You know you have a 5.0 Tbird/Cougar when (I couldn't find one for ours) - Page 2 - TCCoA Forums

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post #31 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-30-2005, 05:00 PM
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They go in the first time ok with some fuss. After they've been heated and cooled a few times they warp to no end. Busted knuckles, scratched paint and blown tempers is all you get after that besides the welds letting loose at the collectors and constant blown gaskets. Not worth the time or effort. In a 3 year time span I fought my headers 7 times for gasket leaks or blown out welds. Each time it took longer and longer to install them because the warping got so bad. I'm not the only one either. I've helped out 4 others in their same situations. Some claim that we just didn't do it right with tightening down the bolts, yeah right....what ever. I've seen dozens post the same problems on this site for years.

I've had the JBAs on the car for 4 years now and no leaks. You can hold them with one hand and every single bolt hole lines up and you can thread the bolts all the way in with your fingers. I've had them off once for a blown head gasket and they went back on just the same after uncountable heating and cooling cycles. You could never do that with a set of MACs even brand new.


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post #32 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-30-2005, 07:25 PM
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im putting a set on my xmas list

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post #33 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-30-2005, 07:31 PM
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... when you have to prove to the spareparts guy that there ARE an AOD in your -93 T-bird and not an AODE..

Perhaps not that common in the states but I've started to ask for parts
for -92's instead..

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post #34 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-30-2005, 08:08 PM
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.......when the guy at the muffler shop said he had to look twice when you drove by because he thought it was a Mustang.

Gosh, I need some turbo mufflers and tailpipes now. Everyone thinks it sounds great until they go for a ride.

After seeing how those mac shorties warp I'm glad mine are stainless frpp Mustang headers. I'm still running dumps and no support on the exhaust besides the four collecter bolts! That will be fixed shortly.
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post #35 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-30-2005, 08:44 PM
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I still get the "5.0s were not available in the Tbird" at the parts stores. Or "you or the previous owner must have swapped that in there, they didn't come like that".

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post #36 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-30-2005, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
I still get the "5.0s were not available in the Tbird" at the parts stores. Or "you or the previous owner must have swapped that in there, they didn't come like that".
i haven't gotten the `how hard was it to swap in the 5L' and this is just passerby's either walking or driving.. mostly happens when i was parking the car

Now-a-days it's `These things come with a 5spd?!?'


Driving around the '96 is nice, but even in the 120miles, 2 days i've been driving it, i shure miss the 5oh and 5spd of the '91 the 4.6 and 4R combo isn't as fun
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post #37 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 03:43 PM
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The 4R will be more fun after you do "the" tranny mod/

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post #38 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercoug302
The 4R will be more fun after you do "the" tranny mod/
`the' tranny mod comfuses the hell out of me.. Also most tranny engine swaps/modifcations are based on '94/5 cars..

Also i can not see how a Auto can be as fun as a Manual

Also MAN is the 4.6L gutless off the line.. SHEESH!!
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post #39 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 09:54 PM
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Did I say it was "as fun" as a manual? no, I said that it will be "more fun". The specifics on the site for 94/95 cars are for the sake of upgrading to the 96-97 tranny as part of the mod. Therefore it actually simpler to do on your car because it is a 96. It was easy for me, and I'm not a BMW tech either . . .

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post #40 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 10:51 PM
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I was going to do the manual trans swap but then after all the surgeries on my hands and since I can't autocross anymore I've had a change of mind. Sold my Tremec and all the parts with it for the swap. So now it's going to be a 4R70W swap. I've got everything for either doing the EEC V or a 95 Mustang EEC IV swap, just haven't made up my mind and or have the time to really do it. Still need to get a TC for it too. My garage gets above 110 during the day also so there's no work going on in there during the summer.

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post #41 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mercoug302
Did I say it was "as fun" as a manual? no, I said that it will be "more fun". It was easy for me, and I'm not a BMW tech either . . .
Well in that context it makes more sense
"The 4R will be more fun after you do "the" tranny mod" can be taken as it'll be more fun then a 5spd.. Specially when replying to the fact someone said that the 4R (or any Auto for that fact) isn't as fun as a 5spd...

Well hey i get confused about these things.. heck i'm not a BMW Tech either.. but with so much referring to the '94/5 cars with little info on the '96/7 cars
heh i'm still trying to get the Trans 101 thing to print out correctly either i get part of it, or the whole `page' is compressed into one sheet

Well the '96 will not become a 5spd.. it's too `soft' of a car to have anything liek that done to it..
So done up AOD with 4R internals Lonnie? Less hassles??
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post #42 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 11:46 PM
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The tech article isn't really that confusing if you take it in sections, valve body mods, Jmod and Bullet Proof. If you try and read it all at once then I can see where you can get confused.

No I won't do the wide ratio swap in the AOD. I'd rather have the ability to be able to change my shifts and lockups with a few key strokes rather then turn wrenchs and get covered in trans fluid.

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post #43 of 144 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 11:55 PM
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Heh I have read the whole thing a couple times (online) But wanted to print it up and read it that way and highlight what i find that was for me.. But the format it's in, i have issues printing it out.. Some `pages' work out great and break it up over X-number of sheets.. where as other `pages' either print little of it and no more, or i can get it to print what should be over 4-5 sheets onto ONE sheet of paper......

Well yah.. that way is nice too :p wish i could do that right now with the 4R in the '96.. Also the whole TC thing is freaky but i the best part of the car is.. it's getting twice the gas milage as the '91
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post #44 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-01-2005, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
I was going to do the manual trans swap but then after all the surgeries on my hands and since I can't autocross anymore I've had a change of mind. Sold my Tremec and all the parts with it for the swap. So now it's going to be a 4R70W swap. I've got everything for either doing the EEC V or a 95 Mustang EEC IV swap, just haven't made up my mind and or have the time to really do it. Still need to get a TC for it too. My garage gets above 110 during the day also so there's no work going on in there during the summer.
Hey Lonnie, you need any help in that garage?

paul

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Thank You to anybody with straight answers!
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post #45 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-03-2005, 09:28 PM
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I need to Find a garage to tear into my '91 for it's complete rebuild

My parents have a garage.. but it's a waste of space right now.. Full of CRAP!!! and also my Comet is in it.. (which i should buy a battery for and get it running and take it for a boot...
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post #46 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-04-2005, 04:42 PM
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--You can change the heads, headers, intake, water pump and timing chain, have it running in less than a day.
--Cops flag you down to tell you that you have a "Cool Car"
-- You buy tires every 6 months
-- You can run whatever grade of gas you want, cause it only takes 5 min. to change timing.

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post #47 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-06-2005, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodKnockin5.0
You know you have a 5.0 when you have a catback system and a U/D pulley kit and still run 16's.

Also when you stop at a stop light and your voltage meter drops and your temp goes up!!!

And your back wheels are extremely bald!

Last but not least when you buddy in a 4.6 is getting better gas mileage and smoking you!!!!!!!!LOL
BTW, I would be the one who smokes him yet gets way better gas milage! When we drove down to dragway42 and raced, we left my house both a having half a tank. Well he had to stop racing because he was almost out of gas ( he got about 8-10 runs before he stopped, I got 12-13 in before it closed). I managed to make it all the way home and did some running around the next day on the same half tank of gas...lol!

4.6 RUULLLEEEEEZZZZZZ!!! HAHA j/k with ya fellas!


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post #48 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-06-2005, 08:44 PM
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Since i own both, and only really had the '96 4.6L for like 10 days now (but nearly 400-500miles on it) I like my 5oh car better when it had the same milage on it..

the 4.6L is nice, don't get me wrong, but the 5.0L just has a `feel' to it that the 4.6L just doesn't have... the 4.6L feels `lazy' and justa good cruising engine

i should ask someone to drive my '96 to the track, and i'll take my '91.. and try to race them side by side... but would that be a fair race?? HMMM nah the '91 even with bad shycros would kick the '96's ***
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post #49 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-06-2005, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91 XR7
HMMM nah the '91 even with bad shycros would kick the '96's ***
Well, it's obviously not stock if you've got a 5-speed in it. But stock for stock, the even with the lazy bottom end, the '96 should still edge out a stock '91-'93.

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post #50 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-06-2005, 09:32 PM
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but the rest is uhh.. Stock Well mods i see that do not make it faster... Also the '91 has 326Km on it VS 122Km that the '96 has...

Well if the '96 can beat/be close to the 15.2 i got out of the '91 with a blown AOD i'll be DAMN happy mind you our race track is at sea-level next to a fair sized river.. so awesome conditions can be had
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post #51 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91 XR7
Since i own both, and only really had the '96 4.6L for like 10 days now (but nearly 400-500miles on it) I like my 5oh car better when it had the same milage on it..

the 4.6L is nice, don't get me wrong, but the 5.0L just has a `feel' to it that the 4.6L just doesn't have... the 4.6L feels `lazy' and justa good cruising engine

i should ask someone to drive my '96 to the track, and i'll take my '91.. and try to race them side by side... but would that be a fair race?? HMMM nah the '91 even with bad shycros would kick the '96's ***
Wow that's weird, cus when I drive my buddies 5.0, it feels sluggish campared to the 4.6! Seems as if the car just falls on its face after 3000 rpms. The 4.6's power just keeps going and loves to rev. The 5.0 screams for help past 3000. Even off the line it doesn't seem to take the edge over the 4.6...

When he first got his bird he had just the dynomax catback and I only had the PI intake on (do to the original carcking). I pulled on him from a dead stop all the way up to 70mph and got about 3-4 car lengths on him. Even got that on video...lol. Obviously your 5.0 is not stock so maybe thats why you feel it has the edge over the 4.6. But hey, happy motoring!


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post #52 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
When he first got his bird he had just the dynomax catback and I only had the PI intake on (do to the original carcking). I pulled on him from a dead stop all the way up to 70mph and got about 3-4 car lengths on him. Even got that on video...lol. Obviously your 5.0 is not stock so maybe thats why you feel it has the edge over the 4.6. But hey, happy motoring!

To be fair though, even though I do still feel as though the 4.6L would win, the PI intake on a NPI 4.6L Bird is worth in the range of 20-25fwhp. A catback exhaust on an already restrictive 5.0L Bird isn't worth more than 5-10fwhp. It makes the win that much easier.

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post #53 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 03:41 PM
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no stock exhaust on mine made a huge differance, now it hasnt been to the track , but thats ok,

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post #54 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
Wow that's weird, cus when I drive my buddies 5.0, it feels sluggish campared to the 4.6! Seems as if the car just falls on its face after 3000 rpms. The 4.6's power just keeps going and loves to rev. The 5.0 screams for help past 3000. Even off the line it doesn't seem to take the edge over the 4.6...
Obviously your 5.0 is not stock so maybe thats why you feel it has the edge over the 4.6. But hey, happy motoring!
Weird.. After i got rid of the Cats and had 2 chamber flows put on, my 5L LOVED it over 3,000rpms.. HECK it felt sluggish below it... Also the 5.0L car isn't stock yes.. but it's not like it has Heads, Intake, ect, ect...
Engine Mods : CAI (Mac), '94/5 70MM Maf, and Um the 50HP adder the MSD Ignition
Tranny: For the 15.2 i did it with a BLOWN AOD, yes it had the wide ratio gear set and stage 1 Transgo shift kit.. but did i mention IT WAS BLOWN!!
Never raced it with the 5spd
Gears: 3.27LS (Had them when i did the 15.2, But UM yah.. going from 3.08s to 3.27s makes a car SOOOOOOOOOOOO much faster )


So Basiclly complete stock other then some stupid `bolt ons' that really do not do anything for performance.. and like 130-140,000 miles on the clock..

Personally the 4.6L in my '96 LOVES the higher RPMS, it just too bad it shifts at a STUPID time.. still do not under stand the sluggishness off the line.. if you let it shift into 2nd at like 10-15MPH then FLOOR it to make it downshift into 1st again it moves pretty quickly. but off the line.. it doesn't move at all.. (Tranny problem??)
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post #55 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
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(Tranny problem??)
Nope, OHC problem. That's the nature of the beast. Small displacement, short stroke and no pushrods. Better for making power on the highway, not so good for making it in stop and go traffic. By letting it shift into second, you increase the vehicle speed slightly (otherwise it wouldn't shift) and then when you floor it and it drops back down into first, you're now at the top of first gear and right in the meat of your power band.

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post #56 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mod Motor Cat
To be fair though, even though I do still feel as though the 4.6L would win, the PI intake on a NPI 4.6L Bird is worth in the range of 20-25fwhp. A catback exhaust on an already restrictive 5.0L Bird isn't worth more than 5-10fwhp. It makes the win that much easier.
Where in the world did you here that a PI intake gives you 20-25 hp??? There is no way! Maybe with the PI intake AND cams. After having two birds, the first one getting the PI intake and cams and the second one just getting the intake for now (the cams will be in soon) I didn't really gain much from just the intake. I little more pull on the top end. The cams and intake make some what of a difference. You feel it more throughout the entire powerband.

And you would be surprised at what a difference the catback makes for the 5.0!

Edit: BTW, I just realized that I kinda of helped this thread go off topic. Sorry guys...


So... you know you a have 5.0 MN12 when you try to install U/D pullies from a 5.0 Mustang and find out the hard way that they are different! That sucked...lol

Sold - 1997 Ford Thunderbird 4.6 Sport - Full bolt on, PI stuff, gears, converter, exhaust, full suspension & many other things.

2007 MUSTANG GT (5M) - 504rwhp/449rwtq
- Paxton NOVI 2200 H.O. (10psi) - CMDP's - 127200 Comp Cams - BBK LT's - O/R X - FRPP GTA's - Mid Atlantic Tuned - FRPP 4.10's - Truetrac - Moser Axles - McLeod RST - Fidanza Steel FW - Eibach Pro Kit - J&M LCA's - UMI Relo. Brackets - Spohn Adj. PHB - Prothane Motor Mounts - Hawk HPS Pads - 19" Sport Edition KV5 Rims - Hankook Ventus V12 Evo Tires

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post #57 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 10:58 PM
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Where in the world did you here that a PI intake gives you 20-25 hp??? There is no way! Maybe with the PI intake AND cams.
You'd be surprised how much power the stock NPI intake holds back. I remember an old MM&FF article (or was it 5.0 Mustang, I can never remember) where they did the Livernois intake swap to a '96GT. It was good for the neighbourhood of 20-25hp at the flywheel. They then added the PI cams, to the NPI heads, along with the PI intake the car made something like 250fwhp. Up 35hp from stock. That's pretty impressive if you ask me?!? This is also right about the time that people realized that the Non PI heads weren't the junk that everyone thought they were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony
And you would be surprised at what a difference the catback makes for the 5.0!
A catback does make some difference, but not as much as you think. You've still got to contend with the still very restrictive tubular manifolds, 2-1-2, 2" exhaust, and factory resonator before it really starts to make a difference. Too many people tend to confuse sound with horsepower. Compare the two on the dyno with no other alterations and I guarantee you won't see anymore than 10hp.

And yeah.....I kind of contributed to this thread going off topic too......sorry.

That being said.....

You know you have a 5.0 Tbird/Cougar when.....

.....some clown from the 4.6L forum comes over and screws with your thread just so he can still stay in touch with his old 5.0L roots.

~Brian~


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post #58 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 11:21 PM
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Actually, the 4.6L has a larger stroke than the 5.0L. In fact, it even has a larger stroke than the 5.8L. It was designed to have a shorter block than the std sbf so it would fit in a FWD car (continental) which is why the bore is so small. So to make up for the small bore they gave it a huge stroke. Yeah, you modular guys may be longer, but diameter is where it really counts (at least that's what I keep getting told)

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2004 Pontiac GTO LS1 6 speed black/red RIP
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post #59 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-08-2005, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by mercoug302
Actually, the 4.6L has a larger stroke than the 5.0L. In fact, it even has a larger stroke than the 5.8L. It was designed to have a shorter block than the std sbf so it would fit in a FWD car (continental) which is why the bore is so small. So to make up for the small bore they gave it a huge stroke. Yeah, you modular guys may be longer, but diameter is where it really counts (at least that's what I keep getting told)
Yes, you are correct that fact did slip my mind. I'm still thinking in pushrod terms. Genearally, a longer rod engine is better for low end torque and a short rod engine is better for making power at higher RPM. In the case of the modular engine, a bigger bore would make a world of difference.

~Brian~


*1990 Mustang Coupe, 5.4L*
Black on Black & Stroked 'n' Polked!!!
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post #60 of 144 (permalink) Old 08-08-2005, 09:15 PM
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When you look at the weight of the car and know you need lots more horsepower.....
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