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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Ford Teaming with Toyota

Personally I don't want an F150 with a Tundra drivetrain and I hope it's just on the hybrid vehicals. Mom has 2009 Sequoia it's fast but problems are already starting to pop up at 40k miles.. (sticking gas pedal anyone?)


"The companies signed the agreement Monday to share development costs, saying they want to make the technology more affordable for customers and bring it to market faster. Many details have yet to be worked out, but both said their vehicles would remain unique even if they share the same drive systems."

"What makes them uniquely a Ford truck will continue to be there with a hybrid powertrain that we co-develop with Toyota,"


http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2011/...ucks-and-suvs/

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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 10:10 AM
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I see this as a good thing

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 10:26 AM
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This doesn't mean Fords will have Toyota drivetrains or vice versa. Ford and Toyota are both developing the same technology together rather than separately. This means (like it said in the article) both faster and lower cost R&D.

What they come up with will be unique from anything currently on market, and both Ford and Toyota will implement it differently in their own vehicles.

To me, this is excellent news. As much as I hate to say it, Toyota does have excellent engineers, as does Ford. Having both manufacturers work together on this tells me it will be that much better than what either could have developed independently.

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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 10:33 AM
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Teamwork! This is definitely good. I see a practical electric car on the horizon, not that I want one, but I want people to stop using my gas.

I love my V8, but I'd love it more if all 8 cylinders worked. (they do now)

My T-bird is like George Jetson's wife, you try to give her a little money, she takes the whole wallet.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 10:52 AM
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I want people to stop using my gas.
Right on!

Let the people who can afford to save money on gas do so. Let us poor people continue to get ripped off by the gas companies.

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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 01:25 PM
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Teamwork! This is definitely good. I see a practical electric car on the horizon, not that I want one, but I want people to stop using my gas.
Then they'll just be stealing your coal, uranium, or whatever source you get your electricity from

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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Then they'll just be stealing your coal, uranium, or whatever source you get your electricity from
x2 There are much less rare metals like uranium on earth than oil.

Also China is the worlds main producer of lithium so instead of being dependent on the middle east for oil we will be more dependent on china for lithium ion batteries in these hybrids. (I believe Chile is a big one too)

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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-24-2011, 04:28 PM
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Then they'll just be stealing your coal, uranium, or whatever source you get your electricity from
They can't take my hamsters!

I love my V8, but I'd love it more if all 8 cylinders worked. (they do now)

My T-bird is like George Jetson's wife, you try to give her a little money, she takes the whole wallet.
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-25-2011, 05:39 PM
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Sounds great to me too, the indirect continued homogenization of NASCAR not withstanding.

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-25-2011, 08:08 PM
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Sounds great to me too, the indirect continued homogenization of NASCAR not withstanding.
Crap.. that was over before Toyota even got in....what was the last exciting development done for NASCAR?!!!
Yates v Roush head wars.... right?

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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 01:33 AM
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Teamwork! This is definitely good. I see a practical electric car on the horizon, not that I want one, but I want people to stop using my gas.
www.teslamotors.com

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 01:37 AM
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Hope those Tesla fans like hours of downtime to charge the $8000 battery that will inevitably stop holding charge in 4-8 years.

-Matt
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 01:42 PM
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Hope those Tesla fans like hours of downtime to charge the $8000 battery that will inevitably stop holding charge in 4-8 years.
Oh SNAP! And by practical, I mean you can drive 300 miles (like the tesla), but not have to stop for a few hours to recharge. They should make it like propane, drop your empty one, pay to put a charged one in. Then, and only then would the electric car be as good as a gasoline/ diesel car.

I love my V8, but I'd love it more if all 8 cylinders worked. (they do now)

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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 02:01 PM
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Yes they still aren't all that practical but I think it's awesome that someone actually made a fast electric car. I think that in the future it they will make it better. I don't know why they can't use a dual battery system where one charges from a generator while the other is being used.

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-26-2011, 03:20 PM
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My biggest hatred for them is the reliance on a battery and worse of all "the grid". Not so much the propulsion itself. Gasoline cars are their own powerplant, they use the raw fuel you put in to generate the power to move itself and power the other systems. Even the wasted heat energy can be utilized to warm you up in the cold. Rather than take in(slowly) power from one giant powerplant attached to a grid that constantly has surges/outages and go for a downward spiral of driving while depleting the range with every other electronic device used (stereo, heater, lights, ect.) until you end up having to inevitably wait for the next recharge. Talk about depressing!

I really can't imagine a greater personal hell than having a giant cell phone for a car.

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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-28-2011, 09:12 PM
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How is it that they have not figured out or implemented a way to charge the battery while driving on electric power like a frigging alternator and drive it off the a separate output somehow.

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My biggest hatred for them is the reliance on a battery and worse of all "the grid". Not so much the propulsion itself. Gasoline cars are their own power plant, they use the raw fuel you put in to generate the power to move itself and power the other systems. Even the wasted heat energy can be utilized to warm you up in the cold. Rather than take in(slowly) power from one giant power plant attached to a grid that constantly has surges/outages and go for a downward spiral of driving while depleting the range with every other electronic device used (stereo, heater, lights, etc.) until you end up having to inevitably wait for the next recharge. Talk about depressing!

I really can't imagine a greater personal hell than having a giant cell phone for a car.
Well put Matt

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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 08:24 AM
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They just need to make a universal battery. pull up to a station, an attendant swaps it out, you're on your way. Maybe not make that the only way, but certainly make it an option.

I love my V8, but I'd love it more if all 8 cylinders worked. (they do now)

My T-bird is like George Jetson's wife, you try to give her a little money, she takes the whole wallet.
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 01:02 PM
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How is it that they have not figured out or implemented a way to charge the battery while driving on electric power like a frigging alternator and drive it off the a separate output somehow
Because that would be a perpetual motion machine, and would violate the laws of physics. Anything that would generate electricity would need to have some power source, which would put a load on the battery in the car, depleting it faster, and now in addition to draining the battery moving the car, you have parasitic losses from inefficiency in the entire recharging system, which will always recharge at a lower rate than it uses electricity to run.

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-29-2011, 02:36 PM
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-01-2011, 03:58 AM
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That's some good Kool-aid !

Don't tell me none of you would love to drive for a day , stomp on the gas and leave most cars at the light . And still get every thing you need done . And all you need to do is plug it in at night . And your only reason for not liking the electric car is you surport oil companys that don't just want to make a "big" profit , but want to rape us ? People who have electric cars , say and show they don't pay alot for electricity . So why do people just make up reasons out of the clear blue sky about electric cars and say it's bad ? On secound thought , it's easier to stand at the bank ATM , stand in line at the gas station , pump the gas that they make run slower now (if it does'nt take a while to get to a pump if there's a line ) . Yea , I guess plugging in a cord for 20 seconds would be worse then that , my bad .
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-01-2011, 07:07 AM
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On the other hand, I wonder why there are no cars available with a diiesel-electric powertrain - not unlike those found in locomotives. I'd imagine that would be the most efficient way of using fuel.

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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-01-2011, 02:26 PM
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Don't tell me none of you would love to drive for a day , stomp on the gas and leave most cars at the light . And still get every thing you need done . And all you need to do is plug it in at night . And your only reason for not liking the electric car is you surport oil companys that don't just want to make a "big" profit , but want to rape us ? People who have electric cars , say and show they don't pay alot for electricity . So why do people just make up reasons out of the clear blue sky about electric cars and say it's bad ? On secound thought , it's easier to stand at the bank ATM , stand in line at the gas station , pump the gas that they make run slower now (if it does'nt take a while to get to a pump if there's a line ) . Yea , I guess plugging in a cord for 20 seconds would be worse then that , my bad .

You must be withholding secrets with that kind of range and that quick of a recharge time!

And it's not like the power companies won't rape us, especially once the already **** grid starts getting further taxed by hundreds of thousands of electric cars every night. No way they'll raise the rates to meet the demand!

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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-01-2011, 03:18 PM
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You must be withholding secrets with that kind of range and that quick of a recharge time!

And it's not like the power companies won't rape us, especially once the already **** grid starts getting further taxed by hundreds of thousands of electric cars every night. No way they'll raise the rates to meet the demand!
There's already a lot of work underway to improve the power grid / supply. Last year I had the great opportunity to work on a piece of Nuclear history. In January I went to Three Mile Island (TMI) ... anyone remember late March - early April 1979? Anyway, we took the generator off of unit 2 and it was shipped to Raleigh, NC where it was rebuilt over the summer and then installed at Shearon Harris Nuclear Station in October of last year. The improved performance of the rebuilt and larger (than previously installed) generator added several megawatts production capacity to the unit. Upgrades like this one and other upgrades are an ongoing process in the power utility sector.

As far as how this will affect utility prices, I don't know. I will say that I think it will be many years before there are enough electric cars on the roads to tax the power grid.


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How is it that they have not figured out or implemented a way to charge the battery while driving on electric power like a frigging alternator and drive it off the a separate output somehow.
Because that would be a perpetual motion machine, and would violate the laws of physics. Anything that would generate electricity would need to have some power source, which would put a load on the battery in the car, depleting it faster, and now in addition to draining the battery moving the car, you have parasitic losses from inefficiency in the entire recharging system, which will always recharge at a lower rate than it uses electricity to run.
Don't be so fast to shoot that idea down.

As far as perpetual motion goes ... Hybrid and electric cars have regenerative braking systems that do recharge the batteries. As you pointed out perpetual motion is against the laws of physics however, there it no law that says that a high degree of regenerative efficiency can't be obtained.

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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-02-2011, 06:48 PM
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Yesturday I went to see my girlfreinds from my house . Then we went to two stores and I went home after I dropped here off. My job is close , but a car is still ok to use . The whole day I did 48 miles total on my trip meter . Every one who has a electric car gets 50 to 120 miles per charge . I sleep for 7 hours and even the lead-acid batteries only take 5 to 6 hours if the batteries dead . Most people do not travel that much on averege when it's not for work , even in a gas car . Li-ion only take 2 to 4 hours to charge . Granted , they do cost alot (price of a Tork Tech blower ), but most of them do lighten the car and make it faster . Besides , didn''t Henry Ford build a electric car for his wife , that she loved , and still runs even now ? Toyota just set a record of 7and a half minutes around the Nurungburg Ring in an electric car . And as long as people are still saying the the things that you do out of just dout , the electric compony's will blow them off too . But cable companys bend us over to so... oh well .
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-02-2011, 08:56 PM
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I think the technology will be there someday, maybe not in our lifetime but soon. Think of how far things have progressed in the last 30 years. If you told people 30 years ago that everyone would have personal cell phones, laptops, PDA's, Ipads, and do everything on computers from banking to shopping they would have thought you were nutty.

it's just the concept of cars has always been centered around gas engines, why change something that works. Most people are reluctant to change and when you try to change something of that magnitude it's going to take awhile.

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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 08:10 PM
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 09:11 PM
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no electric car will ever have the exhaust note of my bird, therefore they are all bad.
I would not be too sure about that.

There's a sci-fi short story I remember where it turns out the "villian" (who's just basically a donkey-hole) has an old 1959 Caddy, that he takes around the block, drives to a store, picks up the newspaper, and drives back home ... all spring-wound, with the rest of the space given to batteries and the synthesizer that makes it sound like a rodded out 1959 Caddy.

Besides, there's always something like this: http://www.gizmag.com/soundracer-v8-video-review/14019/

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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 09:16 PM
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I think the technology will be there someday, maybe not in our lifetime but soon. Think of how far things have progressed in the last 30 years. If you told people 30 years ago that everyone would have personal cell phones, laptops, PDA's, Ipads, and do everything on computers from banking to shopping they would have thought you were nutty.

it's just the concept of cars has always been centered around gas engines, why change something that works. Most people are reluctant to change and when you try to change something of that magnitude it's going to take awhile.
That's not exactly true, either. When the first internal combustion engine was being used to move something with 4 wheels, there was also electricity & steam. So they weren't always centered around gas engines. Ask Jay Leno, he has a few non-gas early automobiles.

Back on topic, Ford & Yota? Eh, why not! They both make some great vehicles, so why not! They've also both got good business sense and models, so again, why not?

Not like it's a new concept, been going on for years with ALL the vehicle manufacturers!

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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 09:17 PM
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x2 There are much less rare metals like uranium on earth than oil.

Also China is the worlds main producer of lithium so instead of being dependent on the middle east for oil we will be more dependent on china for lithium ion batteries in these hybrids. (I believe Chile is a big one too)
lets not forget about the three trillion USD worth of precious metals and rare earth elements that have been found in northern afghanistan. the karzai "aministration" has allowed the Chi-Coms to do a diggin'!

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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 09:27 PM
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Why not beta test electric cars in china? See how well they work. Might reduce the "global demand" for petroleum that is causing these ludicrous gas prices right?

-Matt
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