work but you need to make a custom power steering line and cobble up a lower radiator hose extension for the necessary explorer filter adapter. Benefit is though no need for a remote oil filter anymore, it will be much more accessible.
I already have the correct braided hoses for the oil filter remote mount. But if I use the explorer front cover, why can't I just use the explorer power steering pump? I was planning on following your guide on the AN power steering line already.

My thinking was, just swap over the explorer power steering, use explorer belt routing, etc. Then, I shouldn't have to fuss with the covers too much.


Or, if none of that works out properly, will the 96-07 font cover bolt up? I suppose I just don't undestand if the motors all are essentially the same, why the covers don't interchange.

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2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #76 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 09:39 PM
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There'd be no point to using a remote filter with the explorer timing cover setup, the Explorer filter adapter puts the oil filter right out front, and anyplace you'd be remoting it to from there couldn't be any more convenient... Unless you went 60s Ferrari style and mounted it in front of the intake manifold lol. The power steering pump itself you just reuse from your car, only the lines need to be modified, it's the same mounting pattern, it's just higher.

All bolts line up on the 96-97 cover except for the one right below the water pump. For whatever reason the Romeo cast blocks moved that boss on the block for 1996 and beyond, while Windsor(iron and aluminum, aka WAP) and Teksid cast blocks retained the 91-95 pattern, so when using the Explorer motor with said WAP block you'd need the older Romeo cover for all the bolt holes to line up. Or just half ass it and RTV the crap out of the misaligned bolt area
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post #77 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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There'd be no point to using a remote filter with the explorer timing cover setup, the Explorer filter adapter puts the oil filter right out front, and anyplace you'd be remoting it to from there couldn't be any more convenient... Unless you went 60s Ferrari style and mounted it in front of the intake manifold lol. The power steering pump itself you just reuse from your car, only the lines need to be modified, it's the same mounting pattern, it's just higher.

All bolts line up on the 96-97 cover except for the one right below the water pump. For whatever reason the Romeo cast blocks moved that boss on the block for 1996 and beyond, while Windsor(iron and aluminum, aka WAP) and Teksid cast blocks retained the 91-95 pattern, so when using the Explorer motor with said WAP block you'd need the older Romeo cover for all the bolt holes to line up. Or just half ass it and RTV the crap out of the misaligned bolt area
So even with my 1989 SC sway bar the Explorer oil filter setup will work fine? I know the Explorer cover doesn't have Coil provisions, but I can probably fab something up for that, if I don't go with the COP setup.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #78 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
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As much as I hate being without my bird, buying Kooks is on the plan. For the money, I may go with the MAC longtubes like in the thread here, and have one of the primaries modified to clear the steering shaft. They're a lot less expensive, but the Kooks would be so much nicer.
It's 2 primaries, not 1.
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post #79 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-01-2016, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
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So even with my 1989 SC sway bar the Explorer oil filter setup will work fine? I know the Explorer cover doesn't have Coil provisions, but I can probably fab something up for that, if I don't go with the COP setup.
Sway bar shouldn't be an issue at all . Here's where the filter comes out(this is a 3V in a Foxbody but the filter adapter and belt routing is the same as the 2V Explorer)

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post #80 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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It's 2 primaries, not 1.
Ooops, thanks!

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2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #81 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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Sway bar shouldn't be an issue at all . Here's where the filter comes out(this is a 3V in a Foxbody but the filter adapter and belt routing is the same as the 2V Explorer)

Will the underdrive pulleys I have swap over even though the belt routing is slightly different? I'll want to use an Explorer belt, right?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #82 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 11:56 AM
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Yes and yes, the difference in size between the underdrive crank and wp equal out so the same belt can be used, just as is now.
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post #83 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 12:06 PM Thread Starter
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Yes and yes, the difference in size between the underdrive crank and wp equal out so the same belt can be used, just as is now.
THat's what I was hoping, and while I have the crank pulley off, I'll replace that seal as well.

Thanks!

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #84 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 02:31 PM
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If you get the felpro timing cover gasket set it actually comes with a new crank pulley seal as well
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post #85 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 07:00 PM
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When you install it, make sure you miss the groove in the crank from the last seal.

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Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

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post #86 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog6 View Post
When you install it, make sure you miss the groove in the crank from the last seal.
I'm not sure I follow? the seal seals against the dampener, not the crank

-Matt
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post #87 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-02-2016, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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Got a call from the salvage yard today. He pulled the motor and not only was it an iron block (someone had swapped the motor before it hit the junkyard apparently) but it also had a big hole in it where it threw a rod.

So no motor for me right now.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #88 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-03-2016, 09:24 AM
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Lame sauce man. Maybe that motor I showed you is still available? Though, it's pretty far from you IIRC.
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post #89 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-03-2016, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Lame sauce man. Maybe that motor I showed you is still available? Though, it's pretty far from you IIRC.
I was on the computer hunting last night, my search-fu is very strong. Found some Explorer motors for $600, Aviators for $1100, one Explorer motor with 158K on it in Grand Marais (2 hours from me) for $300, but I have to pull it, and a 2005 Crown Vic motor with COP but missing an alternator for $350 only an hour from me. So even though it weighs the same as what I have now, I'll take it, cam it, headers, and plop it in the car once I do the head gaskets and other fun stuff to it, unless you guys think the 158k Explorer motor's weight loss is worth it.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #90 of 289 (permalink) Old 06-03-2016, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodman View Post
Got a call from the salvage yard today. He pulled the motor and not only was it an iron block (someone had swapped the motor before it hit the junkyard apparently) but it also had a big hole in it where it threw a rod.

So no motor for me right now.
Whoever owned that explorer previously REALLY must have been abusive to kill not one but TWO 4.6s catastrophically!


If I were in your boat(which I somewhat am, although I have a motor, na nana naa nah lol) I'd chose the most expediant solution to keep the car mobile. Once you down it for longterm projects with major missing parts it becomes very easy to prolong and lose interest in it, personally I know quite a few people whose projects went that way. Do the crown Vic motor(if it's truly good) and move the battery to the trunk to get weight off the nose(it ain't 80 lbs difference like the block but it's more than half)
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-Matt
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