3.8 SC swap? - TCCoA Forums
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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3.8 SC swap?

I need some advice from the SC guys. How possible on a small budget would it be to swap a SC 3.8 from a 89 Coug into my 97 3.8 Thunderbird? I've also posted this in the 3.8 section, I'm not sure which section is best and though it's an xr-7, I figure the SC 3.8 and XR-7 Supercharged 3.8 engines are pretty much the same.

What would be the biggest difficulties. Let say I had the whole car.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 08:42 PM
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It's been done...

Would I do it again? Probably not, I'd just find a Super Coupe and sell the car you have. Unless you are REALLY attached to your car. Or just have some spare time since it probably won't be just a weekend thing.

Not only an engine and trans swap, but you'd have to take the rest of the drivetrain. Plus wiring differences. You'll probably have to take the EEC along with atleast that part of the harness that goes into the engine.

Just a short thought of an SC swap

-Melon

1994 Thunderbird SC 3.8L Supercharged
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Melon View Post
It's been done...

Would I do it again? Probably not, I'd just find a Super Coupe and sell the car you have. Unless you are REALLY attached to your car. Or just have some spare time since it probably won't be just a weekend thing.

Not only an engine and trans swap, but you'd have to take the rest of the drivetrain. Plus wiring differences. You'll probably have to take the EEC along with atleast that part of the harness that goes into the engine.

Just a short thought of an SC swap

-Melon
You've done this Andy? The thing is, I really like MY car, mainly because it's MY first car, and I really like the look of the 96/97. I think it'd be awesome to have a 97 "SC". I'm just wondering if it would be something do able, without a ton of money.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 09:43 PM
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Do-able? Certainly yes.

Without alot of money? Depends on your definition. I could add up what was spent when the swap was done on mine, but I had a few mods thrown in as well plus the cost of upgrading some parts. I think I spent in the neighborhood of $2000 by the time it was all done, but I needed some things you may not need.

In a weekend? How many people have you got around that can help and actually know what they are doing? And that like you that would probably spend literally 48-60 hours working almost non-stop on a car. Plus the tools available and don't have to track anything down. Even if everything is ready to go with the new motor, etc - you still have to pull your drivetrain, swap in the new, and wiring. And then hope that it's going to work.

Mine was my first car as well. I'm sure down the road I'll kick myself for doing what I did - but I just got tired of messing with it.

-Melon

EDIT: If you're set on having an SC - A) I'd look into the Vortech kit. Or B) Just buy an SC. I realize neither one is probably feasible at the moment.

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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-19-2009, 10:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melon View Post
Do-able? Certainly yes.

Without alot of money? Depends on your definition. I could add up what was spent when the swap was done on mine, but I had a few mods thrown in as well plus the cost of upgrading some parts. I think I spent in the neighborhood of $2000 by the time it was all done, but I needed some things you may not need.

In a weekend? How many people have you got around that can help and actually know what they are doing? And that like you that would probably spend literally 48-60 hours working almost non-stop on a car. Plus the tools available and don't have to track anything down. Even if everything is ready to go with the new motor, etc - you still have to pull your drivetrain, swap in the new, and wiring. And then hope that it's going to work.

Mine was my first car as well. I'm sure down the road I'll kick myself for doing what I did - but I just got tired of messing with it.

-Melon

EDIT: If you're set on having an SC - A) I'd look into the Vortech kit. Or B) Just buy an SC. I realize neither one is probably feasible at the moment.
I don't know if my engine could take much from the Vortech, it's no spring chicken. I could probably go 2 weeks without the car, so that may not be much of a problem. Lets say I do buy that Coug, and take the engine out, and then get most of the money back from parting it out and selling my engine. So lets say I can get what I need for $200, what other expenses would I need to expect.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 03:11 PM
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Even if you check anything over with the engine - assuming the seller took care of the rebuilt motor - and you just need the basics, such as all the fluids (oil, trans fluid and coolant) new belts wouldn't hurt, motor mounts, trans mount, maybe differential mounts, and anything else that you may decide to do while everything is out. Plus you'll have to come up with a 4R70W to hold up to the SC torque since the trans that is with the engine is an AOD.

And a Vortech isn't that bad on your engine - the boost doesn't come on until the higher RPM's instead of the Super Coupe where the boost is at lower RPM's.

-Melon

1994 Thunderbird SC 3.8L Supercharged
1999 Crown Victoria P71 4.6
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 03:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melon View Post
Even if you check anything over with the engine - assuming the seller took care of the rebuilt motor - and you just need the basics, such as all the fluids (oil, trans fluid and coolant) new belts wouldn't hurt, motor mounts, trans mount, maybe differential mounts, and anything else that you may decide to do while everything is out. Plus you'll have to come up with a 4R70W to hold up to the SC torque since the trans that is with the engine is an AOD.

And a Vortech isn't that bad on your engine - the boost doesn't come on until the higher RPM's instead of the Super Coupe where the boost is at lower RPM's.

-Melon
Wouldn't my 4R70W be able to take it? If not, I'd be alright finding a 5 speed
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 04:44 PM
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Not your V6 4R70W. Not for very long I bet.

-Melon

1994 Thunderbird SC 3.8L Supercharged
1999 Crown Victoria P71 4.6
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 05:33 PM
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I can pull a SC motor in ~8 hours with only hand tools, so I'd say it is a weekend project (have had both a NA 3.8 and SC). EEC must be changed (but that's simple), Trans replaced with AOD or add a Bauman unit for a rebuilt 4R70W and have appropriate Drive shaft and a 8.8 rear end. Half shafts should be ok, should be.

The 89 requires the ICM that was not integrated into the EEC until 94 (by my understanding), that is why the EECs must be changed. I'd suggest also adding a boost gauge in the cabin.

From what I hear finding a SC M5R2 is going to be real fun, the Ranger's shifter is located differently. T45 and T56 are not ideal for the SC (cam and blower speed issues).

If all else fails get a bigger hammer!

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-20-2009, 09:58 PM
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I've removed and replace a 3.8l sc in a 94SC that I have, and I've put in a 4.6l DOHC in my 96LX. From what little I know I would think you might get away with pulling your 3.8l NA wiring harness off and putting it on the SC motor and re-programming your EEC-V computer. There is no wires that go to supercharger. The computer would freak out because of the MAF input and the injectors would not schedule the right amount of fuel. You would also have to cross over the Spark ignition system over from the NA engine to match the computer. You would most definitely have to upgrade the transmission, My 96 with the Cobra, I'm just waiting for my Transmission to go south.

May the Gremlins never find you.
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-23-2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly360 View Post
I've removed and replace a 3.8l sc in a 94SC that I have, and I've put in a 4.6l DOHC in my 96LX. From what little I know I would think you might get away with pulling your 3.8l NA wiring harness off and putting it on the SC motor and re-programming your EEC-V computer. There is no wires that go to supercharger. The computer would freak out because of the MAF input and the injectors would not schedule the right amount of fuel. You would also have to cross over the Spark ignition system over from the NA engine to match the computer. You would most definitely have to upgrade the transmission, My 96 with the Cobra, I'm just waiting for my Transmission to go south.
The DIS harness on a 89-93 SC unlike the 94+ harness has connectors for the ICM, and I have not heard of anyone trying to use a tune to drop the ICM.

If all else fails get a bigger hammer!

93 SC Tbird
MPII w/ Plenum,90mm MAF, 85mm TB, 40# Injectors, 255 lph FP, Double IC w/fan, SCT Chip (Tuned by Jerry),3/4" Raised Top, F52-TT TC, SilverFox AOD 550, SPT-R VB
96 1/2 XR7 Sold and Salvaged
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