Lincoln Motor Company - TCCoA Forums

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
Seasoned Geek
 
Boston-Bull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Hickory NC
Posts: 7,669
Lincoln Motor Company

"Lincoln Motor Company" I kind of like the sound of that

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/...ntcmp=features

2017 Mustang GT Base/ Making my own premium
Boston-Bull is offline  
post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 03:09 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
The name isn't the damn problem. It's that the upcoming 45mpg MKZ hybrid is the exact same ****ing car as the upcoming 45mpg Fusion hybrid

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 05:48 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
NetKeym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,862
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
The name isn't the damn problem. It's that the upcoming 45mpg MKZ hybrid is the exact same ****ing car as the upcoming 45mpg Fusion hybrid
Not exactly the same! This one will have a higher price tag because it says Lincoln!

~Rick
TCCoA Sig
NetKeym is offline  
post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 06:03 PM
Kind of slapped together
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bossier City, LA
Age: 61
Posts: 4,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetKeym View Post
Not exactly the same! This one will have a higher price tag because it says Lincoln!
And, if recent Lincolns are any judge, a more hideous grill.

IMO, anyway.

RwP
RalphP is offline  
post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 07:29 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Earl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Katy TX
Age: 34
Posts: 6,102
Here's what ford should have done....you see all those new Jaguar vehicles running around? From what I have heard, all of those where Ford designs that where being worked up while ford still owned Jag....they should have taken all of THOSE vehicles, and made them the new Lincoln line-up, instead of their current offerings...seriously, none of them are exciting, at all, in any way. They are nice, sure, but so is a top-end Ford, and no Lincoln has anything to offer that isn't available in it's fully optioned Ford counterpart. But what do I know, after all, this isn't your father's Oldsmobile

2015 Mustang GT Premium / Manual / 3.55 / Recaro
Earl is offline  
post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 09:57 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
The current XJ and XK are Jag designs through and through. No doubt their development took place under Ford's ownership but they were designed from the start to be Jags, replacing their predecessors. The XF on the other hand is based on the LS/Retrobird/S-type DEW98 platform, and yes that was squandered potential for a new Lincoln.

Lincoln potentially being christened "the Lincoln Motor Company" is the most daft incipid idea Ford has floated around since creating the Versailles, the badge engineered lump that essentially became the archetype for Lincoln's current Fordtastic model lineup. If someone in the company actually thinks the the divisions name is the problem, their head is buried in the sand.

The only hope for turning around Lincoln is a scorched earth sweep of the entire division. Ditch the walrus styling, stop basing the entire range directly on Ford's full model lineup, in fact stop with the notion that having a "full model lineup" is a necessity(I question that with all automakers as well). Get rid of the stupid, confusing, failure that is the MK_ naming system. You're not a German or Japanese automaker and Cadillac's success dabbling with alphanumerics at least stands for something they had before adopting it (Seville/Catara/Deville Touring Sedan), what does MKZ stand for? "Mark Zephyr"?

And targeting the middle-luxury segments is such a low aim it's pathetic. Lincoln once was briefly on par with world class marques, hell, at worst on par with Cadillac. Trying to position a formerly loss-leader exclusivity division into a volume mover absolutely kills brand equity, Cadillac learned that in the 80s and Lincoln should have been more observant of it.

They'd be better off at this point axing the entire division for a few years, turning all their dealer networks into Ford stores and releasing 1-2 truly exclusive luxury models down the road with the Lincoln or Continental badge. That, and only that would shake the stink that is on that division today..

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 10:21 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
NetKeym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,862
To all you guys who think "Lincoln Motor Company" is a new term, here is a share of stock for Lincoln that was sold in 1919:


~Rick
TCCoA Sig
NetKeym is offline  
post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 10:28 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Yeah and no one who is currently alive and foreseeably living remembers when it was.

And again, this is way too shallow to do anything good for the brand. And it's a freaking lie since Lincoln doesn't build motors.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 10:41 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Earl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Katy TX
Age: 34
Posts: 6,102
I agree the MK thing is horrible...especially when trying to look up parts, you have to think on it for a minute...is it a car? Is it a truck? Is it a "crossover"? The only one that you definately know what is is, and don't have to think on it, is the Navigator, but that's old sheetmetal, then there wast he Mark LT, but that's just an F150 with way too much chrome.

I think it goes like this though...

MKS = Mark Sedan

MKT = Mark Truck

MKX = Mark Crossover

MKZ = It used to be the Zepher, but it now has to have a matching name...

Mark LT

and they have now killed the magic of the word Mark and the memories of all eight of them...and lets not forget the MK9 concept.

I don't even know what to think of all of it...try to compete with BMW, but then again the Lincoln LS didn't do so well, so that's out.

Emulate what Caddy has become? That'd be fantastic, but would that just be too late behind the curve?

2015 Mustang GT Premium / Manual / 3.55 / Recaro
Earl is offline  
post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 10:51 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
That's what I'd fear, any route they take is going to have to be taken in steps and those steps are built on weak foundations as is. Part of the reason I think putting Lincoln on a hiatus wouldn't be a bad idea is that the brand can reemerge with something totally new that's totally a departure without drowning in its current lineup. They can position it high up the latter and have it bought through the regular Ford dealer network as an exclusive model. Not too different than the pre-war Lincolns actually.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 11:08 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Earl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Katy TX
Age: 34
Posts: 6,102
Yeah, but it seems like Ford would be hesitant to try it, given their previous luck with Edsel, and the separate division known as "Continental" which really built a spectacular vehicle, and wasn't really a failure, just failed to stand on it's own as a separate brand...then again Dodge has seemingly turned their RAM pick'em-up truck into a separate division all together lately, nobody seemed to notice...then again, irrelevant to this discussion.

2015 Mustang GT Premium / Manual / 3.55 / Recaro
Earl is offline  
post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-23-2012, 11:15 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Edsel's failure was essentially that it was another also-ran midpriced car with ungainly styling introduced in a recession.

Oh wait, I just paralleled the current state of Lincoln

You can also argue that Lincoln was under Ford's umbrella as a SUPER expensive SUPER exclusive loss leader high end luxury car during the Great Depression. My idea isn't totally unprecedented.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-25-2012, 07:49 AM
PostWhore
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: LA aka NW FL
Posts: 1,544
The Lincoln that sells automobiles will eventually end up like your father's Oldsmobile. Shut down. It's been on that heading since ceasing production of the Mark VIII. Someone said that the Mark LT was an F150 with too much chrome, well I'd argue that what little that passes for Lincoln success since then is the Navigator, which was an Expedition with too much chrome. No new ideas have come with a Lincoln badge in a very long time and without the Town Car ro keep cash flowing it's merely a matter of time before Ford closes the doors imo.

This http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Pages/default.aspx is the Lincoln that builds motors. Or used to....

Sometimes, we just need to remember what the rules of life really are:
You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape. If it doesn't move and should, use the WD-40. If it shouldn't move and does, use the duct tape.
doodaa is offline  
post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 07:16 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Morton IL
Posts: 11
Read last week that the 2015 Mustang platform may have 1-2 Lincolns built on it. Possibly a small 4 door LSC, and maybe a 2 door version. That would stir some excitement!

Currently I dont think they play up what they have well. The MKZ comes with an optional SHO motor and is more loaded if that is possible and quieter. Read/heard they learned more about sound proofing from Jaguar and put that tech in the MKZ, and others. Also I dont see much on the Navigator anymore which is the ultimate land yacht.

We will see what happens. Regardless I could only afford used no matter what is in their line-up.

1995 XR7 Cougar 4.6
2010 SHO methanol injection, exhaust, Livernois tune. Best of 12.44 at 112
paulford8 is offline  
post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 07:37 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Raptor22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chico, California
Age: 23
Posts: 2,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulford8 View Post
Read last week that the 2015 Mustang platform may have 1-2 Lincolns built on it. Possibly a small 4 door LSC, and maybe a 2 door version. That would stir some excitement!

Currently I dont think they play up what they have well. The MKZ comes with an optional SHO motor and is more loaded if that is possible and quieter. Read/heard they learned more about sound proofing from Jaguar and put that tech in the MKZ, and others. Also I dont see much on the Navigator anymore which is the ultimate land yacht.

We will see what happens. Regardless I could only afford used no matter what is in their line-up.
Too bad they screwed up every opportunity to do that in the past. The people on the MN12 team believed they were designing a platform that would be used on more than just the 'bird/Cougar and Mark, a platform that would be used for sedans as well, but that never happened. The DEW98 platform was supposed to be more for Ford than just the Lincoln LS and Thunderbird, yet they decided to kill that too. They had a head start 25 years ago and then squandered everything they have done since then. The Mustang could have had an IRS 20 years ago, Ford and Lincoln/Mercury could have been the standard of the world, but they squandered it to build Explorers. Ford is only just now climbing itself out of the hole its been digging for the last two decades. The rest of the world is so far ahead when it comes to chassis tech is ridiculous. Its why every car chassis they are using right now was aped from Volvo (Focus/Taurus/MKS/Explorer) or Mazda (Fiesta/Fusion/MKZ), because they sold their only modern platform (DEW98) with Jaguar who still uses it. At least Ford was lucky to have access to those brands and their designs or else we still would probably be using the original Taurus and Escort platforms from the 80s, alongside more Fox and Panther cars.

Ford was in a bad spot, at least they've tried to recover. I'd like to see what happens in the next five years.

[-----[ Conner ]-----] ASE P2 Automobile Parts Specialist - P4 General Motors Parts Consultant
The Blunderbird - 1989 Ford Thunderbird Photobucket
3.8L V6 / M5R2 / 141,754 miles
Thunderbird SC Suspension Swap - Eibach Pro-Kit
JBL Premium Audio Swap - JL CP108 Subwoofer
Resonator Delete - Magnaflow DI/SO Muffler - Custom 2.5in Exhaust
Raptor22 is offline  
post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 08:07 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
The Focus and Fiesta are Ford Europe designs, Not Volvo or mazda designs. In those two cars cases it's a good thing since, until the Focus, Ford North America consistantly failed at producing subcompacts that weren't penalty boxes. Europe in contrast were very well versed in the segment since big cars aren't popular there.

The upcoming Fusion is also a Ford design, replacing the Euro Mondeo.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 09:32 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Raptor22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chico, California
Age: 23
Posts: 2,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
The Focus and Fiesta are Ford Europe designs, Not Volvo or mazda designs. In those two cars cases it's a good thing since, until the Focus, Ford North America consistantly failed at producing subcompacts that weren't penalty boxes. Europe in contrast were very well versed in the segment since big cars aren't popular there.

The upcoming Fusion is also a Ford design, replacing the Euro Mondeo.
Much of the tech that Europe packed into small cars during the 2000s came from Volvo and Mazda however. Its the same tech packed into the Volvo C30 and Mazda 2. The 4cyl engines are straight Mazda designs and the 5cyls are straight Volvo. The current Fusion/MKZ is straight Mazda 6 and the I have a feeling that the new one shares a lot in common with that architecture. The Mondeo has had a ton of Volvo under it for years...

[-----[ Conner ]-----] ASE P2 Automobile Parts Specialist - P4 General Motors Parts Consultant
The Blunderbird - 1989 Ford Thunderbird Photobucket
3.8L V6 / M5R2 / 141,754 miles
Thunderbird SC Suspension Swap - Eibach Pro-Kit
JBL Premium Audio Swap - JL CP108 Subwoofer
Resonator Delete - Magnaflow DI/SO Muffler - Custom 2.5in Exhaust
Raptor22 is offline  
post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 09:54 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
The relations between Mazda and in particular Volvo have been declining for quite a while, especially now that the latter is no longer under Ford's umbrella. The new platforms, with the exception of the Volvo based D3(and variants) for the foreseeable moment, are based Ford's new global platforms rather than Mazda derivatives. The 2013 Fusion platform is all new, it's even got MacStruts up front in place of the 6's SLAs.

As for the Engines/drivelines, if they are good, they're good. No reason to adopt driveline patriotism after some of the 4cyl lumps Ford designed in the 80s/90s. Plus, as we know, the SCs M5R2 was Mazda derived and I don't hear many people clamoring for it being a T5.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 11:08 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Raptor22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chico, California
Age: 23
Posts: 2,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
The relations between Mazda and in particular Volvo have been declining for quite a while, especially now that the latter is no longer under Ford's umbrella. The new platforms, with the exception of the Volvo based D3(and variants) for the foreseeable moment, are based Ford's new global platforms rather than Mazda derivatives. The 2013 Fusion platform is all new, it's even got MacStruts up front in place of the 6's SLAs.

As for the Engines/drivelines, if they are good, they're good. No reason to adopt driveline patriotism after some of the 4cyl lumps Ford designed in the 80s/90s. Plus, as we know, the SCs M5R2 was Mazda derived and I don't hear many people clamoring for it being a T5.
So Ford going back to MacStruts in the Fusion is actually a step backwards, nice. As far as standard transmissions go, Ford hasnt made their own since the 70s. I have an M5R2 in my F-150 and its a great transmission, though I'd rather have a ZF5. My point is the R&D at Ford isnt that great and they've got a bit of catching up to do...

[-----[ Conner ]-----] ASE P2 Automobile Parts Specialist - P4 General Motors Parts Consultant
The Blunderbird - 1989 Ford Thunderbird Photobucket
3.8L V6 / M5R2 / 141,754 miles
Thunderbird SC Suspension Swap - Eibach Pro-Kit
JBL Premium Audio Swap - JL CP108 Subwoofer
Resonator Delete - Magnaflow DI/SO Muffler - Custom 2.5in Exhaust
Raptor22 is offline  
post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 11:52 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
You'll get no argument from me about that. But I think the problem today is the recent past "home grown" R&D had been riddled with problems and the growing trend of pseudo globalism is creating models and platforms that are trying to satisfy both super sprawled and super dense countries. GM has been on a similar path with their reliance Opel. The thing is though, they are all new cars, unlike much of the competition, developed by legitimate Ford subsidies. It's very rare for a volume automaker to do a clean sweep platform AND engine/drivetrain lineup for a new model. The current engine lineups, weather Ford or Mazda derived, seem to be perfectly capable-excellent in today's market so why spend big bucks redeveloping them?

With the New Fusion, most people don't know what the differences are between SLAs and struts and don't have the ambitions to find the limitations, if there are any for that matter. Ford hasn't done a half bad job with struts in the likes of S197s(which can readily out-handle an older SLA car, even with the SRA out back) and if they're simpler to manufacturer/service with better handling than their predecessor, who's going to complain? Especially if the fit/finish, interior, styling, power and economy are good?


The sad fact of the matter, as it appears anyway, is that Ford is going all in on building quality, reliable, appliances in the likes of Toyota and distancing themselves from enthusiast cars. The dissolving of SVT, the rapidly growing exclusivity of Mustang and the severely eroded offerings in the Ford Racing catalog speak volumes to that.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 12:19 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Raptor22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chico, California
Age: 23
Posts: 2,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
You'll get no argument from me about that. But I think the problem today is the recent past "home grown" R&D had been riddled with problems and the growing trend of pseudo globalism is creating models and platforms that are trying to satisfy both super sprawled and super dense countries. GM has been on a similar path with their reliance Opel. The thing is though, they are all new cars, unlike much of the competition, developed by legitimate Ford subsidies. It's very rare for a volume automaker to do a clean sweep platform AND engine/drivetrain lineup for a new model. The current engine lineups, weather Ford or Mazda derived, seem to be perfectly capable-excellent in today's market so why spend big bucks redeveloping them?

With the New Fusion, most people don't know what the differences are between SLAs and struts and don't have the ambitions to find the limitations, if there are any for that matter. Ford hasn't done a half bad job with struts in the likes of S197s(which can readily out-handle an older SLA car, even with the SRA out back) and if they're simpler to manufacturer/service with better handling than their predecessor, who's going to complain? Especially if the fit/finish, interior, styling, power and economy are good?


The sad fact of the matter, as it appears anyway, is that Ford is going all in on building quality, reliable, appliances in the likes of Toyota and distancing themselves from enthusiast cars. The dissolving of SVT, the rapidly growing exclusivity of Mustang and the severely eroded offerings in the Ford Racing catalog speak volumes to that.
Thats what I've been saying for a while now, Ford has gotten exceptionally good at making Toyotas, nothing more and nothing less.

Ford R&D was great until the 90s, they really were ahead of damn near everyone before Red Poling did cost cutting and the "four-door Bronco II" project took off. By the end of the 90s and into the mid 2000s everything in their line up was so long in the tooth it was ridiculous. Personally I'm a big fan of well engineered automobiles, and its why I don't like to see automakers take the easy way out engineering wise, it always hurts the consumer whether they know it or not. Its like Volkswagen going back to an SRA in the Jetta, or GM putting a backwards Chevette subframe in the Fiero rather than a real suspension. It will end up biting Ford in the ass.

Engine wise I think Ford as well as most automakers are really getting their crap together as far as building quality stuff.

Everybody with the exception of GM that is, where burning a quart of oil every 2000 miles is within specifications on a new engine. This is in new vehicles with 7500 mile oil change intervals and a four or five quart of oil capacity. So every soccer mom that buys a Traverse and is too stupid to check her oil ends up 3.5 quarts of oil low before every oil change. Yet she's surprised when her engine needs rebuilding under warranty at 50,000 miles...

(I work at a Chevrolet dealership, I see this on an almost daily basis. Should she check her oil? Definitely. But should she HAVE to? No. A modern engine should not burn that much oil, I'm sorry. Also why I'm a believer in 3000 mile oil change intervals...)

[-----[ Conner ]-----] ASE P2 Automobile Parts Specialist - P4 General Motors Parts Consultant
The Blunderbird - 1989 Ford Thunderbird Photobucket
3.8L V6 / M5R2 / 141,754 miles
Thunderbird SC Suspension Swap - Eibach Pro-Kit
JBL Premium Audio Swap - JL CP108 Subwoofer
Resonator Delete - Magnaflow DI/SO Muffler - Custom 2.5in Exhaust
Raptor22 is offline  
post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 12:45 AM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Yeah I'm not a believer in the "new GM", not in this hemisphere anyway lol

Not all things were rosy in the Don Peterson years, there was the Escort and Tempo afterall. As well as the Mazda engineered/underpinned Probe being the intended replacement for the Mustang, and of course, the actual Bronco II in it's original stubby, tall, death trap, 2 door form. Luckly the Tbird/Cougar and Taurus Sable were MAJOR hits with above average fit/finish by the standards of their day, so history has been kind to them. In the classes the other cars were in though, Ford has drastically improved on today compared to the 80s.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 10:17 AM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Raptor22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chico, California
Age: 23
Posts: 2,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by XR7-4.6 View Post
Yeah I'm not a believer in the "new GM", not in this hemisphere anyway lol

Not all things were rosy in the Don Peterson years, there was the Escort and Tempo afterall. As well as the Mazda engineered/underpinned Probe being the intended replacement for the Mustang, and of course, the actual Bronco II in it's original stubby, tall, death trap, 2 door form. Luckly the Tbird/Cougar and Taurus Sable were MAJOR hits with above average fit/finish by the standards of their day, so history has been kind to them. In the classes the other cars were in though, Ford has drastically improved on today compared to the 80s.
The Escort was top three best selling car in America during its entire lifespan, they served their purpose well and if it wasn't for the valve eating 1.9 their reputation would be better. The Tempo was way ahead of its time in 1984, but like everything Ford had in the 80s, it was long in the tooth by 1994 when they got rid of it. The AWD Tempos were really pretty technologically advanced. The Taurus and Sable looked like nothing else on the road. The Probe handled better than damn near any other front wheel drive car short of the 4WS Prelude, it just wasn't a Mustang. Ford had the opportunity to take these decent platforms and make them really great but they just let them languish and all of the 80s R&D was for nothing.

The Bronco II was a great truck, my dad put 110,000 trouble free miles on one before trading it in on my F-150. The only reason they were tipsy was because they put P215 tires on the damn thing. After my dad pulled those off and put on 31"s it widened the footprint and was WAY more stable. The tiny tires were a Ford screw up, should have had LT235 tires at least. It would have saved lives.

[-----[ Conner ]-----] ASE P2 Automobile Parts Specialist - P4 General Motors Parts Consultant
The Blunderbird - 1989 Ford Thunderbird Photobucket
3.8L V6 / M5R2 / 141,754 miles
Thunderbird SC Suspension Swap - Eibach Pro-Kit
JBL Premium Audio Swap - JL CP108 Subwoofer
Resonator Delete - Magnaflow DI/SO Muffler - Custom 2.5in Exhaust
Raptor22 is offline  
post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 11:38 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 11
Now that all the Towncar buyers are dying off Lincoln can't complete with upscale competition by adding more bling to a Ford. They really blew an opportunity to make Lincoln special. I agree they should let it die. Too bad.
blue cat is offline  
post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 04:01 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor22 View Post
The Escort was top three best selling car in America during its entire lifespan, they served their purpose well and if it wasn't for the valve eating 1.9 their reputation would be better. The Tempo was way ahead of its time in 1984, but like everything Ford had in the 80s, it was long in the tooth by 1994 when they got rid of it. The AWD Tempos were really pretty technologically advanced. The Taurus and Sable looked like nothing else on the road. The Probe handled better than damn near any other front wheel drive car short of the 4WS Prelude, it just wasn't a Mustang. Ford had the opportunity to take these decent platforms and make them really great but they just let them languish and all of the 80s R&D was for nothing.

The Bronco II was a great truck, my dad put 110,000 trouble free miles on one before trading it in on my F-150. The only reason they were tipsy was because they put P215 tires on the damn thing. After my dad pulled those off and put on 31"s it widened the footprint and was WAY more stable. The tiny tires were a Ford screw up, should have had LT235 tires at least. It would have saved lives.
You're making excuses for them. The problem was the bronco II didn't have proper tires speced for them. should have had proper tires, would have saved lives is meaningless after the fact. Same goes for the Explorer/Firestone debacle. It was a bad design, period.

If you appreciate well engineered cars, you really shouldn't be defending the Escort and Tempo. I grew up with them, hell my dad even had a first gen Escort as a company car for a few years, supplementing his (well engineered)Jetta GLI. The interior quality and materials of the 'scort sucked, everything could easily be pulled clean off by a very young me, had a dreadful power/per (awful)noise ratio coming from the agricultural 1.9 under the hood, and had awful handling and ride quality. Ford even abandoned the "world car" notion by the gen II and based it atop a Mazda platform it seemed so hopeless. Ford Europe meanwhile actually made it into something respectable, if not downright legendary through its lifespan. Ford America gave us the frog eye EXP....yeah....

Compared to a 80s VW or Honda, the Escort's shortcomings are just amplified. The Tempo experience wasn't much better, they at least (comparably)had some guts in the HSC, even though it was just a 30 year old Falcon 6 with 2 cylinders lopped off(great engineering!). But as you said, it languished too long on that awful stretched Gen I Escort platform and had equally bad quality(yes, personal experience) AWD can't save that fact, especially since nobody wanted it or needed it. I'm not going to look at those piles through bright colored glasses with the memories I and plenty of others have had with them. I remember thinking my Mom's 85 Jetta seemed like a Mercedes Benz compared to the morning carpools to school in the 92ish tempo I rode in every day.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Don Peterson era for Ford. That was a time where many people in the company cared about product and for the first time in decades had aspirations higher than matching GM. But some things slipped through the cracks and those cars were undoubtedly them.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 08:22 AM
6th Gear Poster
 
94mncougar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Paul
Age: 30
Posts: 680
Send a message via AIM to 94mncougar
Not attacking anyone, just throwing my experience out there:
Its funny that I always hear German Engineering and that German Engineered cars are better, yet I have seen nothing but expense and poor reliability from them.

Maybe there is something I'm missing, but I see more VW, Audi, etc. breaking and the owners complaining of the costs to fix things than anything else. Heck, my friends and I have been driving "low quality" 80's/90's American cars until a few years ago with original motors, tranmissions, and (i'll admit) a rattling interior. But none of us ever had to spend more than $500 to keep them running.

Get to all the "high quality" newer German cars that I saw when I went to college and they were worthless money pits that were overly complicated to do the same task; thus, they were expensive and not engineered to be robust. Their interiors were rattle free however.

Stephen

Winter mods included:
- Developing Rocker Rust
- Saggy Suspension - fixed!
- Chipped paint
- I'm sure more to come... TOTALED
94mncougar is offline  
post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 02:39 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
Steven, I agree the German engineering today is purely an advertising slogan only to maintain some kind of status. But prior to the 1990s Mercedes Benz really did have gobs of engineering and quality and they could last forever with lax maintenence. And if something did break? They were so easy to work on for the average DIYer what even the most daunting repair was doable in an afternoon. They really did earn that image. VW even had a quality edge up until the manufacturing moved here with "US spec" models. That largely ended within the MK1/MK2 Golf/Rabbit/Jetta era.

I won't argue about today and their recent history. Mercedes-Benz now banks on building techy luxobarges to mask any deficiencies and BMW has largely morphed into a Mercedes clone as well. They're more like a late 80s Cadillac now, a time when Mercedes was the anti-Cadillac.

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 08:16 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
NetKeym's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,862
Well, the modern 4 stroke engine is an Otto engine invented by Nikolaus Otto (who was a German) in 1861.
Carl Benz (German) Mercedes-Benz patented the first petrol-based automobile in 1886 using Otto's engine.
The 'Shock Absorber' was invented in 1899 by Emile Mors (a Frenchman), but improved design still in use today was in 1901 by C. L. Horock (a German)
The Interstate system is based on the Autobahn conceived in the 1920's (in Germany) but not implemented until Hitler in the early 1930's.
The Volkswagen Beetle was the result of Hiter's proposal to provide a cheap automobile affordable by anybody.
Felix Wankel, the inventor of the Wankel rotary engine (Mazda) is German.
In 1922, the Duesenberg was the first automobile to use hydraulic brakes (a plant built in Indiana, USA by a German).
Mercedes-Benz had the first automobile with 4 wheel independent suspension in 1931.
Alfred Teves (German) invented the first anti-lock brakes system installed in production automobiles around 1984.

These are some of the automotive firsts I've found by Germans in searching the Internet for about 15 minutes.....

~Rick
TCCoA Sig
NetKeym is offline  
post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 11:28 PM
Seasoned PostWhore
 
Raptor22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Chico, California
Age: 23
Posts: 2,028
Quote:
Originally Posted by NetKeym View Post
Well, the modern 4 stroke engine is an Otto engine invented by Nikolaus Otto (who was a German) in 1861.
Carl Benz (German) Mercedes-Benz patented the first petrol-based automobile in 1886 using Otto's engine.
The 'Shock Absorber' was invented in 1899 by Emile Mors (a Frenchman), but improved design still in use today was in 1901 by C. L. Horock (a German)
The Interstate system is based on the Autobahn conceived in the 1920's (in Germany) but not implemented until Hitler in the early 1930's.
The Volkswagen Beetle was the result of Hiter's proposal to provide a cheap automobile affordable by anybody.
Felix Wankel, the inventor of the Wankel rotary engine (Mazda) is German.
In 1922, the Duesenberg was the first automobile to use hydraulic brakes (a plant built in Indiana, USA by a German).
Mercedes-Benz had the first automobile with 4 wheel independent suspension in 1931.
Alfred Teves (German) invented the first anti-lock brakes system installed in production automobiles around 1984.

These are some of the automotive firsts I've found by Germans in searching the Internet for about 15 minutes.....
The International Scout had ABS in the 70s...

[-----[ Conner ]-----] ASE P2 Automobile Parts Specialist - P4 General Motors Parts Consultant
The Blunderbird - 1989 Ford Thunderbird Photobucket
3.8L V6 / M5R2 / 141,754 miles
Thunderbird SC Suspension Swap - Eibach Pro-Kit
JBL Premium Audio Swap - JL CP108 Subwoofer
Resonator Delete - Magnaflow DI/SO Muffler - Custom 2.5in Exhaust
Raptor22 is offline  
post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 11:30 PM
Slightly Disjointed
Super Moderator
 
XR7-4.6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Roselle IL
Age: 28
Posts: 15,456
Garage
Send a message via Yahoo to XR7-4.6
As did Ford.

And the Beetle is hardly the first cheap mass production car. Even it's design is a knock off of Tatra

-Matt
XR7-4.6 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the TCCoA Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome