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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 04:40 AM Thread Starter
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Another question about the shuddddder

I've had my car for 11yrs. I've experienced bad shudder, had it fixed a long time ago, then in latter years very light shudder at low throttle, which was fixed (for a few months) by a flush and refill with Mercon. The light shudder came back, but I've put up with it for years now.

The car is now only used in the summer and spends quite a while sat around. My question is, when you start driving a car again after its been sat for a few weeks/months, is that likely to make it shudder, or make any shudder that it used to be prone to, worse? I was visualising the friction surfaces in there getting dried out while its sat, and then taking a while to get back to "normal" when its driven again.

Any of you guys that only use their car now and again ever experienced that?

I'm currently getting the light shudder at light throttle/low speeds, but also a bit of shudder when it goes into overdrive, and some random occurrences when cruising at about 70. It could really do with a flush and refill, but Mercon is very expensive and difficult to get hold of over here.

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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 07:12 AM
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I guess when you say Mercon you mean Mercon V not III. I dont' think Mercon 3 has been made for years but just checking.

You may not be getting a full flush when it's changed a lot depends on how it's done. It may just be time to look at replacing the torque converter.

I don't think you should be getting the shudder after the car has sat for a while. Sitting should have no bearing on the shudder suddenly appearing. How long has it been since the last time the trans fluid was changed? A year or more? How many miles on the fluid?

I'm just throwing some thoughts out there. I'd be interested to hear what others have to say.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy625UK View Post
I've had my car for 11yrs. I've experienced bad shudder, had it fixed a long time ago, then in latter years very light shudder at low throttle, which was fixed (for a few months) by a flush and refill with Mercon. The light shudder came back, but I've put up with it for years now.
How was it "fixed" a long time ago?

I would do a full fluid replacement as defined in the tech articles. If you don't replace a full 12 qts, it's not a full flush.

That is not something you want to just "put up with for years." At that rate you will need to replace the converter.

Al

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94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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The initial shudder problem (in 2005 just after I bought the car) was fixed by the used car place I bought it from. He told me he'd taken if to a transmission specialist who'd changed a solenoid in the gearbox somewhere. Anyway, it fixed the problem.

Last time the fluid was changed was 2010 - about 20k miles ago (which I know is too long). I bought some Mercon V and insisted that that was used (they wanted for use Dextron with additive, "because that's what we always do"). I also made sure they knew about the nut on the TC, and drained that out too.

Mercon isn't used in any other European cars, so it's difficult to get hold of and very expensive, which is one of the reasons I haven't had it changed since. That, and the fact that the car is hardly used most of the time.

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 09:54 AM
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The flush and refill to fix a shudder problem is really just a Band-Aid. The problem is there isn't enough friction material on the older style torque converter clutches, and it wears out, causing the shudder. The permanent fix would be to replace the torque converter with a newer one, and while you are at it, might as well get a higher stall.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 12:47 PM
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The guy I bought my latest MN12 from said he had shudder at only 40k miles. Clutches wore that quick? It now has 65k, and it seems fine (knocks on wood).

Is a MKVIII converter immune from this issue? The reason I am asking is a lot of people seem to throw used ones in their MN12's.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 68k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 Crown Vic Police Interceptor - Brenda's car
Previous cars:
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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When I got mine, it was 11 yrs old, 46k miles, and was shuddering nicely. Now at 135k.

The transmission specialists over here were trying to get me to let them rebuild the whole transmission last time I had the fluid changed in 2010, as initally when they filled it back up with fluid, it shuddered even worse than when I dropped it off. Within about 50 miles though, it had completely stopped.

Rather than a complete rebuild, it sounds like all I need (in an ideal world) is a replacement TC.

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-20-2016, 04:13 PM
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Yes, replace the TC, fill with Mercon V and you could look at upgrading the valve body and doing the J-mod if that hasn't already been done. It will be better than new.
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Best 1/4: 1,320 nanoseconds @ 670,616,629.2 miles per hour

"There isn't that much difference anymore between spacecraft, aircraft and modern automobiles..." - Keith Henry, NASA's Langley Research Center
See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 04:53 PM
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I know that the Mercury Marauder TC was the one to swap, but it takes a dual pattern or Mark VIII flexplate.

I'm not sure, but we should be able to use the newer mustang converters; anyone know which years?

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-22-2016, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy625UK View Post
Rather than a complete rebuild, it sounds like all I need (in an ideal world) is a replacement TC.
I would start with a proper fluid change with the proper fluid. It does wonders.

My old 95 had 220k miles on the original converter. I only had shudder once, at around 200k, and a full fluid change fixed it.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 68k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 Crown Vic Police Interceptor - Brenda's car
Previous cars:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 12:27 AM
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I once had a shudder that was caused by an engine misfire. Tightening the loose spark plugs fixed it. I don't know if that's what's causing yours, but it might be worth checking...

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 07:06 AM Thread Starter
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I did think it was a misfire when it first happened (especially at the low engine speeds), but since then everything's been replaced at least once (plugs/leads/coil packs), so I know it's not that.

"...put me on a highway, show me a sign, and take it to the limit one more time"

The Eagles
1975

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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 07:25 AM
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They only "shudder" when the converter locks up. The converter only locks up in third and OD, though I personally have only noticed the shudder when it shifts into OD, around 40 MPH.

So if you're getting a shudder at low speeds, I doubt it is the converter.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 68k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 Crown Vic Police Interceptor - Brenda's car
Previous cars:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 07:35 AM Thread Starter
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By "low" speeds I mean about 30-35 in 3rd (on a very light throttle) when following a slow car, or in a queue, and then when it goes into lockup. If it accelerate a slightly harder, it immediately stops.

Last time I had the fluid changed and refilled with Mercon it all stopped, then after about 6mths the low speed shudder started again.

"...put me on a highway, show me a sign, and take it to the limit one more time"

The Eagles
1975

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
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RIP Dutch T-Bird (Robert Hendriks) 1970-2012 No doubt looking down on us from his low-riding T-Bird in the sky.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-25-2016, 07:42 AM
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It shouldn't come back in 6 months. They didn't do a full fluid change.

Al

97 T-Bird LX 4.6 - 68k miles
94 Supra TT Auto - street/strip car
04 Crown Vic Police Interceptor - Brenda's car
Previous cars:
95 T-Bird LX 4.6 - fully optioned, owned 15 years
96 Cougar XR-7 4.6- Brenda's car, owned 11 years
88 T-Bird 3.8 - first T-Bird, owned 5 years
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