steering maintenance. - TCCoA Forums

 9Likes
  • 1 Post By XR7-4.6
  • 1 Post By XR7-4.6
  • 1 Post By Natesriv
  • 1 Post By XR7-4.6
  • 1 Post By XR7-4.6
  • 2 Post By Kenz
  • 1 Post By Grog6
  • 1 Post By XR7-4.6
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear Poster
 
kids93bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hialeah, fl
Posts: 72
steering maintenance.

1993 TBird 5.0 auto.
going to replace rack & pinion, tie rod ends and rag joint.
posting this cause this job is better done once by purchasing a quality unit and parts.
any sugestions wil be appreciated.

1993 thunderbird 5.0 H.O A4
2003 Crown Victoria LX
1995 Camaro Z28 M6
1992 mustang LX 5.0 H.O A4
kids93bird is offline  
post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 12:53 PM
Kind of slapped together
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bossier City, LA
Age: 61
Posts: 4,450
Rack Doctor ( Mercury Cougar Rack And Pinion ).

The rag joint is NLA; there's been forum posts on "the steering shaft mod" which will have info on what you'll need to do to replace the rag joint. They're mostly done to fit headers; but the same setup will work without headers.

If you don't get the outer ends from TRD, then I'd recommend ACDelco Professional Grade or Advanced Technology or Raybestos PG or AT; the Moog bellows failed inside of a year for me, and the tie rod end boots likewise don't seem to last like Moog did when I was a kid forty years ago.

BTW - BTDT for now TWO racks; the A1 Cardone was not worth the money, alas. The Rack Doctor unit seems to be holding up a LOT better. (Overall, on line, the concensus is "We don't know how good customer service is at Rack Doctor, our rack hasn't failed and we've not needed them." )

RwP

Fuelly
RalphP is online now  
post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 02:09 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,407
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Steering shaft mod shouldn't even be in your vocabulary, just get a 3/4" 36 spline to 3/4" DD universal joint and a short section of DD shaft to join it to the stock coupler. The steering shaft mod changes geometry, this just changes rack couplers with the same geometry.

Is your rack leaking or do you just perceive it being "worn out"? If it's the latter just replace the inner tie rods and be done with it, a lot of people tend to not realize those are serviceable. And remanufactured racks often being dicey, maximizing the life of the existing one is the better solution if at all possible. If the seals are shot, well, cross your fingers. The big issue with remans is that they sometimes neglect resleeving the spool valve cylinder, which gets grooves worn into it by the seals from years of service, and fluid will ultimately seep past and into the driver's side bellow if they're deep enough.
Woodman likes this.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 02:44 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
Natesriv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kansas City
Age: 47
Posts: 315
Garage
I'm interested in this too. My 93 seems to feel every jolt in the road through the wheel and it seems to wander more than other cars I've had....


And how easy is it to swap out the rack & pinion?
Natesriv is offline  
post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 03:13 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,407
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natesriv View Post
I'm interested in this too. My 93 seems to feel every jolt in the road through the wheel and it seems to wander more than other cars I've had....


And how easy is it to swap out the rack & pinion?
Again, it's not the rack, it's the inner or outer tie rods(or something else, or just alignment). You're throwing your money away and opening up the possibility of infinite frustration with crappy remans for no good reason.


It's the probably hardest single part to replace on this chassis.
Woodman likes this.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 04:30 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 54
Posts: 8,251
I bought an upgrade from DLF that included the pieces to make the flaming river joint work, and the joint.

It's a straight-up bolt in.

IDK if Jay picked up those parts with the suspension parts, but it might be worth asking.

I think only the D piece is custom, but it's stainless, and the joint isn't cheap.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

"Never said Hibbity..." - Brian Williams
Grog6 is offline  
post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 04:52 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,407
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
The flaming river joint isn't cheap, but there are much more reasonable alternatives

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 05:17 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 54
Posts: 8,251
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
The flaming river joint isn't cheap, but there are much more reasonable alternatives
But it feels SO good.

If Jay isn't making them, I won't feel bad for posting pix and drawings, lol.

DLF was a good dude; not many peeps qualify for his 'farm'...

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

"Never said Hibbity..." - Brian Williams
Grog6 is offline  
post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 05:44 PM
Kind of slapped together
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bossier City, LA
Age: 61
Posts: 4,450
Jay's making them; but there are other ways, yes *grins*

RwP

Fuelly
RalphP is online now  
post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 05:54 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
Natesriv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kansas City
Age: 47
Posts: 315
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Again, it's not the rack, it's the inner or outer tie rods(or something else, or just alignment). You're throwing your money away and opening up the possibility of infinite frustration with crappy remans for no good reason.


It's the probably hardest single part to replace on this chassis.

Oh, I'm not going to change it.. I don't think it's outer tie rods as I just had an alignment and no mention of worn or out of spec. Inner ones... Not sure.

As I continue to learn about this amazing car I'll keep asking questions..

So here' another, inner tie rods easy DIY?
Woodman likes this.
Natesriv is offline  
post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 06:13 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
Natesriv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kansas City
Age: 47
Posts: 315
Garage
OH, and forgive me, I'm not trying to hijack this thread...just reading along to get more knowledge!
Natesriv is offline  
post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 06:33 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,407
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Yes, inners are easy, just turn the wheel to the side your working on, remove the bellows and unscrew. There are aluminum lock rivets to prevent them from backing out but they'll simply shear off after your first turn, new quality ones will have a new rivet and you pound that on once they're on and you're done.
Woodman likes this.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 06:35 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
Natesriv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kansas City
Age: 47
Posts: 315
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Yes, inners are easy, just turn the wheel to the side your working on, remove the bellows and unscrew. There are aluminum lock rivets to prevent them from backing out but they'll simply shear off after your first turn, new quality ones will have a new rivet and you pound that on once they're on and you're done.
Can be done after an alignment and won't affect it?
Natesriv is offline  
post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 07:46 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,407
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
You'll definitely need an alignment
Woodman likes this.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 09:11 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Kenz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: SYR, NY
Posts: 140
From my experience MN12s have a very "responsive" steering feel. You feel more through the steering wheel then you do with most cars. If everything isn't dialed in correctly, any kind of play is present, or anything is out of balance; you will know.
RalphP and Woodman like this.

96 Cougar Sport
96 Tbird LX
Kenz is offline  
post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 07:43 AM
4th Gear Poster
 
Natesriv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kansas City
Age: 47
Posts: 315
Garage
Yeah, I notice no play (where I turn the wheel, car does nothing)...it's just on some level undulations, it's a little like a jalopy feel..lots of minor corrections...
Now I'm running wider tires than what came with it... and the alignment may be needing adjustment (I'm not sure they did anything with the rear toe-in)... so the quest continues.
Natesriv is offline  
post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 05:53 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

Moderator
 
Grog6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Harriman, TN
Age: 54
Posts: 8,251
I can actually feel .1mm play in an inner ball joint; my alignment guy said I was nuts, I paid him to replace it, and it totally fixed a little wiggle I had that was driving me nuts.

Replacing both inners made a huge difference, but I'd already replaced everything else.

The Rack is a terrible job on this car, unless the engine is out; and then it's merely difficult, lol.

You have to have all 4 wheels adjusted at once; it's worth the cost.

Use the settings from the article:

alignment

My allignment guy said these were within the specs, but nothing he would ever set it to, normally.
He recommended it to his other customers, and it was well liked; but not for the 'Cruizer' crowd.

This makes my car handle like a dream; YMMV.
Woodman likes this.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.

I'm not Human enough to be human; but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it.

"Never said Hibbity..." - Brian Williams
Grog6 is offline  
post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 06:46 PM
4th Gear Poster
 
Natesriv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Kansas City
Age: 47
Posts: 315
Garage
Watched a couple of videos on how to change them. Simple enough... but measure the length or count the turns so you're close to before when you do it.
I'm going to pull the tire size tie rod out of it's slot and see if by moving the assembly I can feel if the inner tie rod is worn.. If so I'll replace them.. and if the tie rods themselves are sloppy, them too!

There was some online article on Jalopnik about cars from the 90's being the best to wrench on. That's true!

Here's the link

Cars From the 1990s Are The Best To Wrench On
Natesriv is offline  
post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-05-2017, 07:02 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,407
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Jalop has obviously never encountered an MN12
Woodman likes this.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 12:05 PM
PostWhore
 
Woodman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Duluth, MN
Age: 42
Posts: 1,583
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natesriv View Post
Oh, I'm not going to change it.. I don't think it's outer tie rods as I just had an alignment and no mention of worn or out of spec. Inner ones... Not sure.

As I continue to learn about this amazing car I'll keep asking questions..

So here' another, inner tie rods easy DIY?
Very. Motorcraft ones are $13 each on Rock Auto, all you need is a BIG crescent wrench, undo the outer tie rod end (count the revolutions), get the car up as high as you can on good, solid stands, and get both hands on that Crescent and break em loose. They will be TIGHT. The "hard" part is lining the new ones up because they'll be so stiff.

If it were my car, with outer tie rods being inexpensive for the good Motorcraft parts, I'd do them all at the same time and be done with it. Get your alignment done when you're done.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
2003 Explorer WAP block with Modular Head Shop "street ported" heads and Stage 2 PI NA cams, 75mm Accufab throttle body, C&L upper intake plenum, Kooks 1.75" primary/3" collector headers, 2.5" full exhaust with mid mount Magnaflow dual in/out muffler, 24lb/hr injectors, 80mm MAF, Tuning from Don @ www.lasotaracing.com, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels with 35mm offset, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
Woodman is online now  
post #21 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-06-2017, 12:39 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina
Posts: 199
Here's a really good write up on replacing inner tie rods; it's for an explorer, the process is very similar.
Inner Tie Rod Removal and Replacement (Pictures) | Ford Explorer and Ford Ranger Forums - Serious Explorations
Kidd-7 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome