94-95 Mustang GT Manual ECM in 91-93 MN12 - Page 5 - TCCoA Forums

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #121 of 160 (permalink) Old 05-31-2009, 11:30 AM
Veteran Poster
 
EvilMooseofDoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: People's Republic of Oregon
Age: 44
Posts: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
OK, so you are not in this to just play around. That's a good thing. Ultimately I ended up going with the Mustang ECM because I wanted more tuning options than SCT and I had heard good things about the Tweecer RT. I ended up going that route but ultimately switched the AEM EMS. My setup was just too difficult to get everything working with the Tweecer RT and I'm not smart enough to make it work. I did have some success since I did get the car to run 13.1 in the 1/4 but I wanted more and I got a deal on the AEM.

I'm not really sure what advice to give. I think the Mustang ECM setup can work for you but if you want to get a bit more radical than a NA 302 I think something else might be easier.
Concerning the setup....I'm going to either re-use the stock roller cam, or get something in the TFS Stage I range, therefore keeping a decent vacuum signal.

I do, however, wish to retain the possibility of casually tossing a small nitrous shot at it, and if the Mustang ECM can be tuned for such an eventuality....

So yeah, I bought two Lincolns in a week.

My LarryLand Automotive Facebook Page:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Larry...61642343862942

My Scribd.com garbage: http://www.scribd.com/larry_vanzandt
EvilMooseofDoom is offline  
post #122 of 160 (permalink) Old 05-19-2013, 03:26 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
svtfiend@yahoo.com's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 170
I just recently got a t4mo for fifty bucks and a matching maf for thirty. Swapped em in and it started right up. Runs damn good. I'd be lying if I said i didn't gain some throttle response, a little power, and it idles much better now.

I get a check engine light now and again, but it goes away when the car is shut off and restarted, and if I scan it while its running and the light is on, all I get is 00 or 000. The koer test will make the light disappear.

Overall, very happy I did the swap. I am swapping in some 24 # injectors and the matching c&l tube. Interested in seeing how it runs then. Can always switch back.

1991 Super Coupe -
Performance=5.0 H.O. w/M5R2 5speed, 3.27 gears w/CF TracLoc,95 Cobra intake, 75mm Power throttle body, fenderwell CAI, C&L 73mm mass air w/24# injectors, FRPP E-Cam,Trickflow spring kit & Crane 1.7 roller rockers on stock E7s, MAC shorty headers, Flowmaster cat back w/hiflow cats, MSD plugs, coil, wires, electric cooling fan, 190lph Walbro fuel pump, BBK pulleys, and a B&M shifter. Drilled/slotted rotors, power brake conversion, Tokico Blues, Eibach springs, tons of poly, T4MO ecm
svtfiend@yahoo.com is offline  
post #123 of 160 (permalink) Old 05-19-2013, 03:28 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 49
Posts: 3,031
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by svtfiend@yahoo.com View Post
I just recently got a t4mo for fifty bucks and a matching maf for thirty. Swapped em in and it started right up. Runs damn good. I'd be lying if I said i didn't gain some throttle response, a little power, and it idles much better now.

I get a check engine light now and again, but it goes away when the car is shut off and restarted, and if I scan it while its running and the light is on, all I get is 00 or 000. The koer test will make the light disappear.

Overall, very happy I did the swap. I am swapping in some 24 # injectors and the matching c&l tube. Interested in seeing how it runs then. Can always switch back.
Don't forget to relocate the ACT sensor to the intake tube before the throttle body. For that era car it really belongs there and you won't get the best performance by having it in the lower intake. Obviously you will need to plug the hole in the lower.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #124 of 160 (permalink) Old 05-20-2013, 09:15 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
bad93bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Needville, Texas
Age: 48
Posts: 2,876
Send a message via MSN to bad93bird
I have one of these mustang ECM's left if anyone wants it.

QUADSQUAD MEMBER
bad93bird is offline  
post #125 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 07:03 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
Dreadful_Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Age: 32
Posts: 62
I'm interested! Two questions though:

My soon to be current setup is 5.0 HO stock cam, GT40 Heads intake and 65mm TB, 70mm MAF (using stock bird sensor along with 19# inj from explorer that donated the heads/intake)

1. Is it possible to use this setup with the stock bird ECM? or..

2. If I relocate ACT to right before TB will this setup work with the mustang ECM?
(this is more for future upgrades/tuning and when I swap the M5R2 trans)

Thanks!

'91 Sport 5.0 HO - AOD - JBL Premium Sound w/ Kenwood eXcelon deck - Black Leather LX interior w/ Lux Light
- 17" Sport Edition Wheels wrapped in Michelin 225/50's - Custom Flowmaster exhaust - GT40 heads - Electric Fan - '92 Sport Bumper

Planned Mod's
-Cobra intake (upper/lower) / SC MAF/30#inj / Dual Exhaust/headers
-'99 CV/PI 4" Aluminum DS / MK8 Disc Rear/HS/LCA/11.5" Front Disc
-M5R2 5-Speed / 3.27 LS Diff / SC F/R seats
Dreadful_Knight is offline  
post #126 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 08:06 PM
̇
 
Rayo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,630
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadful_Knight View Post
I'm interested! Two questions though:

My soon to be current setup is 5.0 HO stock cam, GT40 Heads intake and 65mm TB, 70mm MAF (using stock bird sensor along with 19# inj from explorer that donated the heads/intake)

1. Is it possible to use this setup with the stock bird ECM? or..

2. If I relocate ACT to right before TB will this setup work with the mustang ECM?
(this is more for future upgrades/tuning and when I swap the M5R2 trans)

Thanks!
You may have a problem using the 70mm MAF housing with your stock MAF Sensor..

Your stock MAF Sensor housing is 55mm..Unless you're putting your MAF Sensor into another housing of equal size that could pose a problem..

Where did the 65mm Throttle Body come from?..The stock size is 60mm..

If you mate your stock MAF Sensor, and housing back together..You shouldn't have a problem using that Intake/Heads set-up with the stock computer..


As far as the 94-95 Mustang ECM goes..

The stock MAF Sensor housing on the 94-95 Mustang is 70mm..You might be able to get away with using your MAF Sensor+the 70mm housing with this set-up..


The stock TB size for your Thunderbird is the same, as the 94-95 Mustang GT at 60mm..

Using the 70mm MAF Sensor housing, and your stock TB along with the Intake/Heads..Also relocating the ACT to the Air Box..

I can't think of any reason that set-up wouldn't work well with the 94-95 Mustang GT ECM..


Let's see if someone that has done the 94-95 Mustang GT Manual ECM in a 91-93 5.0 MN12 chimes in to confirm that..



Rayo..

.
.
1991 Ford Thunderbird Sport

"If you don't know where you're going..Any road will take you there."George Harrison
Rayo is offline  
post #127 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 08:35 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
Dreadful_Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Age: 32
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
You may have a problem using the 70mm MAF housing with your stock MAF Sensor..

Your stock MAF Sensor housing is 55mm..Unless you're putting your MAF Sensor into another housing of equal size that could pose a problem..
Why is that? Seriously..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
Where did the 65mm Throttle Body come from?..The stock size is 60mm..
The Explorer I got the heads/intake from.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
If you mate your stock MAF Sensor, and housing back together..You shouldn't have a problem using that Intake/Heads set-up with the stock computer..
That's what I wanted to hear!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
As far as the 94-95 Mustang ECM goes..

The stock MAF Sensor housing on the 94-95 Mustang is 70mm..You might be able to get away with using your MAF Sensor+the 70mm housing with this set-up..
What about a '93 cobra 70mm MAF (housing/sensor calib for 19# inj)? Also, I'm wanting to delete my egr and already bypassed my air pump via shorter belt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
I can't think of any reason that set-up wouldn't work well with the 94-95 Mustang GT ECM..


Let's see if someone that has done the 94-95 Mustang GT Manual ECM in a 91-93 5.0 MN12 chimes in to confirm that..



Rayo..
Thanks again Rayo!

'91 Sport 5.0 HO - AOD - JBL Premium Sound w/ Kenwood eXcelon deck - Black Leather LX interior w/ Lux Light
- 17" Sport Edition Wheels wrapped in Michelin 225/50's - Custom Flowmaster exhaust - GT40 heads - Electric Fan - '92 Sport Bumper

Planned Mod's
-Cobra intake (upper/lower) / SC MAF/30#inj / Dual Exhaust/headers
-'99 CV/PI 4" Aluminum DS / MK8 Disc Rear/HS/LCA/11.5" Front Disc
-M5R2 5-Speed / 3.27 LS Diff / SC F/R seats
Dreadful_Knight is offline  
post #128 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 08:59 PM
̇
 
Rayo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3,630
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadful_Knight View Post
Why is that? Seriously..
I know there's a Tech Article that says you can do it, but you shouldn't..It's hard to explain, but your stock MAF Sensor is not calibrated to your injectors..

The MAF Sensor, and housing size are calibrated to work together..You screw up things up when you try throwing your sensor in a housing of a different size..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadful_Knight View Post
What about a '93 cobra 70mm MAF (housing/sensor calib for 19# inj)?
The 93 Cobra used 24lb injectors, but aside from that...

I would just find a 94-95 Mustang GT 70mm MAF Sensor/Housing if you plan on using the 94-95 Mustang GT Manual ECM in your Sport..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadful_Knight View Post
Also, I'm wanting to delete my egr and already bypassed my air pump via shorter belt.
One of the advantages to using the 94-95 Mustang GT Manual ECM in a 91-93 5.0 MN12 is it's tuning capabilities..

By using the Mustang ECM you can adjust for the lack of EGR through a tune..
I'm not sure, but I don't think bypassing the air pump would necessitate any any changes in the tune..I could be wrong though..


Maybe someone who has actually swapped out their ECM for the Mustang piece will chime in with some useful information..I'm glad I could be of assistance..



Rayo..

.
.
1991 Ford Thunderbird Sport

"If you don't know where you're going..Any road will take you there."George Harrison
Rayo is offline  
post #129 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 09:20 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
Dreadful_Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Age: 32
Posts: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rayo View Post
I would just find a 94-95 Mustang GT 70mm MAF Sensor/Housing if you plan on using the 94-95 Mustang GT Manual ECM in your Sport..


One of the advantages to using the 94-95 Mustang GT Manual ECM in a 91-93 5.0 MN12 is it's tuning capabilities..

By using the Mustang ECM you can adjust for the lack of EGR through a tune..
I'm not sure, but I don't think bypassing the air pump would necessitate any any changes in the tune..I could be wrong though..


Maybe someone who has actually swapped out their ECM for the Mustang piece will chime in with some useful information..I'm glad I could be of assistance..



Rayo..
Welp, sounds like that is what I will be doing, until then I'll just run it with the stock MAF/TB even though it's sort of a bottleneck (from the FACTORY! )

I haven't had any issues with smog pump delete throwing any codes, this was a typical first mod on fox mustangs, most people purchased an idler pulley to go in place of it but I went the cheap route! Just saved the part # of the belt for future reference!

The only problem I will run into until I actually pick up a 94/5 cobra intake is clearance with the GT40 intake. I think I'll just dry fit it and see what happens!

'91 Sport 5.0 HO - AOD - JBL Premium Sound w/ Kenwood eXcelon deck - Black Leather LX interior w/ Lux Light
- 17" Sport Edition Wheels wrapped in Michelin 225/50's - Custom Flowmaster exhaust - GT40 heads - Electric Fan - '92 Sport Bumper

Planned Mod's
-Cobra intake (upper/lower) / SC MAF/30#inj / Dual Exhaust/headers
-'99 CV/PI 4" Aluminum DS / MK8 Disc Rear/HS/LCA/11.5" Front Disc
-M5R2 5-Speed / 3.27 LS Diff / SC F/R seats

Last edited by Dreadful_Knight; 08-31-2013 at 09:23 PM. Reason: mispelled dunno face
Dreadful_Knight is offline  
post #130 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-31-2013, 09:30 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 49
Posts: 3,031
Garage
So, you can do all of the things you want but you have to have some kind of tuning device added so that it will work.

The MAF is a tuned device from the factory. It is tested on a flow bench to know the amount of airflow that is possible through the body and across the sensor. That information is combined with information stored in the ECM about the target VE so that the MAF curve stored in the tables of the ECM is a proper starting point for the adaptive tune. This data is also combined with the injector size that is stored in the ECM. In the case of both the OBDC-I Thunderbird and the OBDC-II SN95 Mustang the standard injectors were 19lb./hr..

I could go on quite a bit about this but the bottom line is that if you deviate from the original configuration that the ECM you're using is expecting then you will need a way to tune the ECM to account for the changes.

When I started this thread it was specifically to allow for a ECM strategy that was supported by the popular tuning products at the time.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #131 of 160 (permalink) Old 09-01-2013, 07:35 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
Dreadful_Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Age: 32
Posts: 62
Now it all makes sense! So, in order to change anything regarding fuel management, you need to be able to "tune" the ECM to match the new components in order for it to work. If you don't then it is like having a carb that is not dialed in. Am I correct? I am new in the EFI game and have been learning a lot about how to manipulate this system. Thanks for all the info guys!

'91 Sport 5.0 HO - AOD - JBL Premium Sound w/ Kenwood eXcelon deck - Black Leather LX interior w/ Lux Light
- 17" Sport Edition Wheels wrapped in Michelin 225/50's - Custom Flowmaster exhaust - GT40 heads - Electric Fan - '92 Sport Bumper

Planned Mod's
-Cobra intake (upper/lower) / SC MAF/30#inj / Dual Exhaust/headers
-'99 CV/PI 4" Aluminum DS / MK8 Disc Rear/HS/LCA/11.5" Front Disc
-M5R2 5-Speed / 3.27 LS Diff / SC F/R seats
Dreadful_Knight is offline  
post #132 of 160 (permalink) Old 09-01-2013, 07:41 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 49
Posts: 3,031
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadful_Knight View Post
Now it all makes sense! So, in order to change anything regarding fuel management, you need to be able to "tune" the ECM to match the new components in order for it to work. If you don't then it is like having a carb that is not dialed in. Am I correct? I am new in the EFI game and have been learning a lot about how to manipulate this system. Thanks for all the info guys!
Correct. You could try and match the components that were originally paired with the ECM that you're using (i.e. factory configuration) but since we are mixing and matching parts just think of this as a starting point for being able to tune the system so that it will support the components that you want to add.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #133 of 160 (permalink) Old 09-02-2013, 10:28 PM
2nd Gear Poster
 
Dreadful_Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Age: 32
Posts: 62
So, technically I only need to match the MAF and inj since the TB is not controlled by the ECM? Would it be poss to use the bigger TB w/o tuning? I'm going to have to tune a mustang ECM when I do the M5R2 swap anyway because I really don't want to mess with trying to wire it into my stock ECM. But I just want to know what I can do as far as GT40 head/intake swap w/o any ECM changes.

Thanks!

'91 Sport 5.0 HO - AOD - JBL Premium Sound w/ Kenwood eXcelon deck - Black Leather LX interior w/ Lux Light
- 17" Sport Edition Wheels wrapped in Michelin 225/50's - Custom Flowmaster exhaust - GT40 heads - Electric Fan - '92 Sport Bumper

Planned Mod's
-Cobra intake (upper/lower) / SC MAF/30#inj / Dual Exhaust/headers
-'99 CV/PI 4" Aluminum DS / MK8 Disc Rear/HS/LCA/11.5" Front Disc
-M5R2 5-Speed / 3.27 LS Diff / SC F/R seats
Dreadful_Knight is offline  
post #134 of 160 (permalink) Old 09-03-2013, 05:03 AM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 49
Posts: 3,031
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadful_Knight View Post
So, technically I only need to match the MAF and inj since the TB is not controlled by the ECM? Would it be poss to use the bigger TB w/o tuning? I'm going to have to tune a mustang ECM when I do the M5R2 swap anyway because I really don't want to mess with trying to wire it into my stock ECM. But I just want to know what I can do as far as GT40 head/intake swap w/o any ECM changes.

Thanks!
In this case that's correct. If you match the MAF and injectors that came with that MAF the car will run. You will also need to relocate the ACT to the intake tube and plug the hole in the lower intake. Since it's a Mustang ECM from 94/95 you want to make sure you get the one that's for a stick shift car since your car originally came with an AOD which isn't ECM controlled. If you swap to a M5R2 then that same logic holds true.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #135 of 160 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 11:06 PM
Veteran Poster
 
EvilMooseofDoom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: People's Republic of Oregon
Age: 44
Posts: 722
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
In this case that's correct. If you match the MAF and injectors that came with that MAF the car will run. You will also need to relocate the ACT to the intake tube and plug the hole in the lower intake. Since it's a Mustang ECM from 94/95 you want to make sure you get the one that's for a stick shift car since your car originally came with an AOD which isn't ECM controlled. If you swap to a M5R2 then that same logic holds true.
My God....activity.

So yeah, I bought two Lincolns in a week.

My LarryLand Automotive Facebook Page:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Larry...61642343862942

My Scribd.com garbage: http://www.scribd.com/larry_vanzandt
EvilMooseofDoom is offline  
post #136 of 160 (permalink) Old 09-11-2013, 05:24 AM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 49
Posts: 3,031
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilMooseofDoom View Post
My God....activity.
Crazy, isn't it?

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #137 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 04:52 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: mishawaka Indiana
Age: 50
Posts: 175
Question pinout chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaddMartigan View Post
Just to let everyone know, I have managed to put a 94-95 Mustang GT manual tranny ECM (catch code T4M0) into my 93 T-Bird. The whole reason for doing this was so I would get better support for the Tweecer RT I just purchased. The P3M does have some base support but there just wasn't enough control based on that. Switching to the T4M0 allows a lot more changes. Since the two are almost identical there was a good chance it would work. I bought one and tried it and it does work.

There is a ton of various info on this swap so it would probably be easier for me to answer questions than to try and post every single thing I checked into.

Also, by no means am I saying that this is a better solution than what SCT offers. I just wanted the ability to data log as well as the ability to tune the car myself. I realize that there are some shortcomings with the Tweecer but I can accept that.

There are two things that are missing from the Mustang ECM. The ability to control the digital dash is gone and the ARC is gone.

If you are considering putting a 4R70W into your 91-93 MN12 then you would probably want to get the U4P0 ECM from the same model years Mustangs. It will control the 4R70W for you.

Here is the pinout chart:

just for my understanding do i have to change some pins around your post was not quite clear on that like the one you highlighted

thank you

hoschy
Bad-Hoschy is offline  
post #138 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-16-2014, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 49
Posts: 3,031
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Hoschy View Post
just for my understanding do i have to change some pins around your post was not quite clear on that like the one you highlighted

thank you

hoschy
No pin changes are required. I only highlighted the pins that are different between the two but unless you have a SC with ARC or a car with the digital dash you don't care about those differences. You'll just need to plug in the ECM and tune it with the chip on it. It won't work for you without the chip to tune it but it's easy to get it to work since those ECMs I listed are widely supported.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #139 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 03:53 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: mishawaka Indiana
Age: 50
Posts: 175
Thank you so much

since i don*t have ARC nor SC i m good to go

are you actually selling some chips or planing to do so??
Bad-Hoschy is offline  
post #140 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-17-2014, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
Moderator
Moderator
 
MaddMartigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Pickerington,OH
Age: 49
Posts: 3,031
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Hoschy View Post
Thank you so much

since i don*t have ARC nor SC i m good to go

are you actually selling some chips or planing to do so??
I'm actually not selling anything. I decided to use the Quarterhorse from Moates. You can get it here: http://www.moates.net/quarterhorse-f....html?cPath=63

decipha frequents these boards somewhat but also does tuning for our cars and can either offer some basic tuning advice or offering tuning services.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

MaddMartigan is offline  
post #141 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 04:10 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: mishawaka Indiana
Age: 50
Posts: 175
hi folks

to understand what exactly tuning in your terms means what are you doing to the engine

adjusting air/fuel ratio to let say better flowing heads /headers ??

or forced induction turbo, supercharger kinda like this???

better gas millage to??

thx

hoschy
Bad-Hoschy is offline  
post #142 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-18-2014, 04:39 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
S4gunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF, CA
Age: 38
Posts: 2,013
Garage
Tuning means modifying the stock tune that stored in your ECU to:
1) eliminate/modify features (ex: adjust temp fans come on/off, adjust/remove governor, adjust rev limited, eliminate emissions equipment, etc).

2) Account for changes you have made to your engine (displacement, intake manifold size, etc.) or the addition for forced induction.

You can also adjust an engine to be "leaner" under partial throttle conditions (use less fuel => better fuel economy) but when the engine is at WOT and under load, you will want a margin of safety provided by running the engine "rich".

This all presumes that your engine has already been "tuned up" (i.e. maintenance done). You can tweak things generally by doing things like rotating the distributor but that advances timing all the time (i.e.: setting the base timing to 13deg vs 10 and using premium gas, for example). Some folks might also call that "tuning" but the value of modifying the software in the ECU is that you can make things richer/leaner based on engine load, throttle position, and RPM -- all within bounds set by the temp sensors.

See what I learned in the process of adding QH to my 5.0 tbird setup:
S4Gunn's 93 Thunderbird 5.0 Tuning with Quarterhorse Basics...

This will explain the basics of what you can do. If you don't want to do these changes yourself, you can always pay someone like Don Lasota or Decipha for a canned tune.
-g

PS. The pinouts above apply to a 5.0 tbird compared to a 5.0 Mustang. Your sig says you have a 4.6L modular V8 so this data will NOT apply. You will need to do you own pinout to pinout comparison. The feedback on what you can do with SW tuning still applies though (those comments are engine independent). Also, I have very limited personal experience with 4.6L engines but I don't think they even have a distributor. Instead, I believe some of them at least use individual ignition coils. If so, there's nothing to rotate to manually advance timing globally.

My TCCOA iTrader Rating: (44 / 100% w/ 50+ transactions)

Last edited by S4gunn; 12-18-2014 at 04:51 PM.
S4gunn is offline  
post #143 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-19-2014, 02:00 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: mishawaka Indiana
Age: 50
Posts: 175
i got to change my signature the 4.6 is no longer in service i got an 93 T bird which i try as fast as possible to get on the road

so a lot of the tech stuff i new to me even it s a 5.0

wiring and fuel injection is not my best field of knowledge more the mechanical part

thx
Bad-Hoschy is offline  
post #144 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-19-2014, 04:04 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
S4gunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF, CA
Age: 38
Posts: 2,013
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Hoschy View Post
i got to change my signature the 4.6 is no longer in service i got an 93 T bird which i try as fast as possible to get on the road

so a lot of the tech stuff i new to me even it s a 5.0

wiring and fuel injection is not my best field of knowledge more the mechanical part

thx
No problem. Does this mean that you now consider anything I write in relation wiring and FI worthy of a reply to one of your posts?

If you are curious, just search for the various DIYs I've written thanks to the various inputs from other folks on here. Don't act butt hurt if people offer you constructive criticism to allow you to better state your questions (like showing a picture of your mystery connector). I've actually done the same and was amazed at how quickly people were able to identify such and such mystery box or connector.

-g

My TCCOA iTrader Rating: (44 / 100% w/ 50+ transactions)
S4gunn is offline  
post #145 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-19-2014, 04:38 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: mishawaka Indiana
Age: 50
Posts: 175
i always listen what anybody got to say i never know what i can learn

right now is just time against me
the EEC thing is just for info ,i have a m5r2 in the garage for future mods

to my shame wiring diagrams is just not really my thing i figured out a lot on my own i try not to bother anyone here just if i don*t know where to turn to

most likely if i can*t find the answer by reading the posts here or it does not answer my question how i think or i understand it right away

the car i got now i have just 4 days and i try to wrap ma head around it

it needs a tranny which i have to swap and winter is coming quick

i appreciate every bodies help no matter what

so got to run

solong hoschy
Bad-Hoschy is offline  
post #146 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-19-2014, 05:26 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
S4gunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF, CA
Age: 38
Posts: 2,013
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Hoschy View Post
i always listen what anybody got to say i never know what i can learn

right now is just time against me
the EEC thing is just for info ,i have a m5r2 in the garage for future mods

to my shame wiring diagrams is just not really my thing i figured out a lot on my own i try not to bother anyone here just if i don*t know where to turn to

most likely if i can*t find the answer by reading the posts here or it does not answer my question how i think or i understand it right away

the car i got now i have just 4 days and i try to wrap ma head around it

it needs a tranny which i have to swap and winter is coming quick

i appreciate every bodies help no matter what

so got to run

solong hoschy

If you are just doing an M5R2 swap, your only issue will be mechanical. The ECU does NOT control the transmission on 91-93 tbirds (AOD is mechanical/hydraulic. 4R70W has computer control).... so why post in two threads about it? Swapping ECUs only adds further complications.

For an M5R2, the only electrical thing you need to do is disable the clutch/neutral safety switch (see Pin 30). I believe you just tie that to the signal return switch (pin 41) but someone else can confirm (Dan?). On my car, this is done with a single jumper wire placed into the one electrical connector that normally reached down to the transmission.
Clutch Pedal Switch Wiring

As far as the M5R2 mechanical issues to expect, Do a search on the threads I've made starting with my 5.0 swap article. You will find a summary of your various starter/flywheel/clutch options to deal with the imbalance difference between a V6 SC engine and the 5.0.
-g

My TCCOA iTrader Rating: (44 / 100% w/ 50+ transactions)

Last edited by S4gunn; 12-19-2014 at 05:36 PM.
S4gunn is offline  
post #147 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-20-2014, 02:32 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: mishawaka Indiana
Age: 50
Posts: 175
that would be cool if it would be that easy like i said i*m not really good with wire

more fixing mechanical or modify it

as soon i can get to it i post some pictures with what i got on switches and sensors

got a question for you what is more trouble swapping to 5 speed or replace the aod

i have 2 in the garage to choose from

if workload would be the same i would think about it

solong

hoschy
Bad-Hoschy is offline  
post #148 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 01:41 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
S4gunn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: SF, CA
Age: 38
Posts: 2,013
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad-Hoschy View Post
that would be cool if it would be that easy like i said i*m not really good with wire

more fixing mechanical or modify it

as soon i can get to it i post some pictures with what i got on switches and sensors

got a question for you what is more trouble swapping to 5 speed or replace the aod

i have 2 in the garage to choose from

if workload would be the same i would think about it

solong

hoschy
IMO, the M5R2 makes the car much more fun than having an automatic.
Other people want automatics b/c it's easier to launch them in the 1/4 mi.

In your shoes, I believe the biggest concern would be
a) the condition of the "spare" transmissions and/or
b) the availability of the REST of the M5R2 swap parts.
I know lots of M5R2 have worn 2nd gear synchros (both of mine had this issue and they came from <100K mi cars).

Although you claim to be mechanically inclined, You also seem to be in a hurry to get this car moving again. Therefore, in your shoes, I'd probably swap in the AOD for now if you have a reasonable belief that it works and then start assembling all the parts you need for the M5R2 swap + confirming the condition of the synchros (plus rebuild the M5R2 if necessary) for later.

You will need:
M5R2, clutch pedal assembly, brake pedal assembly (or narrow the width of your auto brake pedal), clutch line (or make one), clutch master cyl, and compatible flywheel/starter/clutch [matched to your 5.0 engine's 50oz imbalance) combination, flywheel to crank bolts (will likely be different), and pressure plate to flywheel bolts (may also be different).

Things you can sell once you have the 5.0/M5R2 combo setup working:
SC Flywheel (if not reused), 5.0 TV cable (throttle kickdown cable from throttle body to transmission), SC flywheel to crank bolts (if not re-used), stock clutch line (if you decide to have a custom one made), AOD transmission (someone will want it if it works).

My TCCOA iTrader Rating: (44 / 100% w/ 50+ transactions)
S4gunn is offline  
post #149 of 160 (permalink) Old 12-21-2014, 12:59 PM
3rd Gear Poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: mishawaka Indiana
Age: 50
Posts: 175
i guess you are right this is the way to go

the m5r2 is a 149k tranny i don t know yet what condition, all i know when i open the case it was clean, very clean

how does a crap syncro look like

i have one aod unknown condition and one what was on my project 81 f100,

the truck drove in my driveway but had engine issues

switching an aod could be done on a Saturday ,switch to a m5r2 not so much


solong

hoschy
Bad-Hoschy is offline  
post #150 of 160 (permalink) Old 04-07-2016, 11:58 AM
Veteran Poster
 
ROLLINTHUNDER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: New Haven, KY
Age: 39
Posts: 813
I know there hasn't been a post on here in a while but I've got 2 questions. I just picked up my TM40 mainly for controlling an electric fan set up. I couldn't find a write up for that and was wondering if anyone knew exactly how to do that? Second is that I know the stock 92 maf wont work. I have from my other bird an 03 mustang gt maf. Will that be too big and if so is there any car I can get a maf from that will work? Already did the M5R2 swap. Thanks guys!
ROLLINTHUNDER is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome