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post #61 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 07:06 PM
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You guys have me thinking on this again. I looked and found some TR-3650's around $800 in my area, can get a rebuilt one for $1200. All are using 02-04 Mustang GT ratios, with a .62OD which appeals to me for my cruising gear.

I have the clutch and brake pedals, just need to source the transmission and pay for it. Going to get my motor running first though.

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PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #62 of 83 (permalink) Old 01-31-2017, 08:37 PM
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Honestly it's a better trans if you're staying NA, at least for the foreseeable future. The T56's most common ratios really are better suited for engines with ample low end torque.
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post #63 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-01-2017, 08:41 AM
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Honestly it's a better trans if you're staying NA, at least for the foreseeable future. The T56's most common ratios really are better suited for engines with ample low end torque.
I have no current plans for boost. In the future, after I do a manual swap, I'd like to go big bore/stroker with the FRPP boss forged shortblock with Trick flow heads and intake, bump up compression, and it should be a screamer.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #64 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
For the T-45, Absolutely. I tallied the cost for my swap once and it ended up just over half that figure.
You've got me thinking here. My transmission mechanic has quoted me $1200 for a complete rebuild including JMOD and 3200 stall, which is why I asked about the T45 swap cost. My thing is that I REALLY want to go 6spd MT, but those I know are far more expensive. So if I do go MT, I may just settle on a cheaper 5spd MT. Anyway, sre there any driveshafts that are plug and play with the T45, or will one have to be made custom? I've already got a '93 MK8 driveshaft ready to go with my AT rebuild, and if I could use that with a T45 or any other MT swap, great. If not, I'll have to get rid of it.

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Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
My first T45 swap was done for right around $1200, and at that time, T45s weren't as cheap as they are now. If you search around for parts, and do all the work yourself, yes, you can definitely do the complete swap for under $1200, especially if you already have some kind of tuner setup. If you have to get an xcal or pay for a tune, then it will likely be more.
So long as I don't have to do any sort of welding or fixing / replacing internal components, I should be able to do everything on my own. However, I don't have an xcal, so that will definitely be an added cost for me.

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post #65 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 06:13 PM
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The civilian Crown Victoria steel driveshaft is the exact length, and the P71 aluminum driveshaft fits but is about 1" shorter. The Mark driveshaft is too long.
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post #66 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 06:44 PM
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The only welding required would be to make the bracket for the clutch slave cylinder.

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post #67 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-02-2017, 08:31 PM
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I didn't weld anything on mine, I bolted the brace section on both ends.

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post #68 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 06:04 PM
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Under $1200?? Estimated Parts List and Cost Break Down

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMikeyL View Post
My first T45 swap was done for right around $1200, and at that time, T45s weren't as cheap as they are now. If you search around for parts, and do all the work yourself, yes, you can definitely do the complete swap for under $1200, especially if you already have some kind of tuner setup. If you have to get an xcal or pay for a tune, then it will likely be more.
I'm putting together a parts list for my swap and starting to buy parts when I find a good deal, but I don't see how I can possibly get them for under $1200, although its not that far off.

Where did you save money based on my estimated break down?

Did you buy new parts for clutch, pressure plate, throw-out/slave, clutch master?

My 4.6 DOHC is stock and the only upgrades I'm really considering are a Cobra Intake and Cobra Intake Cams (both already purchased). I like budget parts, but I also don't want to have to replace parts possibly after 10-20k miles. I also don't want to go too budget on a used trans that someone abused in their mustang.

Parts List
Clutch Pedal Assy - $200 (have - came with used master)
Hydraulic Line - $50
TR3650 05-10 Mustang - $550
Flywheel $100-$200
Clutch/Pressure Plate Set $200-$300
TO/Slave - $50-$100
Trans Mount - $50
Modify Trans Support - FREE
Shifter $50-$200 (from used stock to aftermarket)

Custom Tune - $100
(plan on buying an SCT X4 for $400 - not including this cost, but it does not have a pre-installed Mark VIII tune)

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post #69 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach1Motorsports View Post
I'm putting together a parts list for my swap and starting to buy parts when I find a good deal, but I don't see how I can possibly get them for under $1200, although its not that far off.

Where did you save money based on my estimated break down?

Did you buy new parts for clutch, pressure plate, throw-out/slave, clutch master?

My 4.6 DOHC is stock and the only upgrades I'm really considering are a Cobra Intake and Cobra Intake Cams (both already purchased). I like budget parts, but I also don't want to have to replace parts possibly after 10-20k miles. I also don't want to go too budget on a used trans that someone abused in their mustang.

Parts List
Clutch Pedal Assy - $200 (have - came with used master)
Hydraulic Line - $50
TR3650 05-10 Mustang - $550
Flywheel $100-$200
Clutch/Pressure Plate Set $200-$300
TO/Slave - $50-$100
Trans Mount - $50
Modify Trans Support - FREE
Shifter $50-$200 (from used stock to aftermarket)

Custom Tune - $100
(plan on buying an SCT X4 for $400 - not including this cost, but it does not have a pre-installed Mark VIII tune)
Going by the higher prices on this parts list, this puts the entire build at $1,750. Of course, that's not including the $400 SCT X4.

Also, this is the first time I see the cost of going to (any) MT and for the time being, it's out of my reach. I'm still saving money for my AT rebuild right now as I chip away with my suspension. As my suspension rebuild nears completion, I'll have a good idea of what my budget is for my transmission at that time. If I can swing the MT swap at that point, I'll do it. If not, I'm going to stay AT for the time being.

That said, you forgot the cost of a driveshaft
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post #70 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-03-2017, 07:49 PM
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I said a T45 swap could be done for under $1200, not a TR3650. T45s can be had for under $300 if you search around. Not included in your list is the custom driveshaft you will need for the TR3650 swap, so add in another $4-500 for that, as opposed to the $50 for a used crown vic driveshaft. Also it seems SC clutch pedals have gone up recently, as I never paid more than $125 shipped for one, and that included the master and reservoir. The flywheel can be had for about $100, or if you pull the trans out of a car, then just grab the flywheel out of that car and have it resurfaced for $50, and a generic aftermarket clutch kit can be had for $150, which will be fine for stock power levels. So now if we figure a clutch pedal at $200 with the master and reservoir, $50 for the line, another $50 for the slave, 300 for the T45 including the flywheel, engine plate, and driveshaft yoke, $50 to resurface the flywheel, $150 for a good aftermarket shifter, $50 for a crown vic driveshaft, $300 for a tune, and another $50 in misc hardware and fluids, that brings you right to $1200.

-91 Cougar LS, coming soon, complete overhaul with a 427" Windsor.
-90SC 5-speed, MP2, coated rotors, double intercooler, 15%OD, ported heads, comp stage 1 cam, 85mm TB, 90MM LMAF, 80# injectors, soon to be transplanted into...
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-98 Mark VIII LSC, Procharger P600b, TR3650 swap and 3.73s.
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post #71 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 12:52 PM
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I'm ok with it costing up to $2500 all told, and I'm doing it piecemeal as well. I have the clutch and brake pedals out of an SC. The pedal has an attached slave if I remember correctly, but I planned on getting new ones.
I've got a used SCT X2, and I'll have to pay for another tune, unless Don Lasota considers changing from auto to manual a year or so after the initial tune, which I kind of doubt.

I'm planning on a 02-04 3650, which even though it doesn't have the ideal length for the shifter, it has the ideal (for me) gear ratio for OD, so I'm good with that. I can get a rebuilt on for $1250, or a used one for 800. I'd rather get the rebuilt I think as it'll have the newer internals.

I'd also like to get a one piece aluminum drive shaft, vs using a CV unit.

The way I look at it, I have close to $3000 into my motor swap, what's another 2 to 3K for a transmission that gives me more ratios, and ultimately better MPG?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #72 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 01:19 PM
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The 01-04 TR3650 is exactly like the T-45 swap except for the need, without exceptions, for a speedcal. These use a conventional slip yoke driveshaft and clutch fork assembly so the Crown Vic shaft and S10 slave setups can be used and substantially cut costs in comparison to the 05-10 swap. Any 96-04 Clutch and flywheel setup will work with it as long as they're matched as well - T-45s used a 10.5", TR3650s are 11", but work with either transmission. For NA both are fine, so you don't need to be picky.

Keep an eye on eBay for some of this stuff, I got my Tri-Ax for an absurdly low price in an auction, ditto for the speedcal (just be sure it's extended range) and odds and ends like the block plate I got from one of the big mustang salvage sellers for only a few bucks as well. Also, I don't know if this is a national corporate price structure, but I found some Carquests have brake/flywheel resurfacing equipment, and it cost only $20 for them to do mine.
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post #73 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
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The 01-04 TR3650 is exactly like the T-45 swap except for the need, without exceptions, for a speedcal. These use a conventional slip yoke driveshaft and clutch fork assembly so the Crown Vic shaft and S10 slave setups can be used and substantially cut costs in comparison to the 05-10 swap. Any 96-04 Clutch and flywheel setup will work with it as long as they're matched as well - T-45s used a 10.5", TR3650s are 11", but work with either transmission. For NA both are fine, so you don't need to be picky.

Keep an eye on eBay for some of this stuff, I got my Tri-Ax for an absurdly low price in an auction, ditto for the speedcal (just be sure it's extended range) and odds and ends like the block plate I got from one of the big mustang salvage sellers for only a few bucks as well. Also, I don't know if this is a national corporate price structure, but I found some Carquests have brake/flywheel resurfacing equipment, and it cost only $20 for them to do mine.
Do you have a diagram for how you made that shift lever adapter, or is it just some good, thick bar stock cut down where needed and bolted up to the shifters?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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post #74 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 05:36 PM
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I cut it to length on the fly, it would be different length in your case with the auto console. It's .25" x 1" steel flat bar.
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post #75 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 05:52 PM
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I cut it to length on the fly, it would be different length in your case with the auto console. It's .25" x 1" steel flat bar.
Thanks!

What about the metal bars you used to tie the shifter bases together?

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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They're just plain angle iron, I cut them out of a bed frame my neighbor threw out lol
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post #77 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 09:32 PM
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If an earlier T45 is used, what years of Bird/Mark 8 require a speedcal, and what just plugs right in (concerning the speedo drive)?

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post #78 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-04-2017, 09:37 PM
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96-98.

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post #79 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 04:50 PM
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What clutch should I go with?? I've got a Ford Performance Parts Flywheel M-6375-G46A billet steel thing.

And my t45 cost me $50 for the trans and like $600 for a complete bulletproof rebuild.

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post #80 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 06:24 PM Thread Starter
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so the moral of that story is find blown up ones. I have had a few knuckleheads try and sell t45s for like 800$. What is the world coming to.

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post #81 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 06:44 PM
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That's an insane amount for that trans. FWIW, I bought both a T45 and a TR3650 with problems, very cheap, $50 and $100 respectively. The good part is that they really aren't prone to "blowing up", most swap transmissions when the fork breaks, or even when the fork pads wear off, and you can get a screaming bargain for those after fixing that stuff and nothing else.

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post #82 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 07:54 PM
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Is there any kind of aftermarket shifter relocation kit for a T45 / early 3650 anymore? Or are you stuck doing custom work to get the shifter in the correct location.

I have been leaning towards the newer 3650 because of the correct shifter location, but the older 3650 and T45 have the much easier driveshaft option.... It seems like it would be easier to get a custom driveshaft made IMO.
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post #83 of 83 (permalink) Old 02-05-2017, 08:16 PM
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Is there any kind of aftermarket shifter relocation kit for a T45 / early 3650 anymore? Or are you stuck doing custom work to get the shifter in the correct location.

I have been leaning towards the newer 3650 because of the correct shifter location, but the older 3650 and T45 have the much easier driveshaft option.... It seems like it would be easier to get a custom driveshaft made IMO.
If you look at the pictures that XR7-4.6 posted here what will i need you'll see that it's a fairly simple construction of angle iron/bar stock and an aftermarket shifter paired with the stock one.

There are pros and cons to both versions of the 3650. The early ones have better (in my opinion) OD gear ratio, and are easier to source a driveshaft for. The later ones have the remote shifter, but in my opinion the very weak shifter assembly (look at it, it's VERY prone to flex under load since the shifter isn't directly bolted to the transmission (like it is on the TR-6060/T-56Magnum, etc) but connected via levers. XR7-4.6's solution and others that were similar before his give you that "remote" shifter that is still directly attached to the transmission itself. Eliminating the missed shift due to flex that was common on 05-10 Mustangs.

97 Thunderbird LX (The GT Bird)
PI Swapped NPI motor with some port work on the heads, PI cams, 80mm MAF, CAI that feeds from fenderwell. Jmod, 3.73:1 TL in Mark VIII carrier, Mark VIII aluminum LCAs, 93 Mark VIII driveshaft, PBR brakes (soon to be Cobras), 18x9 wheels, 255/40/ZR18 Tires, Front and Rear strut/shock bracing, GR-2 shocks, Eibach 1.5" springs, 1989 SC front and rear sway bars.
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