Looking for recommendation for SS valves for GT40 heads - TCCoA Forums

 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-08-2017, 06:00 PM Thread Starter
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Looking for recommendation for SS valves for GT40 heads

As per this thread, I found the cause of my tbird being down on power a bit and bucking at low throttle were leaking intake valves:
Issue Solved - engine bucking/surging at partial throttle

The initial looksee from a recommended machinist is that I yes, all of my intake valves are leaking (I stopped testing after 3) which explains the loss of compression.

He's working up a full cost for me after he tears down the heads (tomorrow) but his initial reocmmendations are as follows:
1) Check each cylinder to makes ure the rings are still intact (should be OK since i didn't see any scoring but I'll double check by looking down at the top rings

2) I should consider upgrading to SS valves for at least the intake if not intake+exhaust. If these valves are indeed distorted and I go with stock valves, I'll probably need to relap the intake between races (not worth the effort + gasket costs). Other teams using 5.0s in lemons locally are getting 5+ races between teardowns with this same combination (GT40 heads + SS valves).

Since he seems cool with me buying them and having them shipped to his shop (alternative is buying them from him at $20/each -- he says yeah, he's marking them up), I wanted to see if you guys have any thoughts or a specific part suggestion.

Given how many parts are out there, I figured (IIRC, Madmikey pointed me to a specific flat top piston on summit that was half the price of what I was looking at before).

Here's what I know so far:
* GT40 heads from a 1996 Ford Explorer.
* Current valves are probably original w/ 180K mi.
* Valve seal reground when I first got the heads but then I cooked the heads pretty good (disclored oil so 300F+ very likely). This is probably why they leak

As per this FAQ (Five.Oh Info : The Ultimate Ford GT40 and GT40P Cylinder Head FAQ)
- intake valves are 1.84"
- exhaust valves are 1.54"

Here's what I found so far for SS valves
Ferrera 5000 SS Exhaust 1.55" (?) - $85
Ford 5.0L 302 351W w/GT40 FERREA 5000 Stainless Exhaust Valves Set/8 1.550+5.075 | eBay
Ferrera 5000 SS Intake 1.85" (is this the right size?): $87
Ford 5.0L 302 351W w/GT40 FERREA 5000 Stainless Intake Valves Set/8 1.850+5.075 | eBay

Might be able to make a cheaper offer on these
Ferrea 5000 Series Valves FORD 351W & GT40 Mustang 1.55 EXH 1.85 INT | eBay

I've also read about people recommending valve springs from Alex's Parts but I don't know anything about their valves.
They are made by
1.845" Intake Valves - $64.50+ship
https://www.alexsparts.com/stainless...75-x-393-351w/

Precision Engine Parts: company is based in US and make valve guides domestically but no reference to where their valves are MFG. Anyone know this company? No ISO certification quoted for their factory (something I look for when trying to determine if a company I've never heard of is legit.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2007...wns-of-valves/
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-p...ine-parts.html

1.54" Exhaust Valves - $52.50+ship
Mfg: Qualcast. based in TN. As per their intro video, All factories have ISO9000 or TS16949 certification. I suspect it's a decent product.
http://qualcast.net/

"Long tip length applications such as GT40 and GT40P heads can be converted to use .393" tip lengths on both intake and exhaust. The conversion normally requires the same retainer and lock set up as the intake making all sixteen retainers and locks the same, not staggered."

https://www.alexsparts.com/stainless...540-x-393-tip/




Q: Do the valves need to be slightly larger than stock (1.55" vs 1.54" and 1.85" vs 1.84") so the seals can be cut to fit?

Q: Are there any others SS valves I should consider?

Thanks,
-g

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Last edited by S4gunn; 02-08-2017 at 06:33 PM.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 12:33 PM Thread Starter
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FWIW, I talked to the machinist and without direct experience with the valves sold by Alex Parts, he recommends just going with the Ferrea 5K valves. The price delta of $60 doesn't justify the risk.
If I can get the bundle deal guy on eBay to sell them to me for $170, so much the better.
-g

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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 05:51 PM
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I wish I could help you. I don't have enough experience in this area. When I built my engine I went with Trick Flow heads and the valves were part of the deal.

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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-09-2017, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
I wish I could help you. I don't have enough experience in this area. When I built my engine I went with Trick Flow heads and the valves were part of the deal.
If I was do to a street engine (like my buddy's planned 302 swap into an e30), I would NOT go down the route I'm going down now. After you add the machining cost sand new valves, you would be better off buying a chinese aluminum CNC head + fancier springs/bits or just a decent entry level edelbrok/twisted/trickwhatever setup.
-g

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 07:35 AM
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It's hard to get much better than Ferrea. Have you considered going a little larger on the valves?

Don't know much about those heads, but larger valves plus a good valve job/pocket port could be a way to bump up the power a bit, with a good cam of course.

Al

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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 12:11 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
It's hard to get much better than Ferrea. Have you considered going a little larger on the valves?

Don't know much about those heads, but larger valves plus a good valve job/pocket port could be a way to bump up the power a bit, with a good cam of course.

Al
I briefly toyed with adding larger heads (just like I toyed with the idea of a 300i6 swap) but for my specific application (endurance racing and trying to stay under the radar by using old iron heads), it doesn't make sense.
- Stock valves for the GT40 heads (at least this ver) are 1.84" intake and 1.54" exhaust.
- I believe some people sell 1.90" intake and 1.6" exhaust valves but there are mixed messages about whether or not they would fit and whether or not you'll hit water. Example:
Best valve and size for GT40
- In my situation, even if I'm already set to buy valves for a mediocre head anyway, paying a machinist to install oversized valves will actually be detrimental as bigger valves will hurt torque and make power only at the higher RPMs. If I'm actually reducing the redline for longetivity in endurance racing (I think it's 5500 now but will likely setup the fuel cut to 5250 and tell my drivers to shift at 5K), I won't ever run the engine at the RPMs to make more powah.
- The only way I can see this making sense is if I was the machinist and I was racing in some series which limited you to iron heads. In that case, my labor would be free (in that scenario it would be free time vs work time). If I had the skills/time, I would also do more port work (gasket matching, etc) which cannot be that fun with iron vs aluminum heads. In that scenario though, you can find better castings for iron heads new with bigger valves already preinstalled (if budget isn't a limitation).
World Products 053040-2 Ford Windsor Sr. Complete Cylinder Heads - Free Shipping @ Speedway Motors

Bottom Line: spending this cash on GT40 heads is a stupid, stupid idea. However, paying $1350/entry to race my tbird to potentially win $500 in nickels is already a stupid idea so spending a few hundred more now to prevent me from (in theory) having to tear apart my engine again after the next race is the least dumb of my dumb ideas. Even just opening up the top end will cost $60-100 in gaskets+head bolts.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 01:27 PM
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Reminds me of an old joke. You know how to easily make a small fortune in racing? Start with a large one.

I never got limiting your rpms like that. The stock rev limiter was 6250, and that is where we set ours. With a large heavy V8 car in this racing series, the straights are where you can shine, and cutting it at 5K rpms is seriously hurting you there. I actually thought about trying to disguise a set of aluminum heads with creative use of black and brown paint, undercoating, and maybe some dirt and grease thrown on there for good measure. Of course, given this race, a case of beer on top of the intake manifold during the BS inspection would probably work just as well.

As for the head bolts, the earlier 5.0s, I think up till 92 or so, used head bolts that were not torque to yield, and could be re-used. The simple way to tell is if it has a separate washer, you can re-use it, but if it has the head of the bolt flanged, then those are TTY, and can only be used once. Either way, you might want to spring for some ARP studs at this point just to not have to worry about it again.

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
If I had the skills/time, I would also do more port work (gasket matching, etc) which cannot be that fun with iron vs aluminum heads..
Just as well, gasket matching does nothing, except maybe kill velocity with large port openings that neck down anyway. All the porting that really matters is around the valve bowl area. That's where the specialist really shines.

Al

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