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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-03-2007, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Advice on new exhaust plans and pricing estimate

I was pricing what a complete exhaust upgrade would cost me and its come to about 1000 with the following items
A braincoating port/polish/coating job on the manifolds
The needed dead soft gaskets
New O2 sensors with long leads
New high flow cats
Magnetflow DI/DO 2.5 high flow muff
An exhaust shop running the duals with giving them the items above
and a break in the duals so you can unbolt half the exhaust to make dropping it easier.

Is my math off on that?
Buying from ebay wont save money if im gouged on shipping price. Id rather pay <10 more to buy from SCP and know it will be here asap from a reputable seller. If the price diff is substantial then ebay is a great idea. I will keep my eyes peeled. This is in the planning stages.
I referenced SCP.com for the cats/O2 sensor/muff/gasket estimates. After seeing how restrictive the down pipes/cats and manifolds really are, a new complete set up seems like the next logical choice for performance. Can anyone tell me any more pros and cons about this set up?

I plan on changing to a Mk8 93 drive shaft and 3.27 trac loc as well, I dont want 3.73s. This is my daily and I am working on a solid foundation for more performance. I will be installing lower engine cradle braces soon, and SC "L's" braces behind the rear seat, in addition to my front ST Brace. I already have a good intake tube for my 94 V8 engine so with a new suspension/bushings will that full exhaust get me into the mid 15's? I have noticed my 60ft is much better since replacing every freaking bushing or suspension piece btw.

Or maybe could anyone guess HP increase? I know my NPI heads are restrictive and will change that later or at least thats the goal. Anymore advice about putting together PI port and polish heads plus the full exhaust?

Is it a good combo to shoot for?

I left out other stuff like MAF, and a tune but thats to be decided later or maybe I should forget the PI head and intake swap and upgrade to a built trans/TC set up. Decisions decisions. Dont mean to bore people to death with a long post that could be answered with the search button but Im interested in hearing some feedback.

Spinning pies like wheels.

DD driving my 20 year old project

Now with new ball joints...again

Last edited by Splattered; 10-03-2007 at 11:36 PM. Reason: to make easier to read
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-03-2007, 06:39 PM
 
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Yeah, I was going to say that.

I can't read that. Sorry.

:-D
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-03-2007, 09:18 PM
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Jeez people the guy wants help and all yall can do is make fun of his typing? Dude I wish I could help but I am still trying to figure out my exhaust myself. Although now I am leaning toward the true duals myself. I think after all you do, you should be in the mid 15s. get a tune and who knows maybe lower.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-03-2007, 09:24 PM
 
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You could probly save some money on the cats and muffler on ebay. I don't know how much you are figuring now, but you can get the magnaflow 2.5 di/do in alluminized steel for about 70, and the 2.5 magnaflow high flow cats for 50 a piece. I know it saved me over 100 going this route... hope this helps


btw, magnaflow sounds sweet on these cars
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-04-2007, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splattered View Post
I was pricing what a complete exhaust upgrade would cost me and its come to about 1000 with the following items
A braincoating port/polish/coating job on the manifolds
The needed dead soft gaskets
New O2 sensors with long leads
New high flow cats
Magnetflow DI/DO 2.5 high flow muff
An exhaust shop running the duals with giving them the items above
and a break in the duals so you can unbolt half the exhaust to make dropping it easier.

Is it a good combo to shoot for?
Where to begin.....

Let me help you with you budget realistically...

Braincoating port/polish/coating job on the manifolds....

"The needed dead soft gaskets" your running ported manifolds not headers you really don't need dead soft gaskets... I've been running felpro and ford manifold to head gaskets forever with no problems... this just seems a bit much for manifolds... but thats your call.

Depending on how far back your moving your cats you may or may not even need 4 long lead 02 sensors, you might be better off buying two long lead 02 sensors and two standard 02 sensors and a pair of 02 sensor lead extensions, if you don't need the extensions return them

I have nothing against high flow cats or the magnaflow di/do muffler.... but why 2 1/2?

Sure lots of people on here are running it but unless your running dohc, explorer motor swap, turbo, supercharger, or something of that nature I really don't see the need.... you wont be making enough power to need that big of an exhaust diameter... there is such a thing as too big, if you go too big for the amount of power that you will actually be making your only going to end up robbing yourself of power in the long run, to be honest I really don't see the need for 2 1/2 even with PI heads on an NPI block... you might want to re-evaluate your horse power goals and compair them to the exhaust size chart. I'm running 2 1/4 duals with a magnaflow midmount and two mufflers out back with no problems on NPI heads a PI intake, porting, polishing, and high compression... Later this month I'll be porting my manifolds replacing my upper cats with high flows, and putting on my PI heads and I still wont stray from 2 1/4....

Definately get a break somewhere in that system because it sounds like you have some driveline ambitions ahead of you.

One last thing I recommend though.... stage 8 locking fasteners for the manifolds to heads

Just my $0.02..... hope it helps.

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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-04-2007, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Murder View Post
Sure lots of people on here are running it but unless your running dohc, explorer motor swap, turbo, supercharger, or something of that nature I really don't see the need....

I really don't see the need for 2 1/2 even with PI heads on an NPI block...
Forgive the stray, but doesn't PI heads on an NPI block have a higher compression ratio and therefor more power than an explorer motor, with the explorer motor having the advantage in weight?

I do agree with 2-1/2 being a bit big... I'm looking at 2-1/4 duel with a 4v to bolster torque.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-04-2007, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 95_SilverBird View Post
Forgive the stray, but doesn't PI heads on an NPI block have a higher compression ratio and therefor more power than an explorer motor, with the explorer motor having the advantage in weight?

I do agree with 2-1/2 being a bit big... I'm looking at 2-1/4 duel with a 4v to bolster torque.

Simply put yes PI heads do give more power from higher compression but unless your pushing 250-300 HP on a 281 you really don't need 2 1/2" duals, 2 1/4" is fine.

-1996 Pearl White Thunderbird 4.6 Sport 4v with many mods:
Current Best: 13.583 @ 103.74 10/2014.
227hp/241tq measured on calibrated mustang dyno, tested at full vehicle simulation with inertia enabled, no number skewing.
-2001 White Ford F-250 Super Duty 6.8 V10, 4-door, 4x4, Limo Tint, BFG KO2's, Bilstein 7100 Remote Reservoir Race Bypass Shocks, 6" Spring lift, Kenwood Double Din, K&N Intake, FlowMaster Exhaust
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-04-2007, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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ok just got the net back as of 10 minutes ago. Ok the cat positions Im unsure where they will be moved back to the point of needed long leads, and I didnt realize that you needed 4 of them. Do 2 go into the manifold and 2 go in to the cats?
And Ill go with your recommendation on gaskets. The 2.5 pipe size I was thinking about if I ever got to putting a built short block with p/p PI heads and intake with some mild bolt ons and a tune, the exhaust would be a good match.

I really dont ever want to go much higher than 320 HP/350 TQ or so in the end of the build up. I will remember the stage 8 locking fasteners for the manifolds, do you have a recommendation in where I should get them?

I stress this is all in the planning stage and Im trying to plan ahead. I hate the thought of replacing something Ive replaced before, even though Im going to end up doing that to something. I dont want to replace the exhaust again lol thats beyond my budget.

Spinning pies like wheels.

DD driving my 20 year old project

Now with new ball joints...again
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-04-2007, 05:38 PM
 
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I know 2.5 may not be necessary on a stock 4.6, but I have bigger plans in the future, and it had to be done, so I went with 2.5 cause the cost was the same.
I agree with the "only do it once" theory
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-04-2007, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splattered View Post
ok just got the net back as of 10 minutes ago. Ok the cat positions Im unsure where they will be moved back to the point of needed long leads, and I didnt realize that you needed 4 of them. Do 2 go into the manifold and 2 go in to the cats?
And Ill go with your recommendation on gaskets. The 2.5 pipe size I was thinking about if I ever got to putting a built short block with p/p PI heads and intake with some mild bolt ons and a tune, the exhaust would be a good match.

I really dont ever want to go much higher than 320 HP/350 TQ or so in the end of the build up. I will remember the stage 8 locking fasteners for the manifolds, do you have a recommendation in where I should get them?

I stress this is all in the planning stage and Im trying to plan ahead. I hate the thought of replacing something Ive replaced before, even though Im going to end up doing that to something. I dont want to replace the exhaust again lol thats beyond my budget.

two of them go before the cats, two of them go after... if my memory serves correctly.... the only thing going into the manifolds is the egr tube on the passenger side manifold... niether go into the cat itself

I recommend summitracing.com for the stage 8 locking fasteners.... they're called "4.6/5.4 ford locking header bolts by stage8" or so says my magazine IIRC they were $54.95 worth every penny you'll never have to touch them again.

-1996 Pearl White Thunderbird 4.6 Sport 4v with many mods:
Current Best: 13.583 @ 103.74 10/2014.
227hp/241tq measured on calibrated mustang dyno, tested at full vehicle simulation with inertia enabled, no number skewing.
-2001 White Ford F-250 Super Duty 6.8 V10, 4-door, 4x4, Limo Tint, BFG KO2's, Bilstein 7100 Remote Reservoir Race Bypass Shocks, 6" Spring lift, Kenwood Double Din, K&N Intake, FlowMaster Exhaust
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-2005 White GMC Sierra 3500 6.6 Duramax, Dually, 4-door, 4x4, Limo Tint, BFG Commercial T/A's, Rancho RS9000XL Shocks, Kenwood Double Din, K&N Intake, Banks Monster Exhaust
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-04-2007, 08:43 PM
 
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Chris you are correct, the front ones go on the downtubes right before the cats
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-05-2007, 01:21 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for the info I will get stage 8's then, ok but one question I have is if I go 2.25 inch pipes would they be good enough when I get around 315 hp? I dont think Ill be over that number for a long time, longer than I could see into the future so it might as well be the limit of the build in realistic terms.

Spinning pies like wheels.

DD driving my 20 year old project

Now with new ball joints...again
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-05-2007, 04:31 AM
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Go 2.5's. I paid $400 for the same pipe work with the break at the rear of the di/do. Here is a photo link:

http://s204.photobucket.com/albums/b...t=a7b3f7c9.pbw

3.27's are a waste of money. My son's '97 had them and it wasn't close to my 5.0 stock with 3.73's. 70mph cruise is only 2200 with 3.73's. Our heavy cars need gear. You won't be sorry.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-05-2007, 11:25 AM
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how bout settle for something in between like 3.55s?
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-05-2007, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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bradone your exhaust looks great but you have a 5.0 and I have a 4.6. 3.27s arent a big waste but the jump to 3.73 is a risk to my stock 4r70w. The trans can take the 3.73s in theory but its not meant for it. I would want to drop in a built trans/TC along with 3.73s. I need a trac lok pumpkin anyway. I believe Johnny L. was pointing out how vibration sent through the tail shaft even with a MK8 driveshaft is going to kill the trans eventually. I have a 93 MK8 drive shaft and Im not buying a $400 drive shaft just so I can run 3.73s. Hence the upgrade and reliability of 3.27s trac lok and not to mention no one really is paying much for them. 3.73s are the goal but a long ways off, I want the bullet proof trans/TC combo first. Ok this isnt exhaust lol. But im trying to plan at least lol these cars are like big puzzles you have to solve without breaking the drive line. I love puzzles though. Well I still have the problem of if I go with 2.25 how high up the power totem pole will it be restrictive? If its a small loss at above 300 then thats good with me, I dont need to redo it to gain 10 hp to get 310 hp. Just giving a hypothetical example.

Im not sure about 3.55s how many people use that? I would think anything above 3.27s is going to kill your trans. Remember a stock 4r70w cant take anything. Id be happy with 3.55s too but since few people here have it its less feedback on the conversion procedure, i know 3.55s can rock a mustang but this isnt a mustang. Maybe someone can enlighten me with the gear suggestion.

Spinning pies like wheels.

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Now with new ball joints...again
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-05-2007, 10:33 PM
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go with the 2.5"....and 3.73's

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-06-2007, 01:24 AM
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The Mercury Marauder and Mustang Mach 1's have 3.55's stock with the 4R70W trans. Just thought I’d throw that in here.

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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-06-2007, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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yeah but their tc/trans doesnt suck hard like my weak 94 stock 4r70w, the thing cant take any punishment. And being in AZ it will blow up sooner or later, 3.27s is the highest im going with this trans. A built trans I will get 3.73s.

Spinning pies like wheels.

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Now with new ball joints...again
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 10-06-2007, 11:40 AM
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Just learn yourself some throttle control and the tranny will be fine. Go with the 3.73's

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