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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-24-2004, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Crank but no start

There is spark, there is fuel... Next place to check be timing? The two places I'm going to start are crank and cam sensors. Any other leads or thoughts?

And where can I get the special tool to put in the crank or cam sensor (was told it took a special tool to put one of them in - forgot which)

My 'Bird has ran before and now being dumb and won't start. It would crank all day, but it won't start. It's basically a 90 SC engine with ZR Intake, S-Model blower, and 5% OD pulley in case anyone is wondering.

Any thoughts/help is greatly appreciated.

-Andy "Melon"

EDIT: When I was out messing with it earlier, I found a DIS and swapped the two. With the new DIS, when I turn the key I hear the fan kick on. With the other DIS, the fan didn't come on. Not exactly relavant, but thought I'd throw it in.

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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-24-2004, 06:43 PM
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check the wires going to the DIS, I had a similar problem, which ended up to be a bad wire.
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-25-2004, 08:44 AM
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I'd check your ign. module. have it tested.

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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-25-2004, 12:52 PM
 
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Are you getting the Upshift light while you try and start it?

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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-01-2004, 06:22 AM
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Yup, sounds like the crank sensor , easy to do , did mine in 2 hours . just the part cost to much . DW
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-01-2004, 02:22 PM
 
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So what was the result? My SC is doing the same thing. Upshift light on and a constant tone with key on. Cranks like crazy and nothing. I thought it might be the fuel pump but maybe not. I am going out to check at the fuel filter.

I went into the store and came out and it wouldn't fire. Also, I have noticed a bit of pinging under load the last couple of days with hi-octane. Ease off and it's gone.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-02-2004, 12:17 AM
 
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If the "UpShift" light is on while you're cranking, you need to change the crank sensor. Good luck
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-02-2004, 01:04 AM
 
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Thanks. Looking around, it seems to be the rule that the CPS is failing if the upshift light is on. I picked up a Niehoff unit from Napa for $85 and there is nothing to the thing. Ford wanted over $300.

What exactly fails on it? Will just cleaning it fix it? From the looks of it, the pulley needs to come off.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-02-2004, 10:23 AM
 
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Right, to be safe, mark a location on the pully to balancer and take off the 4 small bolts. Do Not take off the big crank bolt and when you turn the crank, only turn it clock wise. You will need 5.5mm tools and the oil filter has to come off. Mine last one was Niehoff as well and no problems. Good luck
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-02-2004, 11:20 AM
 
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Thanks again J. You know, I'm looking at this thing, and I wonder what exactly would fail on it. There doesn't seem to be much to it other than wiring and what appears to be magnets(?). Do you know if anyone has ever just pressure sprayed the area and resolved this?

I managed to get under and pull off the lower plastic shield. The tab holding it in place had broken. There was sand and some grease in the bottom of it and it's greasy in the area from leaking valve covers.

I also drove through a rock slide a couple of weeks ago (it was dark coming around a bend) and wonder if it may have been damaged from that. My rad had to be re-cored and the frame member replaced, among other things.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-02-2004, 12:09 PM
 
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AS I said, I've replaced a couple of them and they both look good, but I don't know how to test them. I know it can get pretty grunggy in there but I would be more concerned about whatever you hit damaging the balancer b/c that would ripple and damage the sensor since there is only 20thou of an inch between them, I use a sliver of paper from a match book cover to align it. Maybe the 2 sensors that I pulled from my cars will work or maybe its only the connector, but I'm not going to try putting them on my car b/c I'm after reliability. The lower cover bolt hole was broken on mine to so I added a big washer to hold it in place. Good luck
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-03-2004, 11:41 PM
 
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There was no damage in the area. I did replace the CPS and no change.

I couldn't locate a 5.5 deep socket, so I found a 7/32 that did the job. I didn't yank the pulley. It was a b1tch, but even if that wasn't it, I don't have to worry about that one for a while.

There was gas at the outlet of the fuel filter, but not much pressure. Time to go bang on the gas tank.

It's parked at work an hour away, and can't do work on the fuel tank where it's at, so it looks like it's tow-time to a shop in Vernon. Know any good ones there?
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-04-2004, 01:45 PM
 
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Are you saying that the "UpShift" light is still on when you're cranking?
If so, it would mean that there is still no signal from it.
There should not be any wet fuel any where, so if the fuel filter is showing wet fuel, replace it, its easier to get to than the pump, and a lot cheaper ([email protected] Canadian Tire). Its to bad you don't have a guage to test the fuel pressure at the rail while you're cranking. If you have a friend turn the key on, while you listen in front of the pass back wheel to see if you can hear the fuel pump come on may help.
Also try cleaning the connections to the DIS or if you know someone that has 1 that you could swap in and retry. I feel your pain, Good luck
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-04-2004, 02:17 PM
 
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Yeah, the Upshift Light is still coming on. If the gap were too much, would it cause this ya think?

Before I tow it anywhere, I'm going to quickly replace the fuel filter. It looks like an original. But I don't get the Upshift light thing still happening.

No, don't know anyone handy with a DIS to check it. I'll let you know what I come up with. Thanks J. I miss my bird.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-04-2004, 04:37 PM
 
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If the gap isn't right you could still get the light. I just put mine the center and it seemed to work ok. The other thing I would check is the wires going ot hte crank sesor.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-04-2004, 10:21 PM
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Also check the IGN relay fuse in the fuse box under the hood.......I once replaced the crank sensor,car still wouldn't start,found the ignition fuse was blown....I should have checked that first.
z

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-05-2004, 12:34 AM
 
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Thanks guys. I'll check it all out again tomorrow. I'll let you know the result.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-05-2004, 12:13 PM
 
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Okay, with the key on; the upshift, check engine, and check gauges lights are on and there is a high pitched constant tone (don't remember if the tone was always there before or not). When cranking, there are no lights displaying.

I hear a click in the rear like a switch coming on. Hard to tell with the tones and the ABS system engaging at the same time.

I haven't had time to check gap. Need to jack the thing back up and remove belts and cover again. Wahoo. Maybe at lunch I'll have time.

Last edited by soop; 04-05-2004 at 12:30 PM.
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 04-06-2004, 04:22 PM
 
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Mine was a fuel pump. Bought a Carter pump and a fuel filter and letting a shop do the pump.

When I took the crank sensor out, the small wire pulled right out of the plastic connector. It was black on the surface of the pick-up, with some fine black shavings accumulated in the slot. The vanes looked completely untouched though.
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