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post #121 of 272 (permalink) Old 06-24-2016, 01:29 PM
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The one on the engine
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post #122 of 272 (permalink) Old 06-24-2016, 01:45 PM Thread Starter
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The one on the engine
Ok, gotcha.

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post #123 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 08:48 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, new question about exhaust headers.

Plans are coming together for the Explorer motor, a set of Kooks has come to my attention, but hey have 3" collectors, so I assume that they are the large tube variety. So here's the question...

Explorer block, stock pistons, stock rotating assembly, stock to mildly ported heads (if my PI heads are still good), MHS Stage 2 NA cams, degreed, 2.5" exhaust with mid mount dual in/out magnaflow and chambered mufflers at the ends of the pipes. My car has no catalysts on it, it's straight pipe from the manifolds to the mid mount magnaflow.

Would the big tube headers be "too much" for the motor?

Would going from 3" to 2.5" past the collector cause issues? Going to use stepped pipe to make a smooth transition.

I have no plans to go forced induction, so am I better off going with the smaller tube headers, or taking the deal on the big tube/collector headers?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.

Last edited by Woodman; 07-13-2016 at 09:36 PM.
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post #124 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 09:26 PM
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The smaller tube headers would probably make marginally more power in the midrange, but the difference is nothing you would ever notice, so if you are getting a good deal on the larger ones, just go ahead and run them.
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post #125 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-13-2016, 09:31 PM Thread Starter
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The smaller tube headers would probably make marginally more power in the midrange, but the difference is nothing you would ever notice, so if you are getting a good deal on the larger ones, just go ahead and run them.
Awesome, thanks!

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PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #126 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Ok, having difficulty getting the rear collector to downpipe nut off on the driver side. All the other 3 were 15mm, but my 15mm socket slips. Anyone know what size that one is? 14 won't go on unless I'm just using too long of one. My 15mm box end wrench doesn't sit well on it, nor can I turn it anyway. Trying to avoid cutting if I can.
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post #127 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 11:54 AM
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Could try a standard 9/16".
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post #128 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 06:52 PM Thread Starter
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It is a 15mm, My problem is I have a very eclectic collection of sockets. My impact socket was too long, my standard 6 point was too short.

The other big pain in the butt was the motor mount bolts. Fought them for an hour with my mechanic friend, but we finally got it. Have the transmission unbolted, but our wives were calling us in for dinner, so the engine will come out next week.

On the bad news front, coolant in a spark plug well on the 3rd cylinder back on the driver side. No evidence of leaks from the intake manifold, so we'll see what happens when I pull the head.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #129 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 08:37 PM
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Coolant in the spark plug well can't possibly come from anywhere else, gotta be the gasket or heater outlet on the intake.

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post #130 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 08:50 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Coolant in the spark plug well can't possibly come from anywhere else, gotta be the gasket or heater outlet on the intake.
I'll take some pics. Throwing a rod and botching up the head couldn't cause it?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #131 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 09:10 PM
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No way, the only way for coolant to get into the spark plug well is from the outside of the engine. The piston tends to take the brunt of the damage anyway, the head is very strong.

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post #132 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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No way, the only way for coolant to get into the spark plug well is from the outside of the engine. The piston tends to take the brunt of the damage anyway, the head is very strong.
So what am I looking for on the intake manifold?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #133 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 09:13 PM
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Either the gasket or the heater outlet

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post #134 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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Either the gasket or the heater outlet
Heater is on passenger side isn't it? I'm inclined to think the gasket, as I found duct tape residue interfering with the seal on the passenger side gasket (but no water on that side, water is in third cylinder back on driver side).

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #135 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-17-2016, 09:56 PM
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Ugh use proper nomenclature lol I saw cylinder 3 I thought you meant cylinder 3! This is cylinder 7
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post #136 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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Ugh use proper nomenclature lol I saw cylinder 3 I thought you meant cylinder 3! This is cylinder 7
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Originally Posted by Woodman
On the bad news front, coolant in a spark plug well on the 3rd cylinder back on the driver side.
I don't know the firing order off the top of my head yet, sorry. That's why I was specific on which cylinder it was in relation to the motor.
I'll take a look at the gasket on that side tonight though when I go to mow my yard.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #137 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 05:58 PM
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The cylinders aren't labeled by their firing order. The cylinder numbers are:

Passenger side: 1, 2, 3, 4

Driver side: 5, 6, 7, 8
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post #138 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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The cylinders aren't labeled by their firing order. The cylinder numbers are:

Passenger side: 1, 2, 3, 4

Driver side: 5, 6, 7, 8
Gotcha. If my conrod broke at TDC, is it possible the high pressure bending the valve could have warped the head enough to screw up the head gasket allowing a coolant leak? Up till loss of oil pressure, had 0 issues with the car, no misfires, etc. Whatever happened happened when I killed the motor. Couldn't see any obvious flaws in the intake manifold or the gasket.

However, I did see this...


Does this mean I have a throttle body spacer already? If so, sweet... One less bolt on to buy.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #139 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 07:32 PM
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This is what a bad valve does, you can see for yourself which fares better





And no, you're still not grasping Occam's razor - The coolant would need to defy gravity and many other obstacles to somehow get into a vertical tube above the cylinder if the head gasket were the source.

And yes that's a placebo...err intake spacer
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post #140 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-18-2016, 08:20 PM Thread Starter
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This is what a bad valve does, you can see for yourself which fares better





And no, you're still not grasping Occam's razor - The coolant would need to defy gravity and many other obstacles to somehow get into a vertical tube above the cylinder if the head gasket were the source.

And yes that's a placebo...err intake spacer
All right. Well, I am putting new gaskets on, we have to wait for the autopsy to begin before I find out if I'm re-using my heads or not (just because they're ported) and I know the spacer does next to nothing, but at least I don't have to waste money on it.

I'll keep an eye on the intake, and keep the intake for the explorer in case I need to swap. I'm not tolerating any leaks.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #141 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-19-2016, 10:51 AM
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Have you pulled the intake off to inspect the gaskets? The coolant in the spark plug tubes is always the gaskets as coolant flows through the front and rear of the intake manifold per intake / engine design. When I did my PI intake / cams swap, the intake manifold gaskets were completely shot giving me both coolant and oil in the spark plug tubes in all of the passenger side spark plug tubes. If you remember, at the time I was completely green to this engine and parked the car because the leak had gotten down to the spark plug firing pin on cylinder 3 causing a misfire.











Quote:
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This is what a bad valve does, you can see for yourself which fares better

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...xploder001.jpg

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j1...xploder004.jpg

And no, you're still not grasping Occam's razor - The coolant would need to defy gravity and many other obstacles to somehow get into a vertical tube above the cylinder if the head gasket were the source.

And yes that's a placebo...err intake spacer
That head and cylinder were in fine working order!!! They didn't need to be pulled

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post #142 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-19-2016, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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I have the intake, the gaskets look ok to me, but I don't honestly know. I'll take pictures tonight and let you guys see.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #143 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-19-2016, 06:07 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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This is what a bad valve does, you can see for yourself which fares better
...


And yes that's a placebo...err intake spacer
Holey Piston, Matt!

Nice Pix! Was that yours?

I bent one, but it didn't go that far.


Like you said, that spacer is not a worthwhile upgrade.

It increases plenum volume ~1 cu. in., not even a 1% difference.

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post #144 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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So I have a dilemma,

There's an 02 Mountaineer, 4.6V8 in a yard that will sell me the motor for $400, but they have no keys, can't tell me the mileage because they car was sold to them by a body shop after the cars in his yard got vandalized. The wiring harness is cut, but I could always swap over my harness and do without the Coil on Plug for now.

Is it worth the risk?

The guy with the running one for $300 keeps not getting me a video of it running, and stalls on me picking it up.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #145 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 04:15 PM
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Does the $400 come with 30-90day warranty? If so I would go with that.
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post #146 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Does the $400 come with 30-90day warranty? If so I would go with that.
30 day warranty. I figure worst comes to worst, I can swap the oil pan, fill it with oil/coolant and fire it up, see if it runs. IF not, back it goes.

Guy was very honest with me, told me he couldn't get mileage, etc off it, but the shop that he got it from said it was in for body repair, was hit in the rear. No issues with engine that they knew of.

Picking it up this weekend. Wish me luck.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #147 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 04:26 PM Thread Starter
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30 day warranty. I figure worst comes to worst, I can swap the oil pan, fill it with oil/coolant and fire it up, see if it runs. IF not, back it goes.

Guy was very honest with me, told me he couldn't get mileage, etc off it, but the shop that he got it from said it was in for body repair, was hit in the rear. No issues with engine that they knew of.

Picking it up this weekend. Wish me luck.

Since I'm getting new cams, and doing timing chains, are they Cloyes ones worth getting from Rock Auto, or should I get the Ford ones?

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PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #148 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
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Holey Piston, Matt!

Nice Pix! Was that yours?

I bent one, but it didn't go that far.


Like you said, that spacer is not a worthwhile upgrade.

It increases plenum volume ~1 cu. in., not even a 1% difference.
That came from the Explorer block I was going to build before the DOHC. The guy we(machusta and I went in on a deal for different parts off it) said it had a miss and a tapping noise

Quote:
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Since I'm getting new cams, and doing timing chains, are they Cloyes ones worth getting from Rock Auto, or should I get the Ford ones?
I'd just get the Ford ones, they'll outlast the rest of the motor three times over, I always reuse them personally.
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post #149 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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So what makes the Motorcraft timing set worth $400?

Cloyes used to be a good name in timing sets, they make a few sets for the 4.6 2v, are they worth buying, or just get the Motorcraft?

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97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #150 of 272 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 07:50 PM Thread Starter
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Location: Duluth, MN
Age: 42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
That came from the Explorer block I was going to build before the DOHC. The guy we(machusta and I went in on a deal for different parts off it) said it had a miss and a tapping noise



I'd just get the Ford ones, they'll outlast the rest of the motor three times over, I always reuse them personally.
Didn't see your earlier reply.
So I may not even need to replace the chains?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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