4R70W j-mod in 2004 F150

[SilverFox]

Can the J-mad be applied to a 2004 4R70W (4R75W) in an F150 the same as it can in mustang/t-birds? I notice the articals I have found were writen back in the 90's and I can not find any info reguarding an tranies later than 1999.
SO the question is, is there any sites with 1999+ shift kit (j-mods) information that I might look at. I only assume that it would be similar mods, but the seperator plate gaskets changed in 2001 according to my supplier and I would hate to bust a hole out in the wrong spot.

[Silver95Bird]

Yes, you can - but you'll find that most of the changes to an 01+ VB will actually be very small. Ten years later, someone finally realized the engineers were right and started building them halfway decently. 99% of the locations are the same. The gaskets may change, but the holes stay in about the same spots. Use the article and you'll be fine.

[SilverFox]

Thank you sir.....I assume since the tranny is so new (2004) that most of the apprpriate and best mods are already installed by Ford......I will check on the MECHOCW, but I will not bother with accumulators.

[Darrin]

NO! DO NOT DO THAT!!!
The truck has a different valve body and it won't work properly. You will need to find an alternative. I am not saying who, but there are some good modified valve bodies out there. You can find what you need over at www.f150online.com

Just FYI, that may be a 4R75(W or E or whatever its called. I am getting conflicting info but ford parts says it's still a W) and not a 4R70W.

[SilverFox]

Oh.....good call Darin!!
I just checked my books and it lists the 4R75W or E as the 5.4L tranny of choice!
Guess I will look for shift kits for these - I will take pics when inside and maybe we can apply (j-mod) stuff to it - It might not be that much of a different tranny....who knows. Okay thnaks.

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by SilverFox

Oh.....good call Darin!!
I just checked my books and it lists the 4R75W or E as the 5.4L tranny of choice!
Guess I will look for shift kits for these - I will take pics when inside and maybe we can apply (j-mod) stuff to it - It might not be that much of a different tranny....who knows. Okay thnaks.

Even if it looks the same it will have different spring setups on the valves than a car and the same mods won't work the same way. To be clear, I am not talking about the accumulator springs. I am talking about the springs inside the valve body itself.

[JustinH]

Originally Posted by Darrin

NO! DO NOT DO THAT!!!
The truck has a different valve body and it won't work properly. You will need to find an alternative. I am not saying who, but there are some good modified valve bodies out there. You can find what you need over at www.f150online.com

Just FYI, that may be a 4R75(W or E or whatever its called. I am getting conflicting info but ford parts says it's still a W) and not a 4R70W.

The 4r75w is in the new trucks, vans, and the marauders.

This transmission will work in a thunderbird, or any rwd 4r70w application for that matter. A little birdy told me that it can take wot 3-OD shifts.

JH

[SilverFox]

I FIGURED IT OUT......THE 4R75 IS A BEEFY 4R70.

A little birdy (my family tranny guy freind) said the 75 has harder/packed internals than the 70 due to it's abuse in the trucks. The VB is the same with excpetion of some springs and OD holding power is beefed considerably! I answered my own question.....thanks guys. Now we know the f150/f250 with both 4.6 and 5.4 have usable car trannies and internals.

[Darrin]

Originally Posted by SilverFox

Now we know the f150/f250 with both 4.6 and 5.4 have usable car trannies and internals.

Except for the valve body of course. It still has a different spring setup on the valving and won't work properly.

[Warlockguitarman]

so i could buy a truck tranny 4r75 and it will fit in my 96 bird? would this work, im gonna need somthing stronger to handle the power i am going to have.

[Darrin]

Define "the power i am going to have" to help me answer what you need.

I just looked at your sig. Do you have any idea of what the final horsepower goal is. I know you will have a lot of torque on the gas.

[Darrin]

I am going to have to go look at a 4R75W. Ford is advertising a sealed case and lifetime transmission fluid along with a new and more intuitive electronic control.
I don't know what all of that means when it comes to physical changes and I have never even looked at one of these. I am heading over to the dealer as soon as I can get out of here today. I am going to at least look at the pan and talk to the techs to see what I can find out.

[2vmodular]

you will be replacing the overdrive band rather frequently if you do WOT shifts into overdrive.

Originally Posted by JustinH

A little birdy told me that it can take wot 3-OD shifts.

[JustinH]

Originally Posted by 2vmodular

you will be replacing the overdrive band rather frequently if you do WOT shifts into overdrive.

Thanks but I was referring to a 4r75w, not a 4r70w.

[2vmodular]

the o/d band in the 4r75w is not suitable for WOT shifts into overdrive either.

Originally Posted by JustinH

I was referring to a 4r75w, not a 4r70w.

[Warlockguitarman]

i plan on running low 12's, pnped pi heads, stage 2 cams, 100 shot, 3 grand stall, headers, maybe 270 hp w/o nitrous 360 or so with it. not totally sure on that though. but i know at about 500 ft/lbs torque

[SilverFox]

You could run any updated 70W with that combo - maybe suggest hard input. No need for 75W, but if you find one, why not get the best at first right. I would say the 75W is hard to come accross cheap.

As for NO WOT OD shifts.....deffinetly not! No OD that I have seen is suitable for that. If you need WOT OD at the track with a 4R70W- you need gears or an AOD gear set!

[WkStill]

Its beefier, hence the 4R [70] W part,

ie,
4r55
4r70w
4r75w/e
4r100

5r55

1 Digit = # of Forward Gears
2 Digit = R for Rear Wheel, X for Front Wheel
Next 2/3 Digits Suppose to be some Torque/strength rating
Next Digit Suppose to be for Gearset, W = Wide, E is no-longer used? (As all are Electronic)

don't qoute me on that.. :-)

C6 -> E40D -> 4r100
AOD -> AODE -> 4r70w

[Darrin]

If anyone wants it, I can get an 05 4r75w with 130 miles on it for $900. That is 130 miles, not 130k. I am thinking about buying it and taking it apart if nobody else wants it.

[SilverFox]

Lot of money for just a "just cause i want too" but it would be nice to compare the internals to validify the beefieness of the 75....sounds cool. I don't need it though.

Is the 5R55 in the 05Mustang? If so I hear that is not that great for power usage, since it is 5 gears packed in the same space as the 4 we have now.

When I do the j-mod to the 75W with the 5.4L in front of it, do you think I should go with the 300+ settings since it is truck? Or keep it at mild.....?
i have never ridden in a car witht he J-mod to feel from expereince what the shift kit is like


I use a fork lift to remove trannies......pretty easy.

[Darrin]

You still can't do a j-mod to that because it is out of a truck and has a truck valve body. They are different in the spring setup inside the valve body. I really tried to be very clear on that before. It won't do what you are wanting it to. It will drive like it is broken.
Now, the car guys could take the truck valve body out and put in a car valve body and it would work if the valve body will swap from a 4R70W

[SilverFox]

I hear you Darrin....I am not saying you are wrong, but here is the deal - maybe we can figure it out.

I call the tranny shops and they said the VB is the same as the 70W with different rate springs. The sep plate is the same ford # as the 70W, and the gaskets are the same as the 70W. With that being said, we will drop the VB and check the holes against the j-mod suggested holes. If the holes are far off from the 70W plate, then we might decided against it - but according to the tranny shops I have spoken with. I don't know you from Adam, so maybe you are a tranny guy and work on 75W's - I will still listen to your oppinions and take them. It is only a peice of steal with holes in it, we can get another one if we fail missrabley.
I understand that the spring rates are not the same as the 70W, but if the holes are the same in the plate. One guy that hasn't chimmed in is dirtydog, maybe he has some insight. I am still listening, but up to now from my research (may or maybe not fact) the 75W is the same as the 70W with VB spring upgrades and better internals. The J-mod holes listing still do the same thing no matter what size the hole is - so we could build our own oppinions about what size the holes should be according to how JERRY listed the holes and thier function....if we want harder 2nd gear the hole Jerry listed is still the same hole - make it bigger ......... right?

[Darrin]

I explained spring rates to you in reply to your PM. Please think about spring RATE for me now, ok.
Alan (dirtyd0g) has chimed in on this repeatedly on the f150online forum that I pointed you to. He and I are on exactly the same letter of the same page here.
I am trying to help you from wasting the same time and money as many before you have is all. You can choose to listen or not. Just do me the immense favor of coming back here after you do this and tell everyone exactly what happened, ok?
If you use a car valve body in a truck, you will get stupid shifts too. The computer is set up differently.
I will make sure Alan posts on this immediately as soon as he gets home.

[Darrin]

I am on the phone with Alan right now and he said he talked to you about this in PM too. He doesn't know why you want to drag him into this thread when he said he told you he is not a tranny guy. He said to tell you when he needs a tranny built that he comes to me.
Now, can you provide me with a part number for that seperator plate you are going to go drilling up?
When you screw that one up the only way to get another is to buy the whole valve body for about $300.
I got fairly angry when Alan told me he told you this already in PM and you sit here and say he hasn't chimed in yet. What exactly are you up to?

[SilverFox]

Sorry I don't get notifications that people PM me, I did not see that Alen had PM'ed me until just a bit ago. Don't be mad dude, I'm just trying to reach your level of intelignece on the situation. You are obviously a smart guy and I appriciate your insight and diligence to provide me with up to date info on what we are speaking about. So don't be angry.....As for Alen I did reply to his comments and right now I am looking for the threads on f150 site to see what those guys did /didn't do. I don't WANT to **** this tranny up if it has been know to be absolutely unsuccesful. Not trying to start anything.

As for the plate #, I will try to find it if it is listed on the plate, I will also get the VB# if I can. More info the better. Since we are pretty sure it ain't going to work, I will not bother with it. Keep me informed.

[Darrin]

Ok, you need to know there have been some people sent in here recently by a real lowlife dickhead to stir up trouble so we are being very cautious.
But, the seperator plate is not seperately serviced. It only comes with the complete valve body assy. The list on it is close to $400 for that truck if I remember correctly.
Sorry to have gone into attack mode, but the story wasn't adding up when I was talking to Alan and he said that you asked him to come into this thread.

[dirtyd0g]

Originally Posted by Warlockguitarman

i plan on running low 12's, pnped pi heads, stage 2 cams, 100 shot, 3 grand stall, headers, maybe 270 hp w/o nitrous 360 or so with it. not totally sure on that though. but i know at about 500 ft/lbs torque

You will not be happy with 3000 stall. Go with about 3500.

WKstill,
Don't forget the other rwd transmissions
A4LD-4R44E-4R55E-5R55E-5R55N-5R55W
These are all based on the ranger series of transmissions, IMO they are junk.

[Factory Tech]

A few things I noticed on this thread.

The 4R75 will not replace the 4R70W easily, it has an intermediate speed sensor and your wiring has nothing for it to plug into.

The valve body for a 4R70W and a 4R75 are almost exactly the same, have the same casting and wormtrail, but as Darrin Mentioned, it does have different spring rates.

The 4R75 is called the 4R75E some places, the 4R75W others, within Ford, no real reason, just different people not getting it straight, both are more or less correct. The internal differences are extremely minor, the biggest difference is actually the extra sensor. and an upgraded converter clutch.

I make a kit that comes with a separator plate only, the new 1-2 accumulator spring and gaskets, with it, you can add it to whatever model valve body you have an still be correct on the other settings, you can also "up" it for higher settings much like a J-Mod, without risking the original plate in your valve body, it's set up for what corrosponds to a 350 setting and if you drill it and decide you shouldn't have, I'll replace the plate only (if you bought it from me) for $20, so there's no risk with this kit.


Finally, the 5R55S in the 05 Mustang is an evolution of the C3-A4LD-4R44E/W-5R44E/W series of transmission, it's closest cousin is the 5R55N from the T-bird/Lincoln LS/Jaguar S Type (which now uses the 5R55S also) and the Explorer/Ranger Tranny. The one in the Mustang is built in France, but the Licncoln/T Bird model is built in Sharonville. The Difference between a 5R55N and a 5R55S is the S is synchronized and the N wasn't. There is an extra clutch pack in the bottom of the N models.

Hope this helps,

G

[Factory Tech]

If anyone with a 96-2000 model wants to try the kit I mentioned above, I'll give Alan (dirtydog) 5 of them for test units, just so some people can see what they are. I think it's a pretty good kit. I haven't priced them out yet, but I think we're looking at about $75.

G

[2vmodular]

if installing a late model transmission assembly into an earlier vehicle, the tss sensor will be the least of your problems. you could just leave the sensor disconnected. you could also order a plug for the hole for around $5 from your local ford dealer.

Originally Posted by Factory Tech

A few things I noticed on this thread.

The 4R75 will not replace the 4R70W easily, it has an intermediate speed sensor and your wiring has nothing for it to plug into.

there have been hundreds of different valve body spring combinations used in the aode & 4r70w over the years. there have also been countless revisions to the torque converter assembly over the years too.

The valve body for a 4R70W and a 4R75 are almost exactly the same, have the same casting and wormtrail, but as Darrin Mentioned, it does have different spring rates.

The 4R75 is called the 4R75E some places, the 4R75W others, within Ford, no real reason, just different people not getting it straight, both are more or less correct. The internal differences are extremely minor, the biggest difference is actually the extra sensor. and an upgraded converter clutch.

I make a kit that comes with a separator plate only, the new 1-2 accumulator spring and gaskets, with it, you can add it to whatever model valve body you have an still be correct on the other settings, you can also "up" it for higher settings much like a J-Mod, without risking the original plate in your valve body, it's set up for what corrosponds to a 350 setting and if you drill it and decide you shouldn't have, I'll replace the plate only (if you bought it from me) for $20, so there's no risk with this kit.

yep, it'll be amusing to see someone attempt to drill out the seperator plate on their 05' mustang using the template for a 4r70w valvebody.

Finally, the 5R55S in the 05 Mustang is an evolution of the C3-A4LD-4R44E/W-5R44E/W series of transmission, it's closest cousin is the 5R55N from the T-bird/Lincoln LS/Jaguar S Type (which now uses the 5R55S also) and the Explorer/Ranger Tranny. The one in the Mustang is built in France, but the Licncoln/T Bird model is built in Sharonville. The Difference between a 5R55N and a 5R55S is the S is synchronized and the N wasn't. There is an extra clutch pack in the bottom of the N models.