Seeking advice on cyl head install (head gasket replacement)... - TCCoA Forums

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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 01:10 AM Thread Starter
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Seeking advice on cyl head install (head gasket replacement)...

All:
I just got my GT40 heads back from the machine shop and started the head installation tonight. Since it's been well over a year since I last reassembled a head, I stopped tonight before actually bolting everything down because I wanted to review a few things with you folks (as well as re-check my old DIYs -- not much info there) and other 302 head gasket DIYs.

Today:
- Scraped the block surface to remove all residue with a fresh razor.
- I then went over the entire surface with brake cleaner on a cloth to remove any residue until a wipe wouldn't bring up any dirt/oil. A faint hint of blue color from the gasket remains at some corners but nothing is near the cyl rings. IMO, this is as clean as it's going to get without pulling the engine and taking the block into the shop (not going to happen).
- I also wiped the cyl wals
- Dowels are now in place, HG placed down with the FRONT side aimed forward, and cyl head is sitting in the right spot.


My questions:
- There is nothing in the shop manual but I kind of recall Dan instructing me to dip all of the Felpro HG bolts in oil before assembly. The felpro instructions mention oiling the underside of every bolt head.
Q: Am I correct in that I need to oil these new head bolts before isntallation?

- The Felpro instructions also mention using a non-setting sealer for all bolts that go into the coolant passages (for my 302, this is all 4 short bolts on each side). Apparently, this is to prevent future coolant leakages.
I do NOT remember this step at all. The Felpro bolts already come with some white stuff on the short bolts.

Q: Is the Felpro preinstalled white stuff what they want (the Ford shop manual mentions sealer setting in 15 min) or do I need to buy something else?

This DIY mentions Permatex Form-a-gasket 2 b/c is remains sticky and doesn't harden. Since the Permatex black/RTV stuff hardens, I guess that stuff is out as well.
Head Gasket Replacement

This Felpro instruction mentions that since bolts sets are application specific, they already coat the ones necessary. Please confirm though.
Proper installation and use of T-T-Y Bolts - Fel-Pro Only


Q: Does this mean I need to rub some oil on the underside of the head bolts and then some of this permatex goo on the threads over the white stuff? Or just oil above the white stuff on the bolts?

The torque instructions seem fairly straightforward from here on out and the ones supplied by Felpro match the ones in the shop manual. Any 302 specific suggestions here (I think it the second step was to 55LB/ft and then for the last go-around you tighten another 1/4 turn for each bolt). I seem to recall for the 3.8 V6 Dan told me to use the SC block tightening specs but I dont' recall anything special for my 302.


Please advise. Thanks in advance for the guidance here. I hope to have the heads on tomorrow so I can proceed to getting the car back together in advance of my race in 3 weeks.
-g

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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
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I spoke with MadMikey today and finished the head gasket install this evening. Now i just need to reinstall the rest of the top end and retheme the car and we are off to the races.


Short answer: I was overthinking things. Just use the felpro bolts and go.

Longer answer:
- Rubbing oil n the underside of the bolt heads and along the threads is a good idea. Just don't put oil on the bottom of the bolts so the bolt bottoms out on oil vs metal.
- The white stuff on the bottom of the shorter Felpro bolts is the sealer mentioned in the instructions. Mike suggests using teflon table if your head bolts don't come with this sealer. Try not to get oil on the sealer as well while you are oiling these bolts.
- Since I keep opening up this engine, I really should consider ARP studs @ ~$100 since every head job with these throwaway TTY bolts costs me ~$40. If I ever have to touch this engine gain (or decide I'm a glutton for punishment and rebuild the spare engine I have), I'll use ARP studs.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-154-4001

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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
I spoke with MadMikey today and finished the head gasket install this evening. Now i just need to reinstall the rest of the top end and retheme the car and we are off to the races.


Short answer: I was overthinking things. Just use the felpro bolts and go.

Longer answer:
- Rubbing oil n the underside of the bolt heads and along the threads is a good idea. Just don't put oil on the bottom of the bolts so the bolt bottoms out on oil vs metal.
- The white stuff on the bottom of the shorter Felpro bolts is the sealer mentioned in the instructions. Mike suggests using teflon table if your head bolts don't come with this sealer. Try not to get oil on the sealer as well while you are oiling these bolts.
- Since I keep opening up this engine, I really should consider ARP studs @ ~$100 since every head job with these throwaway TTY bolts costs me ~$40. If I ever have to touch this engine gain (or decide I'm a glutton for punishment and rebuild the spare engine I have), I'll use ARP studs.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-154-4001
It has been 15 years since I had to install the heads on my engine so I didn't have a ton of input but everything you say sounds on target.

The only consideration for the studs is if you can get the heads off the engine in the engine compartment with studs. When I was building my engine, the buddy I have that walked me through this pointed out that many times you can't get the heads off the engine inside the engine bay with studs so they weren't necessarily going to be a benefit. Aside from that concern, the mechanical engineering aspect of studs is that they are superior to bolts because you have a more favorable loading profile on the fastener itself.

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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
It has been 15 years since I had to install the heads on my engine so I didn't have a ton of input but everything you say sounds on target.

The only consideration for the studs is if you can get the heads off the engine in the engine compartment with studs. When I was building my engine, the buddy I have that walked me through this pointed out that many times you can't get the heads off the engine inside the engine bay with studs so they weren't necessarily going to be a benefit. Aside from that concern, the mechanical engineering aspect of studs is that they are superior to bolts because you have a more favorable loading profile on the fastener itself.
Thats probably true if you leave the hood on the car. I dont. think it might become a 2 person job to lift the heads but still doable.
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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 10:20 AM
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The studs thread into the same threads as the head bolts. Once you remove the nuts off the stud, the stud itself can easily be threaded out just like a head bolt, which then makes head removal in the car no more difficult than it would be with the bolts.

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