Car won't start after A/C refill. - TCCoA Forums
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post #1 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Car won't start after A/C refill.

My BF refilled my A/C today and I got a check engine light. We shut the car off and restarted to see if the light stayed, but the car wouldn't start! It tries, but won't turn over. We let it sit for a while b/c it had been idling for a while. He just tried it again, and it still won't start. He didn't mess with anything else.

This is weird. Any thoughts?

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post #2 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 05:08 PM
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sounds like the a/c compressor locked up.Remove the belt and try to start it.

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post #3 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 06:32 PM
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A locked up A/C compressor wouldn't prevent the car from starting because the clutch relay is locked out during cranking. First thing you need to do is get the codes read, then we can start pinpointing the problem.

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post #4 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks.

He had it running just a minute ago. The oil pressure gauge went up to about where it is normally and then dropped to nothing. But, there was no knocking or anything. It sounded like it was running normally. He shut it off. A few minutes later (when I came in there to type this actually) I heard him start it again. This time the gauge stayed down. But again, no knocking or anything.

It's being rolled into the shop right now so we can try to figure this out. I sold my '06 F150 a few months ago so I can't afford to not have my car.

Any more theories?

Thanks!

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post #5 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 06:42 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theterminator93 View Post
A locked up A/C compressor wouldn't prevent the car from starting because the clutch relay is locked out during cranking. First thing you need to do is get the codes read, then we can start pinpointing the problem.
I was under that impression as well. I have a code reader. Gonna go find it and see if I can get any codes pulled.

I'll be back in a bit to update.

Thanks!

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post #6 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Alright, got the codes.

The car wasn't warmed up though so I think it threw 3 of the codes because of that. Those are:

116: Engine coolant temp higher or lower than expected
121: Closed throttle voltage higher or lower than expected
114: Air charge temp sensor higher or lower than expected

The other code is 327:EVP/EPT circuit below minimum voltage
He did say he bumped that sensor a little but it wasn't unplugged or anything.

The car has also been idling really low/rough after it's warmed up, but when you give it a little gas it eventually evens out. But it didn't throw any codes until he was charging the A/C.

The battery is unplugged for the night.

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post #7 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 07:50 PM
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Those codes sound more like voltage being way out of spec. Some wires must have gotten bumped or something, sensors don't typically go haywire like that all at once.

I almost want to say you should check for shorts in the harness. I just cured my electrical problem after nearly 9 months of procrastinating: http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=127963

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post #8 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Well that sounds like fun! lol

What about the no oil pressure? Where's the oil pressure sending unit at?

I just find it really strange that it started throwing codes while recharging the A/C.

Hmm.

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post #9 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 07:56 PM
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I don't know about the SC, but on the 4.6 it's right by the oil filter.

I think it's also possible that the signal wire was grounding out causing the pressure gauge to misread.

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post #10 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 08:26 PM
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That's a weird one, no a/c work should cause that car to not run. Could be a odd coincidence. As commented on by "the terminator", even a compressor lock up wouldn't cause the engine not to start. Smoke the belt, but still start. We see all kinds of weird stuff effecting each other at my work with the European imports but not on the Fords. Good luck.
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post #11 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 08:29 PM
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quote "but the car wouldn't start! It tries, but won't turn over" he didnt say it would crank but not start Hesaid it wouldnt turn over.You have never locked up a AC compressor until it it shredded the belt then you are lucky.My old Explorer's comp locked up and tore the hell out of the shroud trying to get that belt off it.A new clutch and belt and it was golden.

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post #12 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbirdsc14 View Post
That's a weird one, no a/c work should cause that car to not run. Could be a odd coincidence. As commented on by "the terminator", even a compressor lock up wouldn't cause the engine not to start. Smoke the belt, but still start. We see all kinds of weird stuff effecting each other at my work with the European imports but not on the Fords. Good luck.
You know, I love reading mystery novels where there's weird coincidences and twist and turns...but it's totally different when it's my car!

The compressor pulley was turning fine and the car did finally turn over. It would try to crank and then it finally did turn over. But we didn't keep it running because of the oil pressure gauge dropping to zero.

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post #13 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 10:09 PM
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Have you checked the grounds from the battery to the engine mount n the drivers side (obliviously on the engine side of the mount :p)

And check the ground on the passenger side between the engine and chassis
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post #14 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 10:35 PM
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I assume you disconnected the battery ground while doing the work. Clean the post and clamp really well and put the ground back on. For so many gremlins to show up at once tells me that it is something that they would have in common and that is one of the simplest. I am ashamed to say that I replaced a battery and alternator after changing a fuel pump in my GFs JEEP just because I neglected to make the batt neg connection properly after the job was done. It would start and run but ran like crap and eventually took out the battery. This made me think the alt was bad. After spending 4 hours removing it, I had the parts store test it only to find out it was fine. Clean both of your battery posts and clamps and make sure you have good connections.
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post #15 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-23-2010, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RESET View Post
I assume you disconnected the battery ground while doing the work. Clean the post and clamp really well and put the ground back on. For so many gremlins to show up at once tells me that it is something that they would have in common and that is one of the simplest. I am ashamed to say that I replaced a battery and alternator after changing a fuel pump in my GFs JEEP just because I neglected to make the batt neg connection properly after the job was done. It would start and run but ran like crap and eventually took out the battery. This made me think the alt was bad. After spending 4 hours removing it, I had the parts store test it only to find out it was fine. Clean both of your battery posts and clamps and make sure you have good connections.
We'll double check, but the car had to be running to recharge the A/C. We'll check all the grounds tomorrow and make sure everything is connected. Thanks for the suggestion

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post #16 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-24-2010, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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Okay, the ground for the coil pack was loose. Tightened it up, it started right up, runs fine, no codes, but the oil pressure is still at zero so I'm afraid to keep it running for more than a few seconds. I think he's going to see about checking the ground for the oil pressure sending unit and see if it got jiggled loose.

Update: There was a ground that was totally not hooked up on the passenger side motor mount area. Weird this is that he took the SC out to Harbor Freight earlier yesterday and didn't have any problems. That ground has been unhooked since we installed new motor mounts a few months ago.

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post #17 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-24-2010, 12:36 PM
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Check to see if the wire contact on the oil pressure sender is good, i had that issue with my '89 XR7.. driving along, all of a sudden the Idiot light will come on, and the oil pressure gauge would drop.. just tightened up the contact on the wire a little, and all has been good ever since..
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post #18 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-25-2010, 10:26 AM Thread Starter
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Update: did a mechanical gauge test and I do have oil pressure. Pulled a spark plug and it is BLACK. So, changed out 2 of the plugs and did an electrical test to make sure I have spark, and I do. But it still won't turn over. Gonna change out 2 more (or maybe end up changing the rest) to see if it will turn over. It's not throwing any codes anymore, but we can't get it started to warm it up to do a proper test anyway.

Hopefully, changing out the plugs allows it to fire.

Update again: changed the plugs and it still won't fire. Did a fuel pressure test and it's saying I have like 3psi. Off to the store to get a fuel filter, probably needs to be changed anyway. I really hope it's nothing more complicated.

Update again: changed the filter, now have fuel pressure. Yay. But, it STILL won't start. I have spark and fuel. I'm lost.

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post #19 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-25-2010, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, after researching the boards, I've come up with it being either the crank sensor or the ignition control module. I have had some issues with hard starting after the car gets warm. Normally on cold starts, it starts right up. But after I go somewhere (like the store) and then get back in to start it, it starts but low/rough idle and I have to give it some gas to keep from stalling. I don't know if it would have ever stalled b/c I always gave it gas before it did.

Advance has the crank sensor for $20. I think we're going to hope for that because I really need the car back.

Edit: I've never seen an upshift light. Ever. Not even when cranking the car.

Edit: Changed the crank sensor. Still won't start.

Ugh.

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post #20 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-25-2010, 10:42 PM
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I have had some issues with hard starting after the car gets warm. Normally on cold starts, it starts right up. But after I go somewhere (like the store) and then get back in to start it, it starts but low/rough idle and I have to give it some gas to keep from stalling. I don't know if it would have ever stalled b/c I always gave it gas before it did.
My SC been having that issues since the end of the summer of 2008, and has been getting progressively worse each summer (only is a summer car)
I've replaced/swapped out with good known items everything but, MAF sensor, O2 sensors, and ECU. alot of people i've talked to say injectors, but there has been two totally different set of injectors in it.. with the 2nd second being cleaned and checked.. so unless i have two bad set of injectors...

Search for `hot start issue' in this forum..

Check to see if you have spark (inductive timing gun or tachometer will work) Since the ignition is self contained and only gets a signal from a the EEC to tell it what kinda timing/dwell to give the engine..
Then check for fuel pressure.. then See if the injectors are getting a signal to open..
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post #21 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-26-2010, 10:33 AM
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Check the connections on the DIS module. It's located directly above the AC compressor.

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post #22 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-26-2010, 02:25 PM
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Check the connections on the DIS module. It's located directly above the AC compressor.

David
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I doubt it is the module HOWEVER since the weirdness started about the time the AC work was being done, it could be. It is right there where he would have been working to charge ac. Maybe leaned on it too hard.

But if you have spark at the plugs and good fuel pressure, there has to be something else. Original harmonic balancer?

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post #23 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-26-2010, 05:48 PM Thread Starter
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94-95 on the shock tower.

I doubt it is the module HOWEVER since the weirdness started about the time the AC work was being done, it could be. It is right there where he would have been working to charge ac. Maybe leaned on it too hard.

But if you have spark at the plugs and good fuel pressure, there has to be something else. Original harmonic balancer?
BHJ harmonic balancer, about 5 years old. But nothing wobbles.

A master mechanic that works with my BF thinks it may be the barometric pressure sensor (or whatever it's called).

The car started up this morning after sitting all night. But when we shut it off, it wouldn't start again.

We are going to check again for loose grounds.

Any other ideas? I had to drive a Chevy today

Edit: Forgot to mention that my oil pressure gauge isn't reading either. But, we tested it with a mechanical gauge and I do have oil pressure.

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post #24 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-26-2010, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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OMG. We unplugged the barometric pressure sensor, and IT FIRED RIGHT UP. Shut it off and re-started it, fired up again. So, there's my problem!

Thanks to everyone for their ideas!

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post #25 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-26-2010, 09:39 PM
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OMG. We unplugged the barometric pressure sensor, and IT FIRED RIGHT UP. Shut it off and re-started it, fired up again. So, there's my problem!

Thanks to everyone for their ideas!
Wow.

Cool.
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post #26 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-26-2010, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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I know. We were both stumped as well. I'm just glad we got it figured out. It was driving us crazy lol.

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post #27 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-27-2010, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlownSix View Post
OMG. We unplugged the barometric pressure sensor, and IT FIRED RIGHT UP. Shut it off and re-started it, fired up again. So, there's my problem!

Thanks to everyone for their ideas!
In all the years I've been reading these boards I believe that's the first time I heard that one. Anyway I'm glad you guy's got it figured out.

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post #28 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-27-2010, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Weird eh? I give most of the credit to the Master Mechanic that works with my BF. He diagnosed it without seeing or hearing the car, just by my BF's description. That guy has every ASE certification there is to get. I need to bake him a pan of muffins or something

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post #29 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-27-2010, 03:04 PM
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Weird eh? I give most of the credit to the Master Mechanic that works with my BF. He diagnosed it without seeing or hearing the car, just by my BF's description. That guy has every ASE certification there is to get. I need to bake him a pan of muffins or something
Certification don't mean squat. They need to invent one for him.
I'll take some chocolate-chocolate chip muffins.

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post #30 of 46 (permalink) Old 04-27-2010, 04:50 PM
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We unplugged the barometric pressure sensor, and IT FIRED RIGHT UP.
Please Tell me if this is the answer to the starting issue when hot... I was told to try replacing the BAP sensor by someone else..

But i just couldn't see it as being he problem, Since i also tried the one that was in my other car ('89) and it still did it.. But then again, maybe the one out of my '89 is border line good as it is. and the '91 is just a hair bit more fussy.....
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