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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
 
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Replacing Cats....

with a high flow cat, what brands? and are they already setup for the front 02 or is something that has to be modded into a pipe, if any body has any pics that would be sweet, I have a 0420 code and the more I read it sounds like I need to start there.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-29-2009, 09:27 PM
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I had Magnaflows on my non stock exhaust 91 and liked them. Mine had to be welded on as I believe most would. There are 3 on the stock setup and I would have to believe the code is from one of the front cats failing as the rear O2 sensors are before the back cat. If your O2 is mounted in the cat you could have a bung welded on to the pipe when the cat is replaced or a direct fit cat should have it in the same place. If not in the cat itself there will be 2 in front of the cats and 2 behind them welded in the pipes. It is one of the rear sensors giving you the code.

You could look into this complete replacement Cat setup at Summit #MPE-23343, if you need to stay 50 state legal. It can probably be found cheaper somewhere else. Plus there are some other offerings out there.

Are you sure its the Cats though. I pulled the same code on my buddies F150 and we replaced the rear O2 sensors. Code never came back. I would look into this first as it is the cheaper solution. If you are a higher mileage vehicle it may be the cats.

The code is P0420 Downstream Oxygen sensor reporting low catalyst efficiency on Bank 1 (Rear Bank). P0430 would be bank 2 (drivers side).

If you can try swapping the rear sensors from left to right (will be a pain) and clear the code. If P0420 comes up again its the cat. If P0430 comes up its the sensor. In my opinion if you have to replace an O2 sensor replace them in pairs both fronts or rears at the same time. Same with the Cats (they are a little over $200 each on summit) if 1 is bad replace both fronts. This is just my opinion

I would look into something custom if you have to spend the money depending on emissions restrictions in WV.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 06:54 AM
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I got a bolt on high flow magnaflow kit from performance peddler for like $250

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 07:14 AM Thread Starter
 
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I got a bolt on high flow magnaflow kit from performance peddler for like $250
You don't happen to have the part # do ya, I've bought a bunch of stuff from PP, best prices on Flowmasters that I've found, good peoples. Ol, my car has 80,700 miles on it, pretty low.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 11:41 AM
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It will be the same part number I listed from Summit. Magnaflow P/N 23343 it is a complete bolt in replacment front section of exhaust.

First time I've been on that site though lots of good stuff. It is in my bookmarks now. They say to make an offer and they will give you their lowest price. It is adverstised at $372 and change but I would offer them the $250 or lower and see what they come back with. Good luck.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gcline View Post
I got a bolt on high flow magnaflow kit from performance peddler for like $250
I got the same one, 1/4" bigger pipes and better cats. I thought it was a good deal. I got mine somewhere else i think for just a little cheaper i cant remeber where though, sorry.

I also agree that you should replace the O2 sensors too,
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
 
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Are the Mag Cats in that kit better then stock? They don't say they are anything special
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 01-30-2009, 09:02 PM
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Well, your right but i would say 3 things. 1, The cats are new and will flow better than older cats with 1000s of miles on them. 2 the are magnaflow cats are magnaflow and they are assumed to be "performance" parts. and 3. They are 1/4" inch bigger and are shorter allowing for better flow than the stock.

Keep in mind that this isnt a huge performance upgrade but there is a little gain. Hope this helps.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-01-2009, 06:38 AM
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I'm thinking of some headers and a high flow cat in place of the 3rd cat. Anybody know how much performance difference there will be?
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-01-2009, 08:59 PM
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I'm thinking of some headers and a high flow cat in place of the 3rd cat. Anybody know how much performance difference there will be?
Not much.

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 02:59 AM
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Originally Posted by LX-V8-UK View Post
I'm thinking of some headers and a high flow cat in place of the 3rd cat. Anybody know how much performance difference there will be?
why even have the third cat just do dual with 2 cats and headers and call it a day.

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 06:18 PM
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why even have the third cat just do dual with 2 cats and headers and call it a day.
Because some people actually care about the environment and decide to keep their oxidizing cat to reduce emissions.

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 07:29 PM
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Because some people actually care about the environment and decide to keep their oxidizing cat to reduce emissions.
All 3 cats are functionally equivalent, meaning they are all 3-way. Two primary cats is enough to keep the environment clean if the engine is running properly. The third cat is extra insurance for the environment because of the typical car owner who is negligent in regards to maintanence which destroys the first two cats.

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 08:09 PM
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Because some people actually care about the environment and decide to keep their oxidizing cat to reduce emissions.
then why do most typical cars have 2 cats??? the 3rd cat is a waste as mentioned by master with simple up keep. no to mention you could get cats that do a better job then the stock ones and have 2 of them so it would all be equal.

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-02-2009, 10:59 PM
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then why do most typical cars have 2 cats??? the 3rd cat is a waste as mentioned by master with simple up keep. no to mention you could get cats that do a better job then the stock ones and have 2 of them so it would all be equal.
Master486 is correct about the 3 cats all being 3 way cats, but the 3rd cat was put on by ford to further reduce tail pipe emissions for this vehicle to make it exceed the 50 state emissions qualifications, your state (cali) is especially strict about their emissions standards.

If I lived in cali I would bolt on an aftermarket cat back system and be done with it because of all of the emissions bull crap out there.

Yes there are cats out there that can do a better job than the stock ones, yes there are cars out there with 2 cats from the factory, but most 4.6 liter fords came with 4 cats (mustangs, town cars, crown vics, etc.), the reason the thunderbird has 3 cats instead of 4 was more than likely to make the routing around the gas tank that much cheaper and easier.

The third cat is a three way oxidizing cat as I mentioned before and the front two are the primary cats (also three way) which legally in all states but cali may be replaced with 2 way cats if replacement is required (federal minimum mileage for replacement is 50k for 95 and older, 80k for 96 and higher), the sole purpose of the additional cat was to further the reduction of HC's and CO's from the tail pipe emissions.

Do what you want with your car. I feel that the magnaflow 3 piece set up is a great solution to the expensive ford replacement alternative and for most it flows above and beyond their needs.

Modify your car in whatever way you like but be prepared for any and all legal ramifications.

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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-03-2009, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Murder View Post
Master486 is correct about the 3 cats all being 3 way cats, but the 3rd cat was put on by ford to further reduce tail pipe emissions for this vehicle to make it exceed the 50 state emissions qualifications, your state (cali) is especially strict about their emissions standards.

If I lived in cali I would bolt on an aftermarket cat back system and be done with it because of all of the emissions bull crap out there.

Yes there are cats out there that can do a better job than the stock ones, yes there are cars out there with 2 cats from the factory, but most 4.6 liter fords came with 4 cats (mustangs, town cars, crown vics, etc.), the reason the thunderbird has 3 cats instead of 4 was more than likely to make the routing around the gas tank that much cheaper and easier.

The third cat is a three way oxidizing cat as I mentioned before and the front two are the primary cats (also three way) which legally in all states but cali may be replaced with 2 way cats if replacement is required (federal minimum mileage for replacement is 50k for 95 and older, 80k for 96 and higher), the sole purpose of the additional cat was to further the reduction of HC's and CO's from the tail pipe emissions.

Do what you want with your car. I feel that the magnaflow 3 piece set up is a great solution to the expensive ford replacement alternative and for most it flows above and beyond their needs.

Modify your car in whatever way you like but be prepared for any and all legal ramifications.
well said.

yeah i realize there could possibly be fix it tickets. but i went to a test only facility and the guy didn't pop the hood or even look under my car and he heard it was modded i think most people aren't going to care as long as the emissions out the back or decent.

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-10-2009, 10:46 PM
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http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=118983

This guy has the same cat set-up i was talking about earlier if you are still interested, im sure he would make you a deal.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-17-2009, 11:04 AM
 
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I just put magnaflow cats on and they sound awesome! gives a much deeper sound to the 3.8 but a pain in the @$$. had to weld the downstream O2 on the drivers side in another place because it pointed directly into the tranny. good buy though. $410 on summit apposed to $580 for stock at auto parts store by me.
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-20-2009, 06:20 PM
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I put a Dynomax Super Turbo cat-back system on. Originally I had no resonator or rear silencers but it feels like re-introducing a little back-pressure has given the car some torque back. Plus it now has that 'definately a V8 but not too loud' sound... if you get me.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-20-2009, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by LX-V8-UK View Post
I put a Dynomax Super Turbo cat-back system on. Originally I had no resonator or rear silencers but it feels like re-introducing a little back-pressure has given the car some torque back. Plus it now has that 'definately a V8 but not too loud' sound... if you get me.
What are the emissions standards like in England?

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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2009, 04:23 AM
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Well if your car is over three years old, it is subject to a yearly roadworthiness test, emissions test is part of that exam. But most American car owners get through them OK, so it can't be too bad.
The funniest thing is, yearly tax is now calculated on your car's CO2 emissions rating - so for example a UK model Jeep would be taxed at about 400 pounds due to it's high CO2 band.... but American imports not sold in the UK (e.g. Mustang, Ram etc) are not assigned a CO2 band so are charged using the old system at roughly 1/4 of the price. So a Ford people carrier might end up costing more to tax than a 7-litre El Dorado!
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2009, 04:36 AM
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Well if your car is over three years old, it is subject to a yearly roadworthiness test, emissions test is part of that exam. But most American car owners get through them OK, so it can't be too bad.
The funniest thing is, yearly tax is now calculated on your car's CO2 emissions rating - so for example a UK model Jeep would be taxed at about 400 pounds due to it's high CO2 band.... but American imports not sold in the UK (e.g. Mustang, Ram etc) are not assigned a CO2 band so are charged using the old system at roughly 1/4 of the price. So a Ford people carrier might end up costing more to tax than a 7-litre El Dorado!
Thats pretty interesting. I'm not up on my pounds to dollars conversion. But it surely says something about the insanity of taxes and automobiles...

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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 02-21-2009, 05:40 AM
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Thats pretty interesting. I'm not up on my pounds to dollars conversion. But it surely says something about the insanity of taxes and automobiles...
At a rough guess, 700 dollars? And of course it does not take mileage into account, so how can it provide an accurate way of taxing emissions. Madness I tell you!
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