AOD racing application question

[Oregontbird]

Okay, so the AOD will be my 1/3 mile circle track transmission. As we all know it is a 1, 3, OD scenario. Looking for a good fix other that the 1-3-1 shuffle to stay in 2nd. If I could manage, I would prefer to let the tranny stay in 3rd as 3rd and OD are direct drive. It becomes a tire radius and rear gear selection matter to keep the tranny spinning in 3rd. Thoughts about 3:73 or 4:10 rear for 1/3rd mile use? Stock 5.0 motor by rule.

Having said that, the transmission shifts on hydraulic pressure, so shift points are determined by the pressure at the hydraulic valve. It is obvious my circle car is going over budget and would like to avoid the several hundred cost of a Lentech manual valve body and massage its direct drive capability. Has anybody ever massaged/modified the hydraulic valve pressure so it won't shift down out of 3rd once the valve has reached X pressure? My base understanding is that as speed goes up, hydraulic pressure goes up 45 at 45, 60 at 60, etc.

As it reaches these pressure bench marks it shifts, so in theory if you can manipulate valve pressure, you can manipulate shifts or lack of shifts/downshifts. By controlling tv pressure with springs? So If you run a carbed car without TV hook up and manage TV pressure you can manage gear selection. "1" for 1st and "D" for 3rd because of tv pressure?

If direct drive, essentially it functions like a manual with decel/braking if it can remain in direct configuration. Also in theory there is less heat build-up, because it is not slipping/generating heat.

I'm finding that building new cars is an education nightmare, especially if you go unconventional chassis/drive choice and you are bacially a moron, although stock is stock and it can't be exchanged for another tranny ie an AOD-E.

[byrd_of_thunder]

swap in an aode

[tbirdtess]

Hello

Why aode??

[byrd_of_thunder]

electronic, tuneable

[tbirdtess]

Hello

the 4R70W would have the better ratio with the 3.73's or 4.10's

Motive gear has 5.71 or 6.14's that could work the aod in 3
8.8 center.

I run 3.90's with my AOD in 2

Swapping to the 4R70W & 3.73's to try.

[Nitemare]

Originally Posted by byrd_of_thunder

swap in an aode

Originally Posted by Oregontbird

although stock is stock and it can't be exchanged for another tranny ie an AOD-E.

Reading fail?


Anyway, the way I understand it, you're basically wanting to get manual valve body functions without actually using a manual valve body?

[Oregontbird]

I have to stay with the original AOD by rule.

Yes I want to cheat the tranny without having to pay $650.00 for a manual valve body. $650.00 is a set of fully adjustable Koni struts/shocks and heavy springs. I need to budget wisely to keep this from being an out of budget car. Most of the stuff I will get is from trading, other like OEM applications, etc. Some of the stuff, such as shocks you just don't come across in a yard, so I need to spend the $$ there.

A manual valve body is the best scenario agreed. But at nearly $700.00 with gaskets, valve, fluid, etc. cost is prohibitive and would like to spend it elsewhere.

My theory is that if pressure is manipulated then it will stay in 3rd or if gear lowered enough you get a direct drive transmission with a welded rear and you get a stock transmission that works as a direct race tranny. 1 and 2 are just get you rolling gears as you couldn't get the car moving in direct drive by removing them.

Need some theory and ideas. This is a crazy idea, so I won't rule out crazy solutions. Necessity sometime breeds crazy ideas that may actually have a way of just working.

[tbirdtess]

Hello

What is the rule? Stock for the car?

[tinman_72]

Google "aod epoxy mod".

[Oregontbird]

OEM basically for that car. Little more complicated, but the car must use original component pieces. In my case (as in my 5.0 engine post) no FI, so must use most previous carb/intake rule or optional 4412 carb.

They make it as confusing as possible...as you know. Doesn't have to make sense, just has to be legal. Just like your series, Tbird didn't come with 3.90 rears, but that is what they mandate in your case. Same deal, OEM except where we state differently with some wiggle room for certain systems.

I'll do some checking on that mod suggestion listed.

[tbirdtess]

Hello

Well a 4R70W is OEM for the mn12 Thunderbird.
You would need A 3.8 version.(94-97)

My rule states a 3speed automatic. I have be running an AOD for 3 years now.
Trying to get away from the cable.

I don't know around there But most racers don't know Fords at all.
I am the ONLY Ford racing at my track for 6 years.

Unless you win every race don't think anyone would even look.

Paul

[dirtyd0g]

Easy solution, swap the 4r gearset into the aod with a manual valvebody with fixed line pressure, no cable, no hassle, no tricking the rules. Delete the direct drive and use the right converter, you may find yourself using 3rd.
Alan

[Oregontbird]

The epoxy mod is close, but it doesn't give me the 3rd direct without giving me OD when I back out of the throttle for turns, etc.

I was trying to think outside the box, but it appears the manual valve body is the way to roll. Questions though:

If I install a manual valve body with e-switch for OD engagement:

If in "1" it will hold 1, if in "D" it holds 2, and in OD it holds 3 with manual downshift to "D" or "1" by shift selector?

-or-

It will downshift through from 2 to 1 (kickdown) in "D" and downshift from 3-2-1 in "OD"?

Not clear on the holding principal with the manual valve body whether it just doesn't allow upshift but still functions as an auto for downshift/kickdown. Prefer total manual control in this use of course.

[tbirdtess]

Hello

What gear do you want to run again?

[Oregontbird]

In theory 3rd is the chosen gear as it is essentially direct drive. In theory it is a 1:1 scenario. Give X amount of gas get X of drive based upon throttle input and traction available.

Tbirdtess, told to go GM probably like you were. Told Ford would be a PITA to get to work. I will be the sole Ford guy around like you. I personally will run the rules, so if I am competitive it will be me, not me cheating. (I will work within the rule set for any mods)

Never been one to be to conventional so I need to find a legal way to make this work for the best. Sounds like manual valve body or build it for running 2nd, either way I better get some more padding in the wallet.

For review, I thought I could control VB pressure to eliminate pesky unwanted shifts, although not a probable solution.

Great post on epoxy mod leader (could choose to run and hold 2nd under this scenario...however probably some heat issues that may be unwanted since auto slippage causes heat) If kickdown is an issue with manual VB this will be the choice and will gear for holding 2nd.

Manual valve body, but unclear if it is a stick controlled to hold and not kickdown scenario. If you select the proper gear by stick and it doesn't kickdown it is expensive yet viable. (traction issue on dirt where you spin instead of drive on kickdown. Of couse controlled drift through apex to straighten and accelerate with good throttle input to drive. If it kicks down the chassis is upset and instead of linear aceleration you get a lateral accel and improper drive down the straight)

[tbirdtess]

Hello

Find out what gear the Gm guy's are running at your track. Also what trany.

I think the 3.73's are to low for a 1/3 & AOD. Maybe 4.10 or 4.30's
You will NOT be running in 3rd.

My AOD is stock, No special VB. I only have an 11" converter.(see dirtydog)
I shift 1-3-1 This will hold 2nd, unless you slow down to much.
It only drops into 1st. on cautions. shift to 3, cool engine on caution laps.
When ready to go green pull back to 1. No Problem.

As for the TV cable. I made my own upper bracket from a mid 80's car & welded on the tab to the carb for it. I also used the adapter on the Holley(7448)
Stock appearing thing.

I am going to try the 4R70W & 3.73's to try to get away from the TV cable.
The TV cable Will not go to the OLDer carb's

I also try to follow the rules!

[dirtyd0g]

I don't suggest keeping the direct drive. Your car will likely fall on it's face on the shift into 3rd forcing you to downshift again, just in time to put it into the corner. I think it will cost you time. There is also the fact that direct drive is weak, unless you put a $900 direct drum in it and a hardened input shaft with an expensive converter you will have nothing but problems on that setup.
Alan

[Oregontbird]

Okay I'm listening and learning. Thanks for the input guys. Every littel morsel gets me closer.

So based upon the input I'm getting 2nd gear should be the gear of choice, so the epoxy mod (cheap and easily doable...if I can find links with actual pictures instead of X's where they used to be). Under this scenario "D" for 2 will be the selection and will hold 2nd without kickdown.

Now given that advice and the epoxy mod, is 3.73 more realistic or should I jump on 4.10? remember basically stock 93 5.0 with retro intake manifold and Holley 4418.

With the Holley 4418 I can use the sonnax tv bracket. Should it be adjusted as normal?

[tbirdtess]

Hello

Did you find out the gear(rear gear ratio) & trany the gm guy are running?

BTW I have run my 92Ho with the 4.10's
Both with an AOD & C4, 2nd gear.

Was hitting 6000rpm+ no problems.

Paul

The Holley carb is 4412.

[Oregontbird]

I was fortunate enough to get some advice from a really great guy in Missouri who makes a 3 spd (no OD) valve body for the AOD. A true gentleman that frequents clickclickracing.com. Sounds like this is just up my alley and will be able to swap my rear to get the right rpm.

Oops typo on the carb #'s. Looks like class top 5 runner was on a 3 spd saginaw with 3.43 rear. Still checking on others with GM's.

Thanks to a great guy:

Dan Gilsdorf
Silverfox Performance Transmission LLC
515 Linwood Street
Pleasant Hill, Missouri 64080
816-365-6215
www.SilverFoxTrans.com

[tbirdtess]

Originally Posted by Oregontbird

Oops typo on the carb #'s. Looks like class top 5 runner was on a 3 spd saginaw with 3.43 rear. Still checking on others with GM's.

Hi
How can he run a 3 spd?? They don't put them in car's anymore.

[Oregontbird]

In that case it's an old camaro...checking the sale forums to grab the info. You know many of the guys are kinda secretive.