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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-18-2010, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Does muffler location effect sound?

I have Thrush chambered muflers on my '97 4.6 in the stock location. I get a little sound from them but not a lot. I realize they are a cheap muffler and that might be part of it.

I'm thinking of upgrading to Magnaflow's. I can't remove the third cat as Missouir has visual safety inspections and I can fail if the third cat is removed. (BS if you ask me as the cats have nothing to do with safety.)

I know it's a Federal law that you can not legally remove them so no need for that debate.

I'd just like to know if I'd be wasting money if I was to replace the Thrush mufflers with Magnaflow's in regards to better sound given that they will be in the stock location.
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLA View Post
I have Thrush chambered muflers on my '97 4.6 in the stock location. I get a little sound from them but not a lot. I realize they are a cheap muffler and that might be part of it.

I'm thinking of upgrading to Magnaflow's. I can't remove the third cat as Missouir has visual safety inspections and I can fail if the third cat is removed. (BS if you ask me as the cats have nothing to do with safety.)

I know it's a Federal law that you can not legally remove them so no need for that debate.

I'd just like to know if I'd be wasting money if I was to replace the Thrush mufflers with Magnaflow's in regards to better sound given that they will be in the stock location.
The 3 cats and the 2 into 1 into 2 exhaust design (especially with all those bends in it) definitely limits how loud it can be even without mufflers, which is how people get away with running straight pipes on their Birds. Most of us prefer some sort of muffler to "shape" the sound. The straight-through design of the Magnaflow will make a different sound from a chambered muffler, but I don't know whether it'll be any louder.
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 10:59 AM
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The "third" cat you are talking about is NOT a Catalatic converter it is a sound resonator and thus not regulated by law. GET RID OF IT. That should change your sound a bit.

Last edited by 91bluecoupe; 06-19-2010 at 11:19 AM.
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 11:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91bluecoupe View Post
The "third" cat you are talking about is NOT a Catalatic converter it is a sound resonator and thus not regulated by law. GET RID OF IT. That should change your sound a bit.
It is a catalytic converter and NOT a resonator. Maybe on your '96 it's a resonator (and I highly doubt it) but on my '97 it is definitely a converter.
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 12:37 PM
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105% It is a sound resonator not a cat. 96-97 had the same setup!

Think about this what effect do you think a cat would be 5 feet from the motor would be?


Check out this thread.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=114556

Last edited by 91bluecoupe; 06-19-2010 at 12:45 PM.
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91bluecoupe View Post
The "third" cat you are talking about is NOT a Catalatic converter it is a sound resonator and thus not regulated by law. GET RID OF IT. That should change your sound a bit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOLA View Post
It is a catalytic converter and NOT a resonator. Maybe on your '96 it's a resonator (and I highly doubt it) but on my '97 it is definitely a converter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 91bluecoupe View Post
105% It is a sound resonator not a cat. 96-97 had the same setup!

Think about this what effect do you think a cat would be 5 feet from the motor would be?

Check out this thread.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=114556
There is some good information in that linked thread bluecoupe.

There is a 3RD CAT and a Resonator on all 94-95 V8 MN12's The third cat sits in front of the resonator.

The 1996-1997 cars had the 8" resonator deleted which leaves them with a 3RD Cat. The third cat is not 5 feet from the engine it's more like 3 feet.

See this article for details and pictures.

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/mn12-t...st/exhaust.htm

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Last edited by Trunk Monkey; 06-19-2010 at 01:07 PM. Reason: Update and correct my response
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 01:08 PM
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My resonator was just before the rear axle.

100,000% sure.

but this is why I do not post on here much because there is ALWAYS someone to agrue ANY point.

I will leave you alone!

http://images.wrenchead.com/smartpag...e/MER/5791.jpg

Last edited by 91bluecoupe; 06-19-2010 at 01:13 PM.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by LOLA View Post
It is a catalytic converter and NOT a resonator. Maybe on your '96 it's a resonator (and I highly doubt it) but on my '97 it is definitely a converter.
I think it depends on the year and the motor.

Sweetie's 1991 Cougar XR7 with the 5.0 HO has both a third cat, AND a resonator, in series.

What good does it do? It's part of the cleanup from the cat technology in the late 80's - early 90's. Did a secondary scrub.

The new exhaust (when I win the lottery ) will be all stainless, have a pair of high flow stainless cats feeding a 2in/2out stainless muffler, with stainless mandrel bent duals back to the rear. I'll start with a pair of 18" extensions, but might put mufflers in.

Further specifics? Gonna wait until I get started putting it all in there

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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91bluecoupe View Post
My resonator was just before the rear axle.

100,000% sure.

but this is why I do not post on here much because there is ALWAYS someone to agrue ANY point.

I will leave you alone!

http://images.wrenchead.com/smartpag...e/MER/5791.jpg
Dude ur pic shows no resonator for a 96-97. I own a 95 and was just under it. There are 2 cats right off the manifold. then into a THIRD CAT and then into a resonator. No resonator by the axle.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 05:41 PM
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As was stated earlier the resonator was deleted on 96-97 models.

Mods? Yea, I got mods ...
Air silencer delete, warp drive, dilithium crystals, flux capacitor, Slingshot Rubber band power adder, Moonshine & Gas, Leaf Blower Supercharger, Hamster Wheel & Hamster, Energizer Bunny generating 1.21 gigawatts, Mr. FusionŽ Home Energy Reactor, hover conversion and a sextant celestial navigation system (The original GPS)
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See a list of my real mods and pictures of my car HERE. The true performance of my car was made possible by the Carolinas Crew Chief, RobertP at Rob's Tire & Auto
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 06:04 PM
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If you're wanting a louder exhaust note, the third cat/resonator/whatever will need to go. I'm only running two catalytic converters on both of my MN12's, and I've yet to hear a word about it during an inspection. You should have no issue passing Missouri's safety inspection with just the two front cats (stock or aftermarket).

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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 06:13 PM
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Cat Anyhow i tried a couple different mufflers on the stock exhaust Flowtec Raptor Turbos = same as stock Flowtech Afterburner 2 chamber muffler =Little better than stock so i cut the mufflers and added Hooker Resonator Tips which gives out a nice sound.So i don't think just changing mufflers on a stock system does much.
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 06:39 PM
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^^ EXACTLY how my 96 is. There is NO resonator after the 3rd CAT.

John
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 08:42 PM
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Since it's such a debate, i'll throw in my 2 cents. My 95 had the third cat and the resonator behind it. No debate on that because i personally cut them both out. As far as sound goes, yes muffler placement does make a difference. The more pipe after the muffler/s, the more rap to the sound.

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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racecougar View Post
If you're wanting a louder exhaust note, the third cat/resonator/whatever will need to go. I'm only running two catalytic converters on both of my MN12's, and I've yet to hear a word about it during an inspection. You should have no issue passing Missouri's safety inspection with just the two front cats (stock or aftermarket).
Thank you Rod.

When I was planning on removing it I called the place I have my cars inspected and asked if I removed the third converter if I would fail inspection and they told me yes.

I'm also on an Explorer/Mountaineer forum and one of the members which lives in KC close to me had removed both rear cats on his Explorer. He had his inspection done yesterday and passed.

Knowing this now I will save up and have duals ran on my Cougar. I know a place that will remove the third cat no questions asked.
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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-19-2010, 11:30 PM
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i passed texas (burnet county) inspection with absolutely NO cats on my 2004 mustang

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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-20-2010, 06:35 PM
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When the Bird's stock exhaust finally needs to be replaced, I'll probably go for these pipes and these mufflers.

Unfortunately, I've just had the pleasure of completely rebuilding the front end and replacing all four tires, so that kind of used up all the fun money for a while....

Even after fifteen years, the factory exhaust pipes are still in good enough condition that I can't really justify doing violence to them just to make it noisier. Not even any rust to speak of.

Besides, I have my old 64 Fairlane to play with if I want to hear a noisy exhaust.
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91bluecoupe View Post
105% It is a sound resonator not a cat. 96-97 had the same setup!

Think about this what effect do you think a cat would be 5 feet from the motor would be?


Check out this thread.

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=114556
I hate to burst your bubble if ithasn't been already but on the 96 and 97 they are catalytic converters, all 3 of them. This is why I was able to get $49 a piece for 3 converters at the scrap yard when I cut them off.

It was the earlier years that had the resonators, but I am 100% certain that on the 96 and 97 there are 3 cats, NO resonator and 2 mufflers at the back, end of story.

Rest In Peace Mom.
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 09:42 PM
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The stock V8 exhaust consists of 2 primary cats, 3rd Y-pipe cat, a single pipe snaking back around the fuel tank, then another Y with 2 pipes from there with mufflers on the end. Up until 1995 there was an 8" resonator just behind the 3rd cat. The 96 and 97 didn't have the resonator.

This diagram was posted earlier in the thread.

This cat and this cat-back duplicates the stock system, except it'll flow way better.

But at those prices, I'd rather go with the Mandrel Exhaust Systems instead.
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-21-2010, 10:36 PM
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In my experiences mounting the muffler closer to the engine/headers gives it a much deeper and more aggressive sound

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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckcreekbilly View Post
Since it's such a debate, i'll throw in my 2 cents. My 95 had the third cat and the resonator behind it. No debate on that because i personally cut them both out. As far as sound goes, yes muffler placement does make a difference. The more pipe after the muffler/s, the more rap to the sound.
The more rap to the sound? Clearify please
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 09:34 PM
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These clips are of my car.

The first video is my current street setup. The Magnaflow mufflers are near the rear on an 45 degree angle compared to the stock location.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TGJaws#p/u/8/PA7_qQv4rZ0

This video is of my old race setup that I never ran. It has midmounted Dynomax Ultraflo bullet mufflers right behind the X-Pipe. I don't have those mufflers anymore and the next time I am at the track, I intend to run my current race exhaust which has no mufflers.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TGJaws#p/u/11/7ExDUuvtNSw

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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-22-2010, 11:35 PM
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on my mark viii, i have hollowed out the front 2 cats, i have cut out the stock mufflers and replaced them with 3 1/2" x 18" slant cut tips, tomorrow i will be cutting out the resonator which sits behind the 3rd cat and installing a flowmaster super 44 series. there is a bit of difference in sound when there is pipe to resonate in after the muffler(s)

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hollow front cats, 3rd cat still there, no resonator, replaced by a single 40 series flowmaster, 2 3"x18" tips out back. screamin demon coil packs, mallory pro wires, motorcraft platinum plugs. intake resonator delete.
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 08:09 AM Thread Starter
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These clips are of my car.

The first video is my current street setup. The Magnaflow mufflers are near the rear on an 45 degree angle compared to the stock location.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TGJaws#p/u/8/PA7_qQv4rZ0

This video is of my old race setup that I never ran. It has midmounted Dynomax Ultraflo bullet mufflers right behind the X-Pipe. I don't have those mufflers anymore and the next time I am at the track, I intend to run my current race exhaust which has no mufflers.

http://www.youtube.com/user/TGJaws#p/u/11/7ExDUuvtNSw
Thank you for the vids. I really like how it sounds with the Magnaflows in the stock location.
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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-23-2010, 06:51 PM
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They are not exactly in the stock location, they sit on an angle. I cannot seem to find pictures of a similar system and don't have pics of mine.

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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
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They are not exactly in the stock location, they sit on an angle. I cannot seem to find pictures of a similar system and don't have pics of mine.
The shop mounted the Thrush chamber mufflers I have now at a 45 deg angle as well. By stock location I meant at the rear just before the bumper.
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 01:45 AM
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got mine done went w/ a 40 series and it sounds good not too loud at idle but nice rumble when i give it some throttle

1994 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
LT1 350
K&N Intake and Flowmaster Exhaust
1995 Lincoln Mark VIII
hollow front cats, 3rd cat still there, no resonator, replaced by a single 40 series flowmaster, 2 3"x18" tips out back. screamin demon coil packs, mallory pro wires, motorcraft platinum plugs. intake resonator delete.
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-24-2010, 09:29 AM
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I have 2 high flow cats and dynomax race bullets mounted in the stock location on a 96 4.6, its sounds great but looks kinda ruhtarded
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 06-28-2010, 09:48 AM
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So here's a question. How many cats are on a '93 with the 3.8? Is it just the two singles off each manifold going into the resonator, then back to the muffler? Or is there something my untrained eye isn't seeing?
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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 07-01-2010, 10:52 PM
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i had the same year car same motor and unfortunatly i cant remember i had duals ran with glasspacks....... by the way don't do that.

1994 Chevrolet Camaro Z28
LT1 350
K&N Intake and Flowmaster Exhaust
1995 Lincoln Mark VIII
hollow front cats, 3rd cat still there, no resonator, replaced by a single 40 series flowmaster, 2 3"x18" tips out back. screamin demon coil packs, mallory pro wires, motorcraft platinum plugs. intake resonator delete.
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