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post #1 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-07-2009, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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dual exhaust question....

Alright, I have a 4.6 and I want duals, just not ready to spend much, I just did the rear and front suspensions, ball joints, bushings,etc... so I dont have a lot of money.

I know most people say just remove the third catalytic but I live in NJ so I still wanna pass the emission test. would removing the 3rd cat be still able to pass the test or would i need to add another cat on each dual pipe? something like this?
part# EXH93271 from napaonline.com, link might not work.. sorry

and is this really a dual pipe? #359760
from autozone

i would finish the system with glass packs to give it some sound..


I dont know much about exhausts so any pointers would be good..
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post #2 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 12:17 AM
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Well, if your first 2 cats are still good - you should pass the sniffer test. But with only 2 out of 3 cats, if they do a Visual inspection you will Fail.

When I did Dual exhaust .. years back, I had a Dual in / Out 3rd cat insalled and dual pipes ran back - passed smog here in Cali, both on the test and Visual.
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post #3 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 02:01 AM
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I hollowed out my 3rd cat.

I suppose you could run 4 cats?

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post #4 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 06:41 AM
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Ok, here's my pointer/opinion. If you can't afford to do it right. Don't mess with it. Period.

The link below is the best place to get true dual 2.5" mandrel bent pipes for a MN12 and they're not that expensive.
This exhaust system comes with Magnaflow high-flow cats that should be more than sufficient to get you past emissions testing and also includes an x-pipe. Several of us on here have bought this system.
It's worth what they're asking and it's worth the wait.
If you have to wait to save the money for this system then so be it; don't half-ass your system in the meantime. The only other things you'll need to buy with this system is the mufflers and of course pay someone to put it on the car.

I hope you find this info useful.

http://www.mandrelexhaustsystems.com...ird/Categories

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post #5 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 07:19 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
Ok, here's my pointer/opinion. If you can't afford to do it right. Don't mess with it. Period.

The link below is the best place to get true dual 2.5" mandrel bent pipes for a MN12 and they're not that expensive.
This exhaust system comes with Magnaflow high-flow cats that should be more than sufficient to get you past emissions testing and also includes an x-pipe. Several of us on here have bought this system.
It's worth what they're asking and it's worth the wait.
If you have to wait to save the money for this system then so be it; don't half-ass your system in the meantime. The only other things you'll need to buy with this system is the mufflers and of course pay someone to put it on the car.

I hope you find this info useful.

http://www.mandrelexhaustsystems.com...ird/Categories
what exactly is the purpose of the X pipe, or H pipe, which would be better for what reason, and what if you simply went dual, with no X or H pipe?

my dads truck is like that, two totally separate exhaust pipes. 7.4L 454.
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post #6 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 07:59 AM
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[QUOTE=BigJohnny;1238216]what exactly is the purpose of the X pipe, or H pipe, which would be better for what reason, and what if you simply went dual, with no X or H pipe?

heard of search?

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post #7 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 09:10 AM
 
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ya I've heard of search, it also doesn't allow searching of a single character, I.E. X.

also the question is related to the thread, it might be beneficial to have the answer to the question in this thread.


But thank you, your replay has most certainly added to this thread, without it, others may never know the search button exists, I'm glad you were able to bring such top-notch information to this thread.

I didn't see a single thread touching on why X-pipe H-pipe or otherwise is important, so since your such a god with the search button, perhaps you searched before making your smartass remark, to determine weather or not there is a thread which explains the importance of those parts? or maybe you've seen one before which I didn't turn up in a search, in either case your reply was just a means for you to be a smartass, and has contributed nothing.

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post #8 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 09:22 AM
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from what i have heard it is supposed to improve sound and torque. I don't know how.
post #9 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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That is just perfect! I did not know they did mandrel bent pipes for the Thunderbird, I guess I did not look hard enough. I had asked a local muffler shop and they were charging me a lot more then that for making custom pipes for my car. Thanks Trunk Monkey.


oh and for the x pipe guys...

http://www.dtmpower.net/forum/e46-m3...se-x-pipe.html

not from this website but hope it helps...
here is another link too

http://www.advanceautoparts.com/engl...20011101xp.asp
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post #10 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohnny View Post
ya I've heard of search, it also doesn't allow searching of a single character, I.E. X.

also the question is related to the thread, it might be beneficial to have the answer to the question in this thread.


But thank you, your replay has most certainly added to this thread, without it, others may never know the search button exists, I'm glad you were able to bring such top-notch information to this thread.

I didn't see a single thread touching on why X-pipe H-pipe or otherwise is important, so since your such a god with the search button, perhaps you searched before making your smartass remark, to determine weather or not there is a thread which explains the importance of those parts? or maybe you've seen one before which I didn't turn up in a search, in either case your reply was just a means for you to be a smartass, and has contributed nothing.
Some people are so quick to get lippy about silly things...

I would have personally tried "H-pipe" or "X-pipe"

H pipes are more for creating low end torque, X pipes are more for creating top end horse power. The exact difference in numbers and why they do this I'm not entirely sure. Sound wise X-pipes make a much smoother hum out of the exhaust and H pipes are more raspy and burbley and accentuate the big cam sound of our motors.

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post #11 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 09:16 PM
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[QUOTE=Stryker;1238222]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohnny View Post
what exactly is the purpose of the X pipe, or H pipe, which would be better for what reason, and what if you simply went dual, with no X or H pipe?

heard of search?
Apparently, you have LOTS of time on your hands!! Ever try searching for something on these forums? Searching usually brings back so many results that it takes FOREVER to go through them all, and half of the results are in no way related to the subject you're searching for! I'm laid-off and out of work right now, and I don't even have time to search these forums for info I need; I find it FAR easier just to ask and take the chance I'm going to get flamed for not having searched the threads first!!

If someone feels that somebody who starts a thread should've searched BEFORE posting and gets irritated by that, then why do you go through the trouble of responding to them?!! Just ignore the thread if it bothers you!

I'm not trying to be a jerk or an a**hole to anyone, but jeez - people just need to chill-out and be polite!

O.K., I've said my peace! Feel free to flame me!

Dennis

Last edited by dmw_4814; 08-08-2009 at 09:30 PM.
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post #12 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 09:25 PM
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^^Okay, I'll play the flame game....It's supposed to be "peace", not "piece". As in, I've said my PEACE.





















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post #13 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 09:32 PM
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^^Okay, I'll play the flame game....It's supposed to be "peace", not "piece". As in, I've said my PEACE.
What are you talking about?!! That's what I said!!

Just kidding - I just edited it! You're right!

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post #14 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 09:52 PM
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Ok Dennis,

There are other search options besides these forums that return excellent results with the most basic search terms and a little bit of research. My biggest complaint (which Stryker and I share) is that most people are just to damn stupid or to damn lazy to do any research for themselves. Whether it's more likely the latter, the former or a combination of the two is up for discussion.
So many people today expect to be spoon fed the answers to their questions without having to make any effort whatsoever to find the answer(s) themselves.

A simple "H-Pipe X-Pipe" search typed into Google returned the following excellent explanation from Carcraft - read the excerpt below and if it's not to much trouble click the link and read the entire article.

I found this answer in less than two minutes with a minimal amount of effort. If I can do it. So can you, BigJohnny or anyone else!

Quote:
For any performance exhaust system, some type of crossover connecting the two sides of a dual exhaust system is important because it acts to balance the two banks of the engine. The common H-style crossover is good at balancing sound pulses between the two halves, but does little to promote scavenging because the exhaust gases tend to follow the path of least resistance, which is straight through each pipe rather than taking the 90-degree turn through the H-pipe into the other half of the system. In an X-pipe system, however, where the two sides of the system intersect, the gasses have no choice but to intermingle as they pass through the junction. This promotes improved scavenging effects by smoothing out uneven exhaust pulses from the engine’s firing order. It also helps quiet down the exhaust, resulting in a mellower, less raspy tone. According to Magnaflow, the faster acceleration of the gasses through an X-pipe causes them to flow in a linear fashion parallel to the walls of the tubing rather than tumbling. This “laminar” flowing gas is much quieter than tumbling gas, resulting in an exhaust tone up to 8 decibels quieter than a traditional H-pipe.

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post #15 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 09:58 PM
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Yes, Trunk Monkey, you're right - there ARE other areas in which to search than these forums here. I just never think about them because I can usually find ALL the info I need right here!

But, you are absolutely right!

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post #16 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-08-2009, 10:19 PM
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Also, you can use the "site:forums.tccoa.com" operator with your search term(s) in Google to search the site. Much faster, no 20 second wait time, no character limitations, and much more accurate results using the direct quote search method.

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post #17 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
Ok Dennis,

There are other search options besides these forums that return excellent results with the most basic search terms and a little bit of research. My biggest complaint (which Stryker and I share) is that most people are just to damn stupid or to damn lazy to do any research for themselves. Whether it's more likely the latter, the former or a combination of the two is up for discussion.
So many people today expect to be spoon fed the answers to their questions without having to make any effort whatsoever to find the answer(s) themselves.

A simple "H-Pipe X-Pipe" search typed into Google returned the following excellent explanation from Carcraft - read the excerpt below and if it's not to much trouble click the link and read the entire article.

I found this answer in less than two minutes with a minimal amount of effort. If I can do it. So can you, BigJohnny or anyone else!



Exactly, thank you for clearing this up. Thats what i did when i needed to know which way to go on my exhaust. I for one do not need to be spoon fed like the OP or he would have done something similar.

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post #18 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 11:39 PM
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Exactly, thank you for clearing this up. Thats what i did when i needed to know which way to go on my exhaust. I for one do not need to be spoon fed like the OP or he would have done something similar.
Is this thread about dual exhausts or people not searching for info before they ask questions?!!

Dennis
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post #19 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-09-2009, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Trunk Monkey View Post
Ok Dennis,

There are other search options besides these forums that return excellent results with the most basic search terms and a little bit of research. My biggest complaint (which Stryker and I share) is that most people are just to damn stupid or to damn lazy to do any research for themselves. Whether it's more likely the latter, the former or a combination of the two is up for discussion.
So many people today expect to be spoon fed the answers to their questions without having to make any effort whatsoever to find the answer(s) themselves.

A simple "H-Pipe X-Pipe" search typed into Google returned the following excellent explanation from Carcraft - read the excerpt below and if it's not to much trouble click the link and read the entire article.

I found this answer in less than two minutes with a minimal amount of effort. If I can do it. So can you, BigJohnny or anyone else!



thats fricken funny right there. i agree 100%

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post #20 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 06:59 AM
 
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well, since google exists I guess we don't need this or any other forum since we can all just search and find what we need.

but if we didn't have this or other forums, then google would prove to be useless, except for articles posted on actual websites.

So all this started because I asked a question relating to the thread, which in turn would enhance the thread with more information, and allow someone who found this thread by whatever means to have all of the info contained in one place.

because of this question, which may be an annoyance to answer but contains relevant info, someone comes in and spouts off to "search", which in turn adds nothing to the thread and brings the whole relevance of the thread down because it has turned into a bloody flame war about searching, and has turned away totally from the original topic of the thread.

the simple words "heard of search" have made this thread go way off topic, and contributed almost no good info to return to others who do search.... what they will find, is a bunch of people arguing about not searching, which discourages others from searching because all they can find is a bunch of people arguing about searching, and hence, they go and ask their question and get told to search........
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post #21 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 11:15 AM
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well, since google exists I guess we don't need this or any other forum since we can all just search and find what we need.

but if we didn't have this or other forums, then google would prove to be useless, except for articles posted on actual websites.

So all this started because I asked a question relating to the thread, which in turn would enhance the thread with more information, and allow someone who found this thread by whatever means to have all of the info contained in one place.

because of this question, which may be an annoyance to answer but contains relevant info, someone comes in and spouts off to "search", which in turn adds nothing to the thread and brings the whole relevance of the thread down because it has turned into a bloody flame war about searching, and has turned away totally from the original topic of the thread.

the simple words "heard of search" have made this thread go way off topic, and contributed almost no good info to return to others who do search.... what they will find, is a bunch of people arguing about not searching, which discourages others from searching because all they can find is a bunch of people arguing about searching, and hence, they go and ask their question and get told to search........
x100!!!!

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post #22 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:43 PM
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well, since google exists I guess we don't need this or any other forum since we can all just search and find what we need.
Much more true than I'd like to admit. This forum has been around in some form for over a decade, and whether or not you feel like looking for it, the answer to pretty much any question is out there.

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but if we didn't have this or other forums, then google would prove to be useless, except for articles posted on actual websites.
See theterminator93's post above. It makes things much, much easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohnny View Post
So all this started because I asked a question relating to the thread, which in turn would enhance the thread with more information, and allow someone who found this thread by whatever means to have all of the info contained in one place.

because of this question, which may be an annoyance to answer but contains relevant info, someone comes in and spouts off to "search", which in turn adds nothing to the thread and brings the whole relevance of the thread down because it has turned into a bloody flame war about searching, and has turned away totally from the original topic of the thread.

the simple words "heard of search" have made this thread go way off topic, and contributed almost no good info to return to others who do search.... what they will find, is a bunch of people arguing about not searching, which discourages others from searching because all they can find is a bunch of people arguing about searching, and hence, they go and ask their question and get told to search........
I think you're missing the point. It wasn't the "go search" comments that took this thread off-topic, it was the "what does an X-/H-pipe do?" question that could've been answered by...dun dun dun, search! If, instead of getting in a huff about being told to search, you had simply taken his advice and looked for yourself, we might be talking about the sound you get from the Mandrel Exhaust Systems setup, or what mufflers sound best with that setup, not how you need to defend your right to be lazy.

Also, the discussion of crossover pipes really adds very little to the discussion. The OP of the thread even posted two links to answer your question. That wasn't the point of this thread, even if that's what you wanted it to be. It even looks like he may have used Google to find the information he was looking for.

On the other hand, this thread probably could've been avoided by searching, but look at the OP's postcount. Look at yours. Who should know how to search by now?

And to make sure this post isn't useless; as far as I know, NJ does not really care what you do with your exhaust so long as you can pass the sniffer test, and are MIL-free. As opposed to Cali, where anything other than stock means bust. They might take a look under there if they hear it's a hot-rodded exhaust, but if they see cats and you pass the sniffer, they shouldn't give you a problem. If you're that worried about it, just keep your original pipes and bolt them back on when you go in for testing. NJ emissions testing is only once every 4 years, so having to bolt on your OEM setup once every 4 years is a small price to pay for having a kick-ass exhaust.

Last edited by Downbylaw; 08-10-2009 at 01:54 PM.
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post #23 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 01:59 PM
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I think you're missing the point. It wasn't the "go search" comments that took this thread off-topic, it was the "what does an X-/H-pipe do?" question that could've been answered by...dun dun dun, search! If, instead of getting in a huff about being told to search, you had simply taken his advice and looked for yourself, we might be talking about the sound you get from the Mandrel Exhaust Systems setup, or what mufflers sound best with that setup, not how you need to defend your right to be lazy.

Also, the discussion of crossover pipes really adds very little to the discussion. The OP of the thread even posted two links to answer your question. That wasn't the point of this thread, even if that's what you wanted it to be. It even looks like he may have used Google to find the information he was looking for.

On the other hand, this thread probably could've been avoided by searching, but look at the OP's postcount. Look at yours. Who should know how to search by now?
No, it was EXACTLY the "go search" posts that took this forum off topic!! This is a forum that is mainly (supposed) to be about MN12 Thunderbirds and Cougars. A forum, by definition, is a place where people turn to to ask questions and find info about things, in this case MN12 Thunderbirds and Cougars. If someone reads someone else's thread where a question has been asked and that person feels the poster should've made more effort to search for the info required before posting the thread, THEN IGNORE THE FREAKIN' THREAD!! Why does someone feel compelled to be rude and expend the effort to respond by saying, "Ever heard of search"?!! If you're going to put forth the effort to type anything, then just type some info about what the poster is asking about!! Don't belittle someone in public and make them feel like an idiot and like they're unwelcome here!

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post #24 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dmw_4814 View Post
If you're going to put forth the effort to type anything, then just type some info about what the poster is asking about!! Don't belittle someone in public and make them feel like an idiot and like they're unwelcome here!

Dennis
As a matter of fact, I did post info on what the poster is talking about. A better person would pass up the opportunity to point out that throughout this entire thread, you've failed to toss up one piece of information related to the OP's question, but I'm not so righteous.

For your information, ignoring the thread does nothing to better the community. That's the goal, not making people feel unwelcome. We all love our cars (okay, mostly), and that's why we're here. That's not up for debate. The fact is, every time someone creates a new thread instead of searching, they're making it harder for everyone else to do their own research. If you've tried searching for anything on here recently, you probably know you have to sift through 20 threads of pure garbage to find the one thread that has decent information. By creating that new thread, you've now piled more garbage on top of the heaping mountain of "OMG LIEK WAT IS TEH J-MOD" threads. If you really have genuinely searched and can't find anything, simply use the "Hey, I tried searching" disclaimer. Unless it's obvious you're lying, people are going to help. Worst-case scenario is that someone gives you some more search tips. Best-case is that you get all the info you wanted and more.

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you, because A) by virtue of the fact we frequent the same forums, we're more alike than we realize, and B) arguing on the internet is retarded. All I want is for people to stop being lazy. We're all adults.
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post #25 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Downbylaw View Post
As a matter of fact, I did post info on what the poster is talking about. A better person would pass up the opportunity to point out that throughout this entire thread, you've failed to toss up one piece of information related to the OP's question, but I'm not so righteous.

For your information, ignoring the thread does nothing to better the community. That's the goal, not making people feel unwelcome. We all love our cars (okay, mostly), and that's why we're here. That's not up for debate. The fact is, every time someone creates a new thread instead of searching, they're making it harder for everyone else to do their own research. If you've tried searching for anything on here recently, you probably know you have to sift through 20 threads of pure garbage to find the one thread that has decent information. By creating that new thread, you've now piled more garbage on top of the heaping mountain of "OMG LIEK WAT IS TEH J-MOD" threads. If you really have genuinely searched and can't find anything, simply use the "Hey, I tried searching" disclaimer. Unless it's obvious you're lying, people are going to help. Worst-case scenario is that someone gives you some more search tips. Best-case is that you get all the info you wanted and more.

I don't want to get into a pissing match with you, because A) by virtue of the fact we frequent the same forums, we're more alike than we realize, and B) arguing on the internet is retarded. All I want is for people to stop being lazy. We're all adults.
As much as it may surprise you, I agree with most everything in your post that I've quoted, and I want you to know that my comments were NOT directed at you specifically (I did see you offered some useful info to the OP) - in fact, not at anyone specifically!

My problem is with people just saying, "Ever heard of search?" without contributing any useful info to the thread because A) it's not constructive B) it just makes people feel like idiots and C) it clutters-up the forum when you ARE trying to search first before asking!

I search for things on here a lot and it almost always brings up 250 hits spread over 5 pages - my wife will leave me if I waste time reading through each and every result that comes up each time I search (she's already irritated at me for the time and money I spend on my Thunderbird)!!

Since we all do frequent the same forum and ARE probably more alike than we all realize, let's just try to help each other out!

O.K., I'll shut the hell up now!

Dennis
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post #26 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 03:56 PM
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My problem is with people just saying, "Ever heard of search?" without contributing any useful info to the thread because A) it's not constructive B) it just makes people feel like idiots and C) it clutters-up the forum when you ARE trying to search first before asking!
I do agree with your statement. I won't pretend to be innocent in that regard though, I'm guilty of telling people to search. However, every time I've done that, I've posted links to threads or other websites that can help the OP out. It helps make the point much better by demonstrating the outcome of searching.

I've said my bit now, I'm done.

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post #27 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 04:58 PM
 
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I still don't understand how my question can be considered lazy for the most part.
If I didn't ask it, it probably would have been the next question out of the OPs mouth, and it is relevant to this thread, so I'm not going to start a new one and clutter up the forums.

Now considering that the info I asked for, and most of the answers received regarding it, are relevant to this thread, and offer up information that the OP should know, weather or not he was going to ask it, simply adds to the info available here about dual exhaust.

Had I just gone off and searched I may have my answer, but there would info lacking that could help the OP with their original dilemma, and saves them time from having to search for ANOTHER thread containing info about the crossover pipes.

anyone searching for dual exhust will no doubt happen upon this thread, and perhaps find the info about the crossover pipes useful, and maybe had no clue about them or what they were, and probably would not have searched for it thinking they had found everything they needed here.

also, not one person has noticed that stryker has all of 2 posts in this thread, not a single one of which contributes any useful information what-so-ever, but he sure has made his point that he doesn't need anyone to tell him anything because he can find it on his own........ IN THREADS LIKE THIS ONE WHERE PEOPLE ASK THE QUESTIONS(Caps for emphasis, not yelling)
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post #28 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 06:51 PM
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post #29 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 07:00 PM
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Do not remove the 3rd cat is for NOX. If you remove it you will fail in the states that test for it. Ford added that cat as a cost savings measure.

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post #30 of 70 (permalink) Old 08-10-2009, 09:19 PM
 
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so they have a cat specifically for NOX?? why don't the other two do a good enough job removing it?
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