96 4.6 burning oil, finally saw it.

whitedevil666 · 10-31-2009, 02:18 PM

I have a 96 4.6 'bird w/77k miles. It's an all origional car that was owned by old people. It does have a PI intake I put on it. It has been using oil since I got it at 70k. It is totally dry underneath, and until yesterday I never saw it smoke. Yesterday I beat my wife to the gym so I was sitting in the 'bird with the engine idling for 5-10 minutes. I noticed the idle was getting rougher as I was sitting there so I reved the engine just a little to see if it would help. The cloud of smoke caught my eye in the mirror. So I reved it a little more and it smoked but not as much. It seemed to stop after that so I decided to drive it around to see if it would start up again. I went behind the building and floored it, accelerating hard for a few seconds a few times and never saw any more smoke. It's my understanding that valve seals do this all the time on high mileage 94-95's, but mine is a low mileage 96.

Do you guys think it's worth it to throw some valve seals at it? I was going to get some PI heads for it, but have since decided an engine swap would suit me better. So not really looking to put too much money into this engine. Thanks!

vegeta1181 · 10-31-2009, 02:42 PM

My 95 started smoking around 80k miles. I drove it until 160k miles then swapped over to the 4v engine. I wouldn't replace the valve stem seals. I would drive it like it is and save the money for the engine swap later on.

paintme205 · 10-31-2009, 04:20 PM

Depending on how much oil you are burning, I would wait and get a new motor later on.

whitedevil666 · 11-02-2009, 10:01 PM

Sound advice. Why spend time and money on it when it's going away anyhow? I plan to check it at 1000 miles and see how much oil it used. I do hate just "not fixing" something though. Oh well, I guess I'll fix it with the swap! It's gonna be sweet.

ortbird · 11-03-2009, 11:43 AM

what oil are you using?

_95badbird · 11-03-2009, 12:01 PM

how much oil is it using between changes?
and how often are you changing it?

Mgino96tbird46 · 11-03-2009, 01:14 PM

Check to make sure one of your PCV tubes are not blocked. I had this happen to me once. At the time I had around 78K miles on the car. The engine would smoke at idle when I was waiting for work to open up. Turned out that my passenger side PCV tube was collapsed from being so old. Changed it out, engine stopped smoking. Check that before you start doing invasive repairs like doing the valve stem seals.

whitedevil666 · 11-03-2009, 02:14 PM

I had used mobil 1 5w30 on it last time, when I didn't know it had a problem. After 1500-2000 miles I made a hard turn in a parking lot and caught a glimpse of the "check gauges" light. I did it again and saw the oil pressure drop to zero for a second. It took 2 quarts to fill it up at that time. I had one of my guys do the oil change for me and I thought it might have started out low, so maybe it didn't burn all 2 quarts. I filled it up and didn't worry about it. Then it happened again, but this time I was right at 3k from my last oil change. So instead of pouring oil down it to see how far below the stick it was I just changed the oil. I used mobil standard 5w30 this time. I am getting close to 1000 miles since the oil change and I am eager to see how much is gone at that point.

The pcv tube is a good idea and I'll take a look at those this weekend. Some of the hoses are showing their age.

You know what's crazy? Since that day I have been watching like a hawk when I take off from a red light and I never see any smoke! I have been trying to see it do it in normal driving but I can't make it do it. I haven't tried letting it idle again.

Nitemare · 11-03-2009, 02:48 PM

Another +1 on engine swap if it is valve seals. I put 97 heads on a 94 engine and after labor and money spent, I wish I had just dropped a different engine in there.

_95badbird · 11-03-2009, 02:49 PM

so its safe to say its using about a quart every 1000 miles.

go pull the dipstick real qucik, and see how low it is......

Mgino96tbird46 · 11-03-2009, 06:38 PM

The Ford service manual says "Vehicles in normal service should get at least 900 miles per quart of oil after 10,000 miles." This is quoted from the Ford service manual for 1996 Thunderbird/ Cougar. Mine goes through around a quart every 1000 miles. Now, if you drive harder than "normal service" then oil consumption will normally be higher.

ortbird · 11-03-2009, 06:49 PM

That's a bit too much, IMO.
my 97 4.6L at 134k miles burns about 1 qt per 7,000 miles.

(I use Motorcraft 5w/30, and when I need to top it off, i add Havoline High Mileage 10w/30, which is a thicker oil; I think the combo gives me good protection over 7,000 miles...)

sousa632 · 11-03-2009, 09:34 PM

My bird sits at 151,120 miles and I noticed about a month ago that it huffs smoke after sitting at idle when warm, and at stoplights/signs. I took it on a 1000 mile trip about 2 weeks ago and used less than 1/2 qt of oil. Most of the time it uses about 1 qt/12-1500 miles. I'm at the same point that I want to do something about it, but I may just switch to a high milage oil and call it a day till it gets too bad, then PI swap it.

whitedevil666 · 11-03-2009, 10:32 PM

It's at 700-800 miles now, but the driveway is kinda sloped. I will pull it in the shop tomorrow and see how much she takes. I put 2 quarts, a funnel, and a shop rag in the trunk.

I think if I could solve the mystery smoke problem it would be ok for a while. The problem should be easy enough to duplicate, just let it idle in park with the ac off. 5-10 minutes later give it a little rev. Kinda hope it's a a hose sucking shut like a previous post suggested. Either way if it's less then 1 quart per 1000 miles I will let it ride. Should have some more info tomorrow! Thanks guys!

Mgino96tbird46 · 11-04-2009, 12:40 PM

A blocked PCV hose can increase oil consumption my allowing pressure to build up behind the valve stem seals, forcing oil past the seals.

whitedevil666 · 11-04-2009, 06:52 PM

Alright we've got a ghost. Car is at 77,768 right now, was at 77,020 when I got the oil changed on 10/14/2009. It's not low. it's probly 80% of the way up between the high and low marks. I also can't get it to smoke. Idled it for 10 minutes twice already then revved it up and nothing. AAARRGGHH!!

I also looked at my pcv hose real good and I don't think it will collapse. it fells pretty solid and most of the length of it is nylon.

I'm idling it again, going to try it at 15 minutes. What now??

whitedevil666 · 11-04-2009, 07:39 PM

Ok wait a minute. After it idled for 15 minutes it smoked when revved. It was good and warmed up by then. The hoses did not appear to be collapsed. I don't get it. A couple of my techs said it could be the rings. With all the mileage I see people on here getting out of these engines I don't see why mine would be worn out.

brettbolt · 11-04-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitedevil666

.... A couple of my techs said it could be the rings. With all the mileage I see people on here getting out of these engines I don't see why mine would be worn out.

Have you done a compression check? (Engine warm, all plugs out, wide open throttle).

whitedevil666 · 11-04-2009, 10:15 PM

No, but I guess I will be this weekend. Gonna take a real good look at those plugs too. Run by Ford and grab a PCV to throw on there while I'm there. Verify that the PCV hose is not filled up with something. We looked down the fill hole in the valve cover and it's pretty clean in there. Doubt it has ever missed an oil change. This thing really shouldn't be smoking. I am not used to having problems like this.

It only smoked when it was all the way up to temperature. Same conditions same day it wouldn't do it when it was not warmed up. What the crap does that mean???

_95badbird · 11-04-2009, 10:18 PM

its hard to really tell whats going on with just a compression check.
Do a leak down test instead.

whitedevil666 · 11-04-2009, 11:23 PM

I can probly borrow one. Good idea.

Mgino96tbird46 · 11-06-2009, 05:14 PM

My passenger side PCV hose was collapsed with the engine off. Because of the 90* bend and it is a rubber hose, it was crimped shut over time. It was also brittle at around the same mileage as your car. Since you have not burned more than half a quart in 700 miles, I wouldn't worry about it. At this point, your wasting gas testing the engine any further by idling and revving. I wouldn't fix what is not broken. Chillax and enjoy your Thunderbird. Just my 2 cents.

10-31-2009, 02:42 PM	#2
vegeta1181 3rd Gear Poster *Membership Expired* Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Bolingbrook, IL Car: 95 Tbird LX / 06 GTO Engine: 305 DOHC / 364 LS2 Age: 27 Posts: 132	My 95 started smoking around 80k miles. I drove it until 160k miles then swapped over to the 4v engine. I wouldn't replace the valve stem seals. I would drive it like it is and save the money for the engine swap later on. __________________ 1995 Thunderbird LX: 305 Big Bore DOHC Mach I Engine, 8.8 trakloc with 3.73 gears, 80mm LMAF, K&N cone air filter, custom intake tubing, Kooks 3/4 headers, true dual exhaust, no cats, EGR deleted, Cobra Cowl hood, Zenon body kit and many other upgrades . 4R70W: custom built by Faser Transmission.

10-31-2009, 04:20 PM	#3
paintme205 6th Gear Poster Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: lawton ok Car: 1996 thunderbird Engine: 4.6 PI Age: 24 Posts: 508	Depending on how much oil you are burning, I would wait and get a new motor later on. __________________ 96 v8 4.6 explorer, kooks headers, off road x, magnaflow mufflers, cl tb/plenum, lmaf, gt tube, xcal tune, alum shaft, 3800 dirty dog converter, darrin trans, 373 gears, hoosier slicks on fanblades, pbr brakes, apc seats, PS bypass belt, minor weight removal, 13.5 @104 12's NA is the goal.

11-03-2009, 12:01 PM	#6
_95badbird PostSlut Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Spring Texas Car: 9573 T-bird T-bird Engine: 5.8L 7.5L Age: 29 Posts: 10,154	how much oil is it using between changes? and how often are you changing it? __________________ Talk is cheap! Take your car to the track and PROVE your point!

11-03-2009, 01:14 PM	#7
Mgino96tbird46 5th Gear Poster Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Car: 1996 Thunderbird LX Engine: 4.6L V8 Age: 20 Posts: 450	Check to make sure one of your PCV tubes are not blocked. I had this happen to me once. At the time I had around 78K miles on the car. The engine would smoke at idle when I was waiting for work to open up. Turned out that my passenger side PCV tube was collapsed from being so old. Changed it out, engine stopped smoking. Check that before you start doing invasive repairs like doing the valve stem seals. __________________ 1996 Thunderbird LX stock 4.6L V8. MAC cold air. 225/60/15 BFG g-Force Sport V-rated. 172 rwhp 240 rwtq 1985 Mustang GT conv. underdrive pulleys, equal length headers, true dual exhaust, 3.55:1 8.8'' rear end. 235,000 miles on original motor.

11-03-2009, 02:48 PM	#9
Nitemare The lunatic is on the grass. *Membership Expired* Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Oklahoma Car: 1996 Cougar Engine: 4.6 Age: 19 Posts: 453 View Photo Gallery	Another +1 on engine swap if it is valve seals. I put 97 heads on a 94 engine and after labor and money spent, I wish I had just dropped a different engine in there. __________________ Currently: 96 Cougar 4.6 - 4.10's, 2.25" duals, high flow cats, PI intake, cam install waiting for a valve spring compressor, waiting for 255lph pump, eventual custom cowl hood, should be tuned in the next few months. 91 Cougar 3.8 - Found a 302 to build. 01 Focus 2.0 - Gutted.

11-03-2009, 11:43 AM	#5
ortbird 6th Gear Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Buies Creek, NC Car: 1997 Thunderbird LX spt Engine: 4.6 L V8 SOHC Posts: 550	what oil are you using?

11-03-2009, 02:49 PM	#10
_95badbird PostSlut Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Spring Texas Car: 9573 T-bird T-bird Engine: 5.8L 7.5L Age: 29 Posts: 10,154	so its safe to say its using about a quart every 1000 miles. go pull the dipstick real qucik, and see how low it is...... __________________ Talk is cheap! Take your car to the track and PROVE your point!

11-03-2009, 06:38 PM	#11
Mgino96tbird46 5th Gear Poster Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Car: 1996 Thunderbird LX Engine: 4.6L V8 Age: 20 Posts: 450	The Ford service manual says "Vehicles in normal service should get at least 900 miles per quart of oil after 10,000 miles." This is quoted from the Ford service manual for 1996 Thunderbird/ Cougar. Mine goes through around a quart every 1000 miles. Now, if you drive harder than "normal service" then oil consumption will normally be higher. __________________ 1996 Thunderbird LX stock 4.6L V8. MAC cold air. 225/60/15 BFG g-Force Sport V-rated. 172 rwhp 240 rwtq 1985 Mustang GT conv. underdrive pulleys, equal length headers, true dual exhaust, 3.55:1 8.8'' rear end. 235,000 miles on original motor. Last edited by Mgino96tbird46 : 11-03-2009 at 06:51 PM.

11-03-2009, 06:49 PM	#12
ortbird 6th Gear Poster Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Buies Creek, NC Car: 1997 Thunderbird LX spt Engine: 4.6 L V8 SOHC Posts: 550	That's a bit too much, IMO. my 97 4.6L at 134k miles burns about 1 qt per 7,000 miles. (I use Motorcraft 5w/30, and when I need to top it off, i add Havoline High Mileage 10w/30, which is a thicker oil; I think the combo gives me good protection over 7,000 miles...)

11-03-2009, 09:34 PM	#13
sousa632 4th Gear Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Forked River, NJ Car: 96 T-Bird LX Engine: 4.6 Age: 30 Posts: 282 Challenge sousa632!	My bird sits at 151,120 miles and I noticed about a month ago that it huffs smoke after sitting at idle when warm, and at stoplights/signs. I took it on a 1000 mile trip about 2 weeks ago and used less than 1/2 qt of oil. Most of the time it uses about 1 qt/12-1500 miles. I'm at the same point that I want to do something about it, but I may just switch to a high milage oil and call it a day till it gets too bad, then PI swap it. __________________ John 1996 LX 4.6L

11-04-2009, 12:40 PM	#15
Mgino96tbird46 5th Gear Poster Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Car: 1996 Thunderbird LX Engine: 4.6L V8 Age: 20 Posts: 450	A blocked PCV hose can increase oil consumption my allowing pressure to build up behind the valve stem seals, forcing oil past the seals. __________________ 1996 Thunderbird LX stock 4.6L V8. MAC cold air. 225/60/15 BFG g-Force Sport V-rated. 172 rwhp 240 rwtq 1985 Mustang GT conv. underdrive pulleys, equal length headers, true dual exhaust, 3.55:1 8.8'' rear end. 235,000 miles on original motor.

11-04-2009, 10:18 PM	#20
_95badbird PostSlut Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Spring Texas Car: 9573 T-bird T-bird Engine: 5.8L 7.5L Age: 29 Posts: 10,154	its hard to really tell whats going on with just a compression check. Do a leak down test instead. __________________ Talk is cheap! Take your car to the track and PROVE your point!

11-06-2009, 05:14 PM	#22
Mgino96tbird46 5th Gear Poster Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Virginia Beach, VA Car: 1996 Thunderbird LX Engine: 4.6L V8 Age: 20 Posts: 450	My passenger side PCV hose was collapsed with the engine off. Because of the 90* bend and it is a rubber hose, it was crimped shut over time. It was also brittle at around the same mileage as your car. Since you have not burned more than half a quart in 700 miles, I wouldn't worry about it. At this point, your wasting gas testing the engine any further by idling and revving. I wouldn't fix what is not broken. Chillax and enjoy your Thunderbird. Just my 2 cents. __________________ 1996 Thunderbird LX stock 4.6L V8. MAC cold air. 225/60/15 BFG g-Force Sport V-rated. 172 rwhp 240 rwtq 1985 Mustang GT conv. underdrive pulleys, equal length headers, true dual exhaust, 3.55:1 8.8'' rear end. 235,000 miles on original motor.

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