94-95 Mustang GT Manual ECM in 91-93 MN12 - TCCoA Forums

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post #1 of 160 (permalink) Old 07-31-2005, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
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94-95 Mustang GT Manual ECM in 91-93 MN12

Just to let everyone know, I have managed to put a 94-95 Mustang GT manual tranny ECM (catch code T4M0) into my 93 T-Bird. The whole reason for doing this was so I would get better support for the Tweecer RT I just purchased. The P3M does have some base support but there just wasn't enough control based on that. Switching to the T4M0 allows a lot more changes. Since the two are almost identical there was a good chance it would work. I bought one and tried it and it does work.

There is a ton of various info on this swap so it would probably be easier for me to answer questions than to try and post every single thing I checked into.

Also, by no means am I saying that this is a better solution than what SCT offers. I just wanted the ability to data log as well as the ability to tune the car myself. I realize that there are some shortcomings with the Tweecer but I can accept that.

There are two things that are missing from the Mustang ECM. The ability to control the digital dash is gone and the ARC is gone.

If you are considering putting a 4R70W into your 91-93 MN12 then you would probably want to get the U4P0 ECM from the same model years Mustangs. It will control the 4R70W for you.

Here is the pinout chart:


Last edited by MaddMartigan; 12-31-2005 at 08:23 PM.
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post #2 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-03-2005, 12:12 AM
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i'm curious about this...no known probs so far??? would you recommend this for just 93s or do you think it will work on 91-92s too??? how bout the ones that have done the m5r2 swap???

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post #3 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-03-2005, 05:04 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mn12xr7
i'm curious about this...no known probs so far??? would you recommend this for just 93s or do you think it will work on 91-92s too??? how bout the ones that have done the m5r2 swap???
No problems so far. This should work for 91-93's since they are all the same ECM. The key here is that you use a ECM from a 94-95 Mustang GT with a manual tranny so that it doesn't have provisions for the electronic trans controls. With your five speed it should work almost exactly like the Mustang. Keep in mind that one of the biggest concerns with the Mustang ECM is that it pulls timing during shifts on a manual because it senses the throttle change when you let up to shift. For me this wasn't an issue since I have an AOD and I would never let up to do that.

What catch code is your current ECM?
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post #4 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-03-2005, 08:51 AM
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i'll check later today cause i actually dont know

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post #5 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-06-2005, 08:11 PM
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Keep in mind that one of the biggest concerns with the Mustang ECM is that it pulls timing during shifts on a manual because it senses the throttle change when you let up to shift. For me this wasn't an issue since I have an AOD and I would never let up to do that.
There is no shift retard, the 94/95 Mustangs do not pull timing during, before or after a shift. This is total BS that people with no clue have put out and convinced others. I get this same request about once ever few weeks for someone wanting a chip to stop the shift retard that is not there.

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post #6 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-06-2005, 08:57 PM
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heh i know my EEC (L1C) doesn't pull timing during a shift.. it ADDS timing like 10-15 degrees..

but then again, when i push down on the clutch pedal, and it thinks it's in Nuetral in turn adding timing for better fuel economy at idle/neutral?? (heh well the EEC does believe it's still an auto after all ) But i have no idea if it's that quick at adding it or not??
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post #7 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-06-2005, 09:40 PM
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heh i know my EEC (L1C) doesn't pull timing during a shift.. it ADDS timing like 10-15 degrees.. but then again, when i push down on the clutch pedal, and it thinks it's in Nuetral in turn adding timing for better fuel economy at idle/neutral?? (heh well the EEC does believe it's still an auto after all ) But i have no idea if it's that quick at adding it or not??
Drugs up in Canada must be really good this time of year. There is no way your EEC adds timing when you put in the clutch. There are no provisions at all for this in that processor. Timing is based on rpm in all the 5.0 processors from 93 on back. Only other things that affect it are ECT, ACT and BP. There are a couple of other things but there is NO magic switch in the transmission or on the clutch pedal that will add or retard the timing.

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post #8 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-06-2005, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Lonnie
Drugs up in Canada must be really good this time of year. There is no way your EEC adds timing when you put in the clutch. There are no provisions at all for this in that processor.
Well we are known for least some good drugs, namely the smoking kind but personally i do not touch that crap...

Ahh Sir Lonnie, Have we forgotten what a Auto EEC does being in `drive' or `park'??

Go to your '92 (?) start it up, hook up a timing lilght to it.. check the timing.. see where it's at... NOW Pull the Red/blue wire at the starter Silnoid on the fender.. check timing again (never mind watching the RPMS drop) and see that timing changed...

Well it did change with my L1C EEC.. RPMS dropped like 200 or so RPMs, and Timing dropped like 10-15 degrees..

I COULD retest this on my car.. but it's alot harder to do now it's a 5 spd
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post #9 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-06-2005, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91 XR7
Go to your '92 (?) start it up, hook up a timing lilght to it.. check the timing.. see where it's at... NOW Pull the Red/blue wire at the starter Solenoid on the fender..
Strange, that shouldn't happen. The R/LB wire is used for PNP (park/neutral position input) on the pcm module on pin # 30.

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post #10 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 12:40 AM
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You apparently are bored and want to try and prove some point, what you are talking about is the Neutral Drive Input Switch or as some call it the Park Neutral Switch. This has nothing what so ever to do with pulling out timing while the vehicle is operating. The input from this is for cranking and starting strategy where it fixes the timing, opens the IAC, shuts off emission and sets the air fuel. It has nothing what so ever to do with anything else once the vehicle is started so why do you even bring it up? Unless someone wants to drive down the road and then turn their key to start there is no way what so ever that feature will ever cause the timing to be backed off. This includes the clutch input.

Like I said there is no shift retard in any of the EEC IV 5.0 vehicles.

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post #11 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 06:01 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
There is no shift retard, the 94/95 Mustangs do not pull timing during, before or after a shift. This is total BS that people with no clue have put out and convinced others. I get this same request about once ever few weeks for someone wanting a chip to stop the shift retard that is not there.
Ok, well, if that's the case then it's even better. I had read that it was seen during dyno pulls and that the timing was being retarded about 2 degrees at 2500 rpm during a shift.

Thanks for the info.
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post #12 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 10:16 AM
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Ok, well, if that's the case then it's even better. I had read that it was seen during dyno pulls and that the timing was being retarded about 2 degrees at 2500 rpm during a shift.
That had to be with an automatic trans then. The 94/95 Mustangs with the electronically controlled automatic have what is called a Torque Reduction. Any of the electronically controlled automatics will have the Torque Reduction. The EEC reduces torque going into the trans dependent of TP by reducing spark or shutting off fuel injectors. This can be turned off or reduced.

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post #13 of 160 (permalink) Old 08-07-2005, 10:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
That had to be with an automatic trans then. The 94/95 Mustangs with the electronically controlled automatic have what is called a Torque Reduction. Any of the electronically controlled automatics will have the Torque Reduction. The EEC reduces torque going into the trans dependent of TP by reducing spark or shutting off fuel injectors. This can be turned off or reduced.
Excellent. That's good to know too. Thanks for the tips Lonnie.
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post #14 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 12:44 PM
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How's that EEC swap working out for you ? I'm thinking about installing an AEM intended for the 94/95 Mustang 5.0 (with 3 bar MAP sensor) to replace the 91 5.0 Tbird processer and SCT chip I'm using now. What I have now is working okay..but we are unable to get rid of the EGR codes.

I'm assuming it should require the same changes you made to get the stock 94/95 processer to work because the AEM unit just replaces the stock computer.

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post #15 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-28-2006, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Neibert
What I have now is working okay..but we are unable to get rid of the EGR codes.

I'm assuming it should require the same changes you made to get the stock 94/95 processer to work because the AEM unit just replaces the stock computer.

David
What..... what do you mean you can't get rid of the EGR codes. What's your processor code. With the L1C you shouldn't have any problems. Who did your program for you?

I've got someone that called me about 3 months ago that was able to use the AEM with his L1C after changes some of the pins around. I don't recall his name or number but he was running a twin turbo setup and the shop doing the build and tuning it needed some guidance. I haven't heard back from them since.

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post #16 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
What..... what do you mean you can't get rid of the EGR codes. What's your processor code. With the L1C you shouldn't have any problems. Who did your program for you?

I've got someone that called me about 3 months ago that was able to use the AEM with his L1C after changes some of the pins around. I don't recall his name or number but he was running a twin turbo setup and the shop doing the build and tuning it needed some guidance. I haven't heard back from them since.
Lonnie,

The processor is a E1X, the person tuning the car is Dave Dalke. He has tried doing all the usual things to delete the EGR but we are still getting codes and CELs. They don't seem to be affecting the way the car runs, but they are annoying.

The wiring harness and the processor came out of a 91 T-Bird LX w/5.0 AOD. Everything functioned fine while running the stock 5.0 motor, but after installing the new race motor, deleting the air pump, EGR and PVC systems to accomidate the turbo, we were unable to delete the EGR using the SCT chip.

He's going to be back in St. Louis in a few weeks to assist me with a supercharger upgrade on my 91 and to make a MAF location and size change on the turbo car and we will be re-tuning both cars at that time.

David

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post #17 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 11:15 AM
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I've, not had that problem with this very same processor. He may not have access to that particular parameter depending on what software he has.

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post #18 of 160 (permalink) Old 01-31-2006, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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David,

The 94/95 Mustang GT ECM is working great for me. I am using the Tweecer RT software to do my tune (primarily because I can do realtime datalogging) and everything has worked great so far. I am using the LC-1 wideband O2 to monitor my AFR and am actually logging through the Tweecer software by way of the EGR leads. The car has been running very stable and the AFR is right where it should be.

I think there is better software out there than Tweecer (SCT, AEM) but they are either more expensive than what I want to afford or they don't offer the datalogging functions that I want.

Bottom line is that the 91-93 MN12's just don't have a ton of support for their ECM's. That's the only reason I chose to go down a different path. I trust Lonnie but I wanted to learn this myself and the Tweecer offered me a more affordable route to doing that.

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post #19 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-01-2006, 08:15 AM
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What about an A9L computer from a fox body? Would that work, because I have one in stock...
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post #20 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-01-2006, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Cougar 25th
What about an A9L computer from a fox body? Would that work, because I have one in stock...
I looked into that one and decided against it because it would require considerable wiring changes.

In the end, if you are going to use a tuner to modify the stock program, it doesn't really matter if you use the SN95 ECM. Change it to meet your needs and you'll be fine.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
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post #21 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-01-2006, 12:47 PM
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Ok thanks for the tip!
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post #22 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-06-2006, 12:43 PM
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Are there any wiring changes? If so, what?
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post #23 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-06-2006, 01:12 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bad93bird
Are there any wiring changes? If so, what?
Nope, no wiring changes needed. If you have the digital dash then this won't work for you. If you compare the pinout spreadsheet at the top of this thread you can see the comparisons of the pins.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
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post #24 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-07-2006, 01:16 PM
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I have analog gauges. Is this PCM supposed to need a chip or a tuner?
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post #25 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-07-2006, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad93bird
I have analog gauges. Is this PCM supposed to need a chip or a tuner?
Well, you would need to tune it since the stock program isn't really designed for a 91-93 MN12.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #26 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-13-2006, 10:41 PM
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Martigan,

Where would I find one of those (T4MO) ECMs like you used ?

David

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2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ
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post #27 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-14-2006, 05:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Neibert
Martigan,

Where would I find one of those (T4MO) ECMs like you used ?

David
I got mine off of Ebay. If you do a search for "Mustang ECM" (or ECU, EEC, computer) you can usually find one.

Here's what I found when I looked this morning:



You can also check on Corral. It's worth keeping an eye out for it all.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #28 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-14-2006, 01:29 PM
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Randy went to the Mustang EEC only because he wanted to be able to use the same software he was tuning with to also data log. Most tuner software kits support the Mustang EECs but few support the 93 and older Tbirds. There is separate software out there just for data logging that covers the Tbirds though.

It isn't a question of the Mustang's EEC more tunable than the Tbird since if you have a one of the better codes like L1C or your S3S then you have just as much tunability as any EEC IV Mustang unless you are installing a electronically controlled transmission. So don't get hung up on what EEC is better.

www.blueovalchips.com
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1992 5.0 Thunderbird Sport, 328 rwhp 347 rwtq
1995 Mark VIII, 287 rwhp 305 rwtq

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post #29 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-14-2006, 01:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
Randy went to the Mustang EEC only because he wanted to be able to use the same software he was tuning with to also data log. Most tuner software kits support the Mustang EECs but few support the 93 and older Tbirds. There is separate software out there just for data logging that covers the Tbirds though.

It isn't a question of the Mustang's EEC more tunable than the Tbird since if you have a one of the better codes like L1C or your S3S then you have just as much tunability as any EEC IV Mustang unless you are installing a electronically controlled transmission. So don't get hung up on what EEC is better.
I couldn't have said it better. This particular solution was just the most easily available to me at the time.

This thread is mostly dedicated to the fact that this can be done.

"When the only tool you have is a hammer, suddenly everything looks like a nail."
"Nothing is foolproof because fools are so ingenious."
1993 Ford Thunderbird LX
Coast High Peformance 342 Stroker
-Low Tension Oil Rings, Zero Gap Seconds
-10.5:1 Compression Ratio
Trick Flow Twisted Wedge heads
Trick Flow Stage 1 cam
Trick Flow Street Heat Intake
Mac 1 5/8 long tube headers
FRPP 42# injectors
3.73 gears
Custom aluminum driveshaft
Built Darrin/dirtyd0g AOD with wide ratio gearset
dirtyd0g 9.5" Custom Torque Converter
Quarterhorse ECM from Moates
Zeitronix ZT-2 WB O2
No times under new system.......yet.
OMGHI2U

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post #30 of 160 (permalink) Old 02-14-2006, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonnie
It isn't a question of the Mustang's EEC more tunable than the Tbird since if you have a one of the better codes like L1C or your S3S then you have just as much tunability as any EEC IV Mustang unless you are installing a electronically controlled transmission. So don't get hung up on what EEC is better.

Lonnie,

Is the same thing true about the E1X that I have now, compared to the T4M0.

More to the point....is there any reason why the processor I'm currently using won't work as well as the 94/95 processor. BTW, I don't need the processor to control fans or the transmission.

David

1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat..................707HP/650TQ
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