Nut Job - EGR Tube, 95 LX 4.6 - TCCoA Forums

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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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Nut Job - EGR Tube, 95 LX 4.6

I removed the Dual Converter Y Pipe for better access to the EGR Tube. Long process up to this point is in a post over in Exhaust. Lower nut on the EGR Tube was in a position where because of the angle on the open end side of the wrench I couldn't hit it with a hammer, the lower end of the wrench was right up against the frame rail. I put an extension on the wrench to give me more leverage using a piece of 1 5/8 fence pipe I got from HomeDepot, squeezing it in a vice to get the box end to fit in the pipe. First tried my 3-in-1 butane mini-torch on the nut which gives good focus but not enough heat, so I blasted it the map gas. This is all after several days of periodically squirting it with PB blaster while working on other parts of the project. PB Blaster doesn't come with a red tube anymore, find an old tube and attach it anyway for better focus to squirt the nut from the top rather than from underneath. Couldn't get the nut to budge at first so heated, put the wrench and extension on it and hit with a hammer a few times, when it didn't move squirted more PB Blaster on it and let it sit a while and repeat. After about four iterations of this (of course I was extra careful so as to not damage the EGR Tube) I finally got some movement in the nut. Worked it back and forth with my 1 1/16 combination wrench and unscrewed it from the exhaust manifold. Now on to what should be the easiest part, disconnecting EGR Tube and Valve from the top.
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File Type: jpg MVC-762S.JPG (130.4 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg MVC-752S.JPG (89.1 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by Jim3inVirginia; 01-13-2017 at 04:07 PM.
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 03:29 PM
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Nice job, i was never able to get that nut off..i always ended up deleting the egr but i think your not able to do that because of emissions.
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-13-2017, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. My county in Virginia requires emission inspection every two years to renew registration, no exemption until 25 years old. My '95 is currently only good through February.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-14-2017, 10:25 AM
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Congrats on getting that bolt off. You really need a line wrench for a job like that (the kind with 6 points on it). An open end wrench a lot of time will round the nut off. I got a stubby 1 1/16" from Grainger, like $17!

Be interesting to see what the Rock Auto tube looks like. I needed one when I had my 95, though I would not have gone thru what you had to do to take it off. I could barely see the end of the tube where it connects to the exhaust manifold. I would have had no interest in going further.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 66k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 Crown Vic Police Interceptor - Brenda's car
Previous cars:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-14-2017, 12:36 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks. Didn't even think to get a flare nut wrench, didn't expect anyone made one that big.

Rock Auto shows the EGR Tube but system either rejects selection or strips it out of the shopping cart during check-out. Otherwise I would have bought one a long time ago.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-14-2017, 05:01 PM
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In my experience using an open end wrench isn't prone to rounding that nut, what usually happens that's bad is the tube seizes inside the nut and when you go to remove it you end up twisting and destroying the tube in the process.

Funny thing with that rockauto one is I've been scolded when saying the tubes were obsolete in the past, then once I learned rockauto sold them I began spreading the word, and now there are a dozen searchable posts with me linking an obsolete part. Damnit

-Matt
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-15-2017, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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Similar situation on the top connection? Looks like the top of the EGR Tube screws into the EGR Valve via a compression screw. Can't imagine getting a wrench on it when the EGR Valve is connected to the Intake Manifold. Think I'll just have to tighten the EGR Valve to the correct angle on the EGR Tube so the valve mates squarely to the Intake Manifold before I reassemble it.

The nut on the exhaust manifold is less likely to bind the tube when the nut is worked while the EGR valve is still attached to the intake manifold. I'm lucky I have plenty of time and can keep working it until it gives. Right now I'm letting the EGR tube sit with PB Blaster on the tube to valve connection and carburator cleaner in the upstream and downstream tubes. Just to make sure all this work was justified I blew into the two tubes that go to the DPFE hoses and confirmed they are clogged.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-15-2017, 08:27 PM
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Jim3inVirginia, I'm sorry, but in all of your posts on this procedure, I missed out on the reason for the removal. Was the tube damaged?

Do you realize you were just passed by a NASCAR? I didn't think so.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-15-2017, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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Bob,

Emission inspection to renew the registration per local county and state laws. Car has been giving me P0402, P1405, P1407 codes over the last couple years. It's gotten progressively worse. I've been able to fool them at the Ford dealership where I get my emission tests by resetting the MIL system before going for the inspectoin, or maybe they've been letting me slide. Four years ago the check engine light came back on on my way home from passing the emission test.

So to clean out the clogged EGR tube and improve my chances to passing the emission inspection I decided to remove it. Tube currently is not damaged and I intend to reinstall it after I clean out the clogs.

Later,
Jim
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 08:05 AM
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The top nut was the only one I got off. That's what I used the stubby line wrench for.

I could not clear out the DPFE lines either. There is apparently an orifice in the lines, which does not help. I soaked them for days with GM top engine cleaner (which is supposed to be the best), then blew 100+ psi of air pressure down the lines. All that did was swell up the rubber hose until it blew off.

The EGR valve itself will be totally clogged, FYI. But unless you can get a vintage 1995 EGR from a Ford dealer, your better off cleaning the old one. The replacement one from Ford, plus all aftermarket ones will have the vacuum port in the center, making it impossible to connect to with the plastic line.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 66k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 Crown Vic Police Interceptor - Brenda's car
Previous cars:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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This is what the inside of a 22 year old EGR valve and tube with 232K miles on it looks like.

MVC-819S.JPG


Similar situation as with the lower nut: heat it, smack it a few times, if it doesn't give then squirt some more PB Blaster, come back after it cools down and try it again. Finally gave after the fourth or fifth time.

MVC-818S.JPG


Looks like the placement of the EGR valve port will not be a problem, it's closer to the vacuum line from the EVR on the new valve than the original one.

MVC-814S.JPG
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 08:42 PM
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That's the problem, the port is too close. No way to install the plastic line without breaking it. That green line is very short.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 66k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 Crown Vic Police Interceptor - Brenda's car
Previous cars:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 09:30 PM
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see... this is where my year long torn knuckles all out drag out fist fight with my 95 Cougar, with the rear of the manifold plenum mount. I accidentally snapped off my upper orifice, reconnecting tube to valve, when the shop wanted 180 to do it.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 09:39 PM Thread Starter
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Green line is already broken. Back in 2010, before I knew anything (before I joined TCCOA, before I bought a Ford Service Manual, before I bought a code reader), I allowed my local Ford dealer to service my car, brought it in due to a check engine light. They did some diagnostics, fuel injection service, some BG products. I believe they cut the EGR valve hose in the process. Offered me to clean the EGR for about $500. I declined.

During reassembly, I'm going to reattach the throttle body adapter, bracket, and EVR and DPFE units, attach the new EGR valve to the intake manifold and see how the vacuum tube assembly fits before completely reinstalling the EGR valve with EGR tube attached. The old EGR valve is a clogged mess, got it soaking but hoping to use the new EGR valve instead.
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 07:46 AM
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I started to clean my old EGR valve when I could not find an exact fit, but the soaking got sludge into the working parts, and the valve did not go up and down fully. About the same as it did when I first took it off.

That's an interesting contraption you made to get the pipe off in the vice!

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 66k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 Crown Vic Police Interceptor - Brenda's car
Previous cars:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Al.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 04:43 PM
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To sum it up, I've witnessed a poor guy's EGR tube removal nightmare on a 1995. Currently, I have a P1407 code which I am ignoring because of two things: the car runs great, in my part of Oregon, my car is exempt from emissions testing because it is over 20 years old. If I lived up north, I'd likely be in the same situation as Jim.

Since it has been pointed out how removing the cowl gives access to the EGR valve, I feel a bit better about delving into seeing what it will take to get the CEL turned off. For now, until I feel like working in cold weather, a nice piece of gaffer's tape is working nicely over the CEL.

Do you realize you were just passed by a NASCAR? I didn't think so.
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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 07:46 AM
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Removing the cowl gives access to a lot of things. I have done it too many times. You start to get good at it!

Remove the screws for the windshield trim with the hood shut. Then there are various 8mm & 10mm bolts, and two bastard 7mm's! I started leaving the wiper motor attached and just unplug it (I hate unplugging stuff, the connectors always break!). Be careful when handling the cowl and pulling the rubber hoses off the wiper washer plastic tubes, they are brittle.

Then, if the car is outside, you have to cover the vent opening if it's going to rain.

Al
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97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 66k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 Crown Vic Police Interceptor - Brenda's car
Previous cars:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6
what usually happens that's bad is the tube seizes inside the nut and when you go to remove it you end up twisting and destroying the tube in the process.
This has been my experience removing some EGR tubes as well..
Although, I think if the tube has never been removed and then overtightened upon reinstallation..Jim's method would work well..

Starting with a flare nut wrench to prevent rounding off the EGR tube nut would be helpful too..







Rayo..

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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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I put off this job for years until I could tie up the car for a couple weeks if needed. It's been needed, I've been extra cautious on things like the EGR tube nut. I haven't seen a 27 mm (1 1/16") flare nut wrench but I would have been more comfortable with that than the open end.

I made a template from the EGR valve and tube assembly that I removed, to try to assemble the new EGR valve and tube prior to installation. It didn't work. So I installed the EGR valve first, then the EGR tube. I'm not comfortable with finger tight on the connection to the EGR valve, so I ordered a 27 mm crowfoot to snug it up. I don't think I would use it on disassembly, but I couldn't think of any alternative for that top connection.
MVC-855S.JPG


While I wait for the tool on order, I'll reinstall the throttle body adapter ("elbow") and the rest of the stuff from up top. Don't forget to tape over the hole when installing the EGR valve. That would wicked suck if a screw fell in there.
MVC-854S.JPG
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 08:49 AM
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I did mention above about the stubby 1 1/16" flare nut wrench I ordered from Grainger. That is the only way I could get the nut off the valve itself. It is really tight in that area. The crowfoot will be good for install though.

On to the most important thing - how you gonna clear out those two small lines for the DPFE? Or did I miss that? I could get those clear on mine

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 66k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 Crown Vic Police Interceptor - Brenda's car
Previous cars:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years
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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 08:29 AM Thread Starter
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After I got the EGR tube off, I used general purpose mechanics wire which worked well on the main tube and the downstream (upper) port. Didn't seem to be making much progress on the upstream, lower port, closer to the source of the soot and a tighter bend then the upper port, so then I used some 3/32" cable I got at home depot, twisting the cable against the blockage, counterclockwise so it doesn't unravel and bind, then back to the mechanics wire. Fabricate a T-handle on the cable for better leverage. Of course I used plenty of carburator cleaner to soak the soot and periodically left it soaking in carburator cleaner hoping to soften the blockage. Did this over a couple of days. 1/16" cable probably would have worked better than 3/32" which fit a little tight. There is an orifice in the tube at the wrinkled part and what look like internal welds where the DPFE hose tubes connect the main tube, so mechanics wire is best for the smaller internal diameters.
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 08:54 AM
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A method I saw for cleaning small tube passages: use an old speedometer cable in a drill.

Do you realize you were just passed by a NASCAR? I didn't think so.
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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Passed the emission inspection today. I was really stressing over whether or not it would pass. Got everything put back together, went through the drive cycle, all sensors OK. Couple days later, P0402 came back. Tested the DPFE with the 6V blow procedure and tested the EVR with the powered/unpowered blow procedure and both didn't react as supposed to so I replaced them both. With the clean EGR tube and new EGR valve, essentially a whole new EGR system. Reset and another drive cycle, and let the chips fall where they may. Don't know if they had to play with it to get it to pass, but it's good for another two years!

I've got several posts in various locations about this job. I'll pull it all together in a new thread on replacing the EGR valve from start to finish.
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