RESET's V6 to DOHC Swap

[RESET]

zep, did you use a Mark fuel pump or a Walbro pump? Most of the conversions I have read about used a Walbro 255 LPH pump. I am just wondering if I could get away with a stock mark pump. Although, I will probably need a better pump later on if I do some mods. I guess that decision can wait until I actually have a running engine that needs a pump.

[coolhandzep]

Currently I am using the stock pump tbird pump. It's probably not the best, but is adequate. I will probably throw a walbro in over the winter.

[RESET]

Quick update. I have gotten an EVTM for the 97 bird off of ebay. I am trying to get one for the Mark. I only saw two on ebay. One was 35 and the other 17. The one for 17 had the Make Offer button so I offered him 11. We shall see how that goes.

I will be putting the bird in the garage tomorrow morning and it will not be coming out until it is done. I am shooting for spring. About the only thing that is going to slow me down will be money. I should say that spring is my target for the completion of the engine swap. The paint and body work may take a little longer, again because of money. Any one own a body shop in the area that would cut me a deal if I helped with the prep work?

EDIT: I got the EVTM for the Mark on the way, $11.50 off of eBay. The bird is in the garage and the motor is on jack stands in the bay next to it so I can compare locations easily. It sure is nice having a 2 1/2 car garage that is 1 1/2 car deep. It sucked cleaning it though. It get's pretty well trashed during the summer with my projects because I never have time to clean up after my self.

[RESET]

I started tear down today. It took a little longer that I liked because one of the hood bolts didn't want to come out. I broke my star bit. So, I managed to get the hood removed and also removed the wiper motor and cowl vents. I am following the process described in my Chilton Manual. It should go a little faster tomorrow.

Sorry for the bad pic. I forgot to take the camera out to the garage and snapped this one with my cell.

I need some opinions. Would it make more sense/be easier to put the drive train in and then do the wiring to connect everything? Or, should I try to get the wiring done before I put everything in the car?

[JSGAuto]

Do it out, because the main engine bay harness runs along the passenger side shock tower.....right next to that header. Not a lot of room to work. Easy to put everything back in an empty engine bay.

[RESET]

I think I know what you are saying. Maybe I will do the ECU harness to engine bay harness with the engine out and then modify the engine harness with the engine in. The engine harness almost reaches the area as it is, I think. I may be able to just cut the loom and move things around then see what I have to extend to give the wires some slack.

I want to have the engine ready to pull by the weekend. I may have to work all weekend but I should have the six out by the end of next week. Then I should have the dash and engine bay wiring done by the end of the month.

[Nativedetroiter]

You don't need to change the dash wiring. Just the engine bro.

[RESET]

Native, I am using the Mark ECU and ECU Harness. I though someone said that the dash connectors, or one of them, is a different shape than what plugs into the dash harness on the bird. I still haven't gotten the EVTMs that I ordered so I am not sure. But that is what I was talking about. Just changing one of the connectors on the Mark ECU to dash connections, I hope.

[SCTbird1994]

Originally Posted by RESET

Native, I am using the Mark ECU and ECU Harness. I though someone said that the dash connectors, or one of them, is a different shape than what plugs into the dash harness on the bird. I still haven't gotten the EVTMs that I ordered so I am not sure. But that is what I was talking about. Just changing one of the connectors on the Mark ECU to dash connections, I hope.

If you used the Mark engine bay harness it is a different shape. If you re-use your Tbird engine bay harness, you will just need to splice it for the Mark ECU harness.

[master486]

I think you are going in the entirely wrong direction trying to use the Mark engine harness, especially the engine bay harness.

[Chris_Murder]

Just a heads up if your going to use the mark viii radiator you going to need the coolant bottle from a 4.6 along with a lower radiator hose from a 4.6, I didn't see one in your parts collection.

[SCTbird1994]

Originally Posted by Chris_Murder

Just a heads up if your going to use the mark viii radiator you going to need the coolant bottle from a 4.6 along with a lower radiator hose from a 4.6, I didn't see one in your parts collection.

You mean the 4 way hose setup with the Thermostat housing also right ?

[RESET]

Originally Posted by master486

I think you are going in the entirely wrong direction trying to use the Mark engine harness, especially the engine bay harness.

I am using the mark engine harness and the t-bird engine bay harness. Care to elaborate on why you think I am going the wrong route? I don't want to buy V8 bird stuff just to have to have it tuned to use it. I know I am going to have allot of wiring to change. I have already seen several connectors that aren't the same as well as a couple that aren't on the bird's bay harness at all. I still have to get the six out of the hole so any wiring is a little way off. Once I get the six out of the way, I will reassess the wiring and go from there. I will get SOHC stuff if I have to but I don't want to just because it would be easier.

[RESET]

Originally Posted by SCTbird1994

You mean the 4 way hose setup with the Thermostat housing also right ?

I just got done taking the six's radiator out. I set it next to the mark's rad and they look identical. Are you saying that the SOHC rad is different? Can someone post a pic or a link to what you are talking about?

[SCTbird1994]

Originally Posted by RESET

I just got done taking the six's radiator out. I set it next to the mark's rad and they look identical. Are you saying that the SOHC rad is different? Can someone post a pic or a link to what you are talking about?

No, you just need to replace the lower hose since yours was Cut .. you need the overflow bottle from a 4.6 - and maybe the hose that goes to that 4 way thermostat housing.

[RESET]

OK, I was planning on new belts and hoses anyway. I am still not quire sure about the other hose you are talking about. I removed three hoses from the rad. The two main ones coming from the engine and the small one coming from the overflow. Is this last one the one you are talking about?

EDIT: I took a look at my pics of the DOHC again and I think I know which hose you are talking about. The one that goes down towards the PS pump in my pic. Is this the one? I can't remember if it goes to something on the motor or not. I will have to take a look when I am out there again tomorrow.

[SCTbird1994]

The coolant overflow bottle has two hoses - the upper one that goes to the radiator, and the lower hose goes to your Thermostat hosing.

[RESET]

OK, so when I pick up an overflow. I will tell them that I need both hoses with it. Is the connector for the sending unit the same or am I going to have to splice that too?

[Chris_Murder]

The difference between the v6 and v8 radiator is one has a cap on the radiator with a generic overflow bottle and the othe has no cap and a pressurized overflow bottle.

[RESET]

Good thing I got the Mark's radiator then. At least I only have to get the overflow and hoses. In my earlier post I said that the two rads were identical. I just went back and looked at the pic I posted of the Mark rad and sure enough, it has no cap.

[RESET]

Here is where I left off yesterday.

And today, Magic floating car! Everything up top is disconnected. I have the exhaust bolts soaking in PB. If I don't have to work this weekend, the six should be out by Monday.


I think I figured out the fourth rad hose thing. Is this the 4-way t-stat housing where the second hose for the overflow goes?


And last thing. If anyone in the area has a K-Member I can buy, let me know.

[SCTbird1994]

Originally Posted by RESET

I think I figured out the fourth rad hose thing. Is this the 4-way t-stat housing where the second hose for the overflow goes?

Yes, that nipple in front is where the Lower overflow hose goes.

I just threw out a Front subframe last week .. turns out the subframe from a 1991is slightly different - the passenger side motor mount is a little further out than the DOHC mounts. Last time I put a 94 Mark engine into a 94 V6 Bird, I didnt have any issues with the mounts though.

[master486]

The K-members from 93 and up are the same.

[RESET]

I figured at '94 and up. Adding one more year to the list should make it a little easier for me to find one. Thanks.

On that note, would it be easier to take the engine out the top or the bottom? I am thinking that since I need to replace the K anyway, maybe I could leave the engine, trans and front suspension on the ground and lift the front of the car off of it. Are there any fasteners on the front end that like to snap rather than come off?

[SCTbird1994]

Originally Posted by RESET

I figured at '94 and up. Adding one more year to the list should make it a little easier for me to find one. Thanks.

On that note, would it be easier to take the engine out the top or the bottom? I am thinking that since I need to replace the K anyway, maybe I could leave the engine, trans and front suspension on the ground and lift the front of the car off of it. Are there any fasteners on the front end that like to snap rather than come off?

Yours is good .. I was just saying, I had a problem on the 91. Sorry to mislead.

As for the engine .. if you can lift the car high enough ( with a lift ), dropping it out the bottom is ok. Otherwise, it is a squeeze to get the engine / tranny out together. When you install the Mark, if you put it in with the trans, the K-member will need to be dropped a bit for oil pan clearance.

[RESET]

I guess I will have to see if I can lift it high enough. I have it prety high right now to get at the exhaust. I will take some measurements and see if it will clear. I thought I saw a pic in the gallery where a guy did it with an engine hoist. I have a 2 ton hoist that I could use, just have to see how high I can get it to lift the front of the car.

[coolhandzep]

I dropped my engine/trans/k-frame assembly out the bottom. Actually, I raised the car while the whole mess was supported by a platform of 4 by 4s, jacks, and jackstands. The car went up as the motor and trans stayed put. I had my car on a lift though. If I had to do that job on the floor I would pull the motor out of the top. On the floor it might be too difficult to safetly raise the car up enough while safely controlling it. With a lift, perfect vertical movement of the car is a simple button push/lever pull away. For ease of work my motor/trans was about 1.5 feet off the ground, the car had to be raised very high until it was clear. It was raised to the max when I used an engine hoist to 'trade motors' on my makeshift, but very stable 'scaffolding'.

[RESET]

I would love to be able to do that. Unfortunatelly, I don't have a lift in my garage. I will just have to make due. If I have to pull the motor out the top I will probably seperate it from teh trans. Then, with both of them out and the car back on jack stands, I will pull the K.

[RESET]

Exhaust and gas tank are off. I need to remove the drive shaft tomorrow. I didn't get the engine pulled like I wanted to. I had to work Saturday and today, someone showed up needing help changing their water pump. Still not a bad day's progress considering I am doing this all myself. I have yet another question. How do you lift the engine? I figured I would have to put some bolts in the heads or something but I don't want to use the wrong ones and have it come crashing down on me. Also, I would like to try to pull the engine and trans together, in case this changes which holes I should use. I think I will try leaving the rear end up in the air with the front on the ground to give me a better angle.

Ideas, Suggestions, Opinions?

P.S. If you have ever removed the AC pump from a DOHC Taurus without removing the engine, please PM me and give me a clue. That thing is what was actually bad on the car mentioned above.

[RESET]

What a day.
I snapped two wheels off of my creeper. I twisted off my 3\8-1\4 reducer. I did manage to get the drive shaft removed and the front end back on the ground. the trans mount is unbolted and setting on the x-member, which is loose but still bolted to the chassis. I will unbolt that when I actually get ready to remove the engine and trans. The motor mounts are unbolted.

The problem now is this.

My hoist won't reach the engine. I am going to have to remove the entire front end of the car, or figure out a way to lift the car off of the engine/trans/K sub assy.