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post #181 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-03-2016, 06:36 PM Thread Starter
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Look what came today...




That should help keep the headers from backing out.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #182 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-04-2016, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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So as I'm getting the dead engine torn down, I start to wonder...
With the new stage two cams going in, should I get better valve springs? If so, what kind? Will the machine shop install them when they port the heads?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #183 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-04-2016, 05:25 PM
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If the Machine shop has the ability to remove them they have the ability to install them, there's nothing to it really. I'd definitely upgrade.
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post #184 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-04-2016, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
If the Machine shop has the ability to remove them they have the ability to install them, there's nothing to it really. I'd definitely upgrade.
I'm seriously considering the MHS Stock Mod heads...

The MHS Stage Two PI Cams with TFS Adjustable gears, degree service, and the springs is $1000, and the shop near me who will port the heads/valve job is another $1000 to $1200.

The Stock Mod heads are $ bowl ported, have a multi angle valve job (is that a three angle?), the S2 cams, the TFS gears, degreed, and with the s2 springs we're looking at $1945.

I figure money is about the same, and they'll ship to me complete and ready to bolt on.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #185 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-04-2016, 06:26 PM
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Anyone know who ports MHS' stuff now?

Nick always said that had proven impossible to teach...
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post #186 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-04-2016, 09:58 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone know who ports MHS' stuff now?

Nick always said that had proven impossible to teach...
Jordan is the one who keeps replying to the emails, and they reply quick today. I'm getting responses right away.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #187 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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And the cause of death is...

Bearing failure on mains 2, 3, and 4. Possibly #5 as well, but I don't have a thin wall socket to get it off until later.

Here's pics.


Timing equipment looks great. I should be able to bolt this stuff onto the WAP block and re-use it right?






Should I be able to squeeze the tensioners by hand like this?



Chain guides look brand new. Should be re-usable, right?


This is my first tear down, but should there be that much residue on the pistons? What's the cause of that?


All valves are intact, heads appear good, head gaskets appear good. I think the heads are salvageable. I'm hoping that cracked cam girdle may be due to an overenthusiastic spring retainer install.







Bores look good and clean. I think i can sell the block as either a core or to someone who is going to rebuild it. I could get it bored and sleeved to 3.7", put in a stroker kit, TFS heads, and make some serious power down the road...


FINALLY! Some evidence! This is the main bearing cap #2.



More metal...


Main #1


Main Cap #1


Main #2, not good...


And it spun main bearing #2...


Cap #3 appears to be missing something...


Oh, there's the missing bearing!



That's not a good thing there...


And there's main bearing 3. Not good.

But, on the good news front, the heads look good, the block looks good, would need a new crank, new connecting rods, maybe I should get it big bored/sleeved and put in a stroker kit, get a nice 323ci powerhouse out of it while I drive the suped up Explorer motor.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #188 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 02:34 PM
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Yeah those heads look A-Ok, I'd pull the caps and check the cam bores to be sure. Piston tops always look like that, it's just carbon buildup.

Edit: and yes, the tensioners are compressible by hand, you're only acting against a spring, it won't be so easy to compress under oil pressure. Guides look fine to me as well.
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post #189 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Yeah those heads look A-Ok, I'd pull the caps and check the cam bores to be sure. Piston tops always look like that, it's just carbon buildup.

Edit: and yes, the tensioners are compressible by hand, you're only acting against a spring, it won't be so easy to compress under oil pressure. Guides look fine to me as well.
I'll open them up tomorrow. Thanks for the word on the tensioners. I just stick a small screwdriver in and lock them back down with a paperclip right? Are they supposed to have a gasket on them?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #190 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 05:11 PM
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Yeah if you didn't know, screwdriver in the bigger hole, paperclip in the smaller one. There's no gaskets for them, just make sure the two surfaces are clean.

-Matt
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post #191 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 05:36 PM
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Ok, I'll finally speak up.

I have no idea what that thing is under the valve cover... I worked a lot of late nights, perhaps it snuck in while I was asleep standing up.

I'm thinking the water pump is the newer (2000 and up) version. I got a steal on the underdrives but they were for the newer water pump. Since I was putting a new pump in anyway I got one that fit the pullies.

There is a spacer under the plenum, forgot why it is there. There is a throttle body spacer. The TB and plenum I purchased were from a Mustang GT and there is a difference between the Tbird plenum and the Mustang Plenum. One longer and angled (I think the OEM onen is) The spacer is to make up that difference and make the throttle cables the right length.

Other than that I think you already know more than I ever did. Can't wait to see how it runs.

Edit: Oh yea, that sending unit in the block that wasn't connected to anything was for a mechanical temp gauge. The capillary line was broken while removing the engine.
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1997 Thunderbird Sport
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destined to remain stock

1997 T-Bird GT 4.6
80 MM Mustang GT MAF - P&P'd Mustang GT TB and Intake Plenum - PI Intake manifold - PI Heads
Mark VIII Torque Converter - J-Modded 4R70W transmission - Mark VIII Aluminum Driveshaft - 3.73 gears
PBR Brake Calipers - Eibach Springs - KYB Shocks
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SCT Chip programmed by Lonnie Doll
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<<< SOLD >>>

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post #192 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 06:13 PM
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Looks like its rebuildable, either turn the crank or new, looks like all that is needed.
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93 SC Tbird
MPII w/ Plenum,90mm MAF, 85mm TB, 40# Injectors, 255 lph FP, Double IC w/fan, SCT Chip (Tuned by Jerry),3/4" Raised Top, F52-TT TC, SilverFox AOD 550, SPT-R VB
96 1/2 XR7 Sold and Salvaged
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post #193 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 10:41 PM Thread Starter
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Ok, I'll finally speak up.

I have no idea what that thing is under the valve cover... I worked a lot of late nights, perhaps it snuck in while I was asleep standing up.

I'm thinking the water pump is the newer (2000 and up) version. I got a steal on the underdrives but they were for the newer water pump. Since I was putting a new pump in anyway I got one that fit the pullies.

There is a spacer under the plenum, forgot why it is there. There is a throttle body spacer. The TB and plenum I purchased were from a Mustang GT and there is a difference between the Tbird plenum and the Mustang Plenum. One longer and angled (I think the OEM onen is) The spacer is to make up that difference and make the throttle cables the right length.

Other than that I think you already know more than I ever did. Can't wait to see how it runs.

Edit: Oh yea, that sending unit in the block that wasn't connected to anything was for a mechanical temp gauge. The capillary line was broken while removing the engine.
Thanks Traveler! The engine ran great up till I killed it (unintentionally). I'll be more careful about hose routing from now on that's for sure.

And look what came today just before I left for date night with my wife...



Going to mount the old manifolds onto the pipe, set these beside them, and measure up where to cut the pipes.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #194 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 10:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Looks like its rebuildable, either turn the crank or new, looks like all that is needed.
That's what I was thinking too... May sell the block and try to recoup some money.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #195 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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I'm digging into the Explorer a little until my friend can come by and help me get it on the engine stand. I noticed a cut wire, very thin gauge, didn't look stock. It clearly isn't stock, was tied into the fuel rail plugin at the front of the driver side. Simply wrapped around a stripped section of the harness wire, and electrically taped on. It's on a long line, the ground wire was cut, but it's very long, looks like it fed into a grommet into the cabin.

Any ideas what it was there for?



97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #196 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-06-2016, 08:29 PM
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WAG, injector kill switch or engine running signal.
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93 SC Tbird
MPII w/ Plenum,90mm MAF, 85mm TB, 40# Injectors, 255 lph FP, Double IC w/fan, SCT Chip (Tuned by Jerry),3/4" Raised Top, F52-TT TC, SilverFox AOD 550, SPT-R VB
96 1/2 XR7 Sold and Salvaged
93 5.0 Tbird
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post #197 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 11:50 AM Thread Starter
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Called Jordan at MHS today, got a set of StockMod heads with Stage 2 cams on their way to me, said I should have them in a week or so.

Getting closer!

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #198 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-13-2016, 11:08 PM Thread Starter
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So now that the heads are on the way, here's my shopping list for gaskets/sensors...
Quote:
Engine : Timing Cover Gasket Set
FEL-PRO TCS46064 Info


Engine : Oil Pan Gasket
FEL-PRO OS30725R {#3L3Z6710AA, OS34307R} PermaDry® Info


Engine : Valve Cover Gasket
FEL-PRO VS50564R PermaDry® Info

Engine : Intake Manifold Gasket
FEL-PRO MS96281 Set Info


Engine : Crankshaft Seal
TIMKEN 5277 {#E2ZE6701A4A, E6ZE6701A2A} Info

1997 FORD THUNDERBIRD 4.6L V8
Ignition : Camshaft Position Sensor
DELPHI SS10058 {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} Info

Ignition : Crankshaft Position Sensor
DELPHI SS10875 {#1W7Z6C315AB} Info
I am getting the FRPP head changing kit from MHS, a Motocraft high volume oil pump from Ebay, and a closed vane water pump from the link earlier.

Am I missing anything?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #199 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-14-2016, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Headers are primed with VHT Flame Proof header primer. Iron Grey VHT Flame Proof will go on next, then cured in my old gas grill


97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #200 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 08:35 AM Thread Starter
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Is there any difference between the PI intake on the 2003 Explorer motor vs the PI intake off the Mustang that I currently have? The crossover has all the same port outlets on it as far as I can see.

Any performance difference, or are we good to swap?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #201 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 09:11 AM
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Explorer won't have the heater core coolant outlet at the rear, otherwise it's identical

-Matt
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post #202 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 09:22 AM Thread Starter
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Explorer won't have the heater core coolant outlet at the rear, otherwise it's identical
GOtcha, thanks.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #203 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Today's progress... Painted the headers with VHT Flame Proof header coating. It's supposed to be a ceramic coating, keep the heat in without trapping moisture like header wrap. I'm planning on getting a heat shield for the starter just in case, but I figure it's worth the time getting it done.
I'm no paint guy, and headers aren't the easiest things to paint by any means, but other than a couple of drips and runs, it looks pretty good if I do say so myself.











One other unrelated to headers question... Should I continue to run Mobil 1 0w30, or since I am going to a 2003 Explorer motor go to 0w20 instead for the "free" horsepower/increased efficiency?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #204 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 02:04 PM
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After spinning a rod bearing on 5w20 I'm never running oil that thin ever again, I'm using Rotella 5w40 on my build.

Headers look good, should actually stay that way too since Kooks are stainless. I'm dubious about the insulating effects of the paint though, it's not a real ceramic coating by any means

-Matt
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post #205 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 02:12 PM Thread Starter
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After spinning a rod bearing on 5w20 I'm never running oil that thin ever again, I'm using Rotella 5w40 on my build.

Headers look good, should actually stay that way too since Kooks are stainless. I'm dubious about the insulating effects of the paint though, it's not a real ceramic coating by any means
Duly noted. 0w30 it shall be.

These Kooks are definitely NOT stainless. They are the ones that came "Jet Hot" coated (which baked right off under the previous owner's ownership) and they had spots of surface rust on them already when I got them. Nothing a few seconds worth of sanding, then cleaning with acetone, then wax/grease remover, then VHT Flame Proof primer and paint.

They are Kooks though, they have the stamp on the top tube.

Going to start building soon, since it's a pure PI, what plugs should I go with? No forced induction, but larger throttle body, obviously larger exhaust (1.75" primaries and 3" collectors!) and a custom tune once built.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #206 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 03:57 PM
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You get them used? I thought all of the newer kooks were SS, with the option of coating

-Matt
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post #207 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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You get them used? I thought all of the newer kooks were SS, with the option of coating
Yes they are used. Came from a guy on the Facebook TCCOA page. You can see a little of the surface rust where he tried to polish off what remained of the JetHot in the pictures further up the thread.

I only paid $520 for the headers, the collector adapters, collector gaskets, and shipping, so I really can't complain seeing as they're close to $900 with all that from SCP. The only drawback is that they are the big tube units, so I'll lose a little midrange, but I should gain enough overall to not lose anything from what I had before.

Any word on which spark plugs to use?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #208 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 06:43 PM
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Ah I see. I always used NGK TR6 plugs, they're copper so that may or may not fit your desires

-Matt
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post #209 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-21-2016, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Ah I see. I always used NGK TR6 plugs, they're copper so that may or may not fit your desires
I'm not against copper, I know they need replaced more often, but they're efficient and put off good spark.

Besides, I'm lucky to get 5000 miles a year out of the car as it is (I can only drive it when it's not snowy, which isn't often in Minnesota), so a 20,000 mile plug change doesn't bother me.

Stock gap, or anything different considering my mods.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #210 of 272 (permalink) Old 08-22-2016, 11:01 AM Thread Starter
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So is this the "short" water pump? Traveler tells me he did all the pullies post 2000 style to work with his underdrive set.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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