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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-13-2011, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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Magnaflow X-Pipe Resonator

Just ordered mine (part number 12468). I can't wait for it to get here and get it installed. I'm having the cats removed (no emissions here in IN), 2.5 piping from the manifolds into the resonator at the factory resonator/y pipe location, and straight back to the rear bumper where they will be turned down at the bumper. Estimated arrival time on the muffler is the 21st. The TCCoA community seems to be running short on exhaust clips these days. I'll be sure to grab a few clips when I get it done.


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
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MODS:
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Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 06-21-2011, 07:01 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE - Muffler came in last Thursday. I'm going tomorrow to have the exhaust shop look over the pictures of the bends he'll be making and hopefully I'll be able to get my car in on Thursday or Friday as long as his schedule is open and I can get my car running by then. The humidity is making me sick to my stomach.


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
85,300 miles

MODS:
Really rockin' stereo
Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
PBR front brake conversion - 245/45-18 BFG KDWs - K&N hot air intake
H&R Sport Springs - Tokico Blues (F) - Bilstein Cobra Verts (R) - A/C Delete
Sights - New paint w/ black accents - 18x8 ASA JH9s - Painted calipers - Custom trunk layout
Sounds - JL Audio ZR525-CSi (F&R) - JL Audio 8W7-3 (2) - JL Audio HD900/5
Pioneer AVIC-Z120BT - AudioControl Matrix - ALL JL Wiring

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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 07-12-2011, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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UPDATE - The work got done today. I haven't had a chance to get under the car to see how everything looks but from the few bends I could see it looks like they did a pretty good job. It definitely wasn't as loud as I was expecting it to be but I think it sounds good. Far better than the Flowmasters ever did. I'm whooped right now. I'll shoot some video tomorrow night after work and get them uploaded either shortly after or later at night.


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
85,300 miles

MODS:
Really rockin' stereo
Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
PBR front brake conversion - 245/45-18 BFG KDWs - K&N hot air intake
H&R Sport Springs - Tokico Blues (F) - Bilstein Cobra Verts (R) - A/C Delete
Sights - New paint w/ black accents - 18x8 ASA JH9s - Painted calipers - Custom trunk layout
Sounds - JL Audio ZR525-CSi (F&R) - JL Audio 8W7-3 (2) - JL Audio HD900/5
Pioneer AVIC-Z120BT - AudioControl Matrix - ALL JL Wiring

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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2011, 04:40 PM
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This is the muffler that we all use for mid-mounting right? I think its the same one I have and it sounds awesome with no cats and a single 3" tailpipe.

-Rob
RIP '94 Amber Fire Pearl Metallic Thunderbird on Bullitts [email protected]
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-07-2011, 06:56 PM
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How about that exhaust video/ sound clip? I want to know how good this sounds.

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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-13-2011, 02:05 AM Thread Starter
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Rob, this is a dual in dual out with built in x pipe.

Michael, it sounds great and I love it.I shot multiple videos but for some reason my camera didn't want to save them :/. Since there didn't seem to be much interest in this thread I decided to wait and let the packing break in. I've got maybe a couple hundred miles on the system now so ill see if my buddy can shoot some high quality video for me either this weekend or next.


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
85,300 miles

MODS:
Really rockin' stereo
Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
PBR front brake conversion - 245/45-18 BFG KDWs - K&N hot air intake
H&R Sport Springs - Tokico Blues (F) - Bilstein Cobra Verts (R) - A/C Delete
Sights - New paint w/ black accents - 18x8 ASA JH9s - Painted calipers - Custom trunk layout
Sounds - JL Audio ZR525-CSi (F&R) - JL Audio 8W7-3 (2) - JL Audio HD900/5
Pioneer AVIC-Z120BT - AudioControl Matrix - ALL JL Wiring

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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-17-2011, 10:10 PM
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interesting thread, im also getting ready to do exhaust work and was considering the x-pipe, but is it worth a crap with the converters? i already cut off the pre cats but really it sounds like ass atm, raspy and loud like a old pick up.not the mustang type of sound i was shooting for lol

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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-30-2011, 02:36 PM
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I was looking in to doing a true dual but wasn't sure if I cut off all the cats do you still need to use the o2 sensors anymore? Did a search but nothing really answered my question if I had all the cats cut off and installed a mid mount x-pipe and straight pipes to the rear do you still use any of the sensors. Being as I live in Florida we are not subject to inspections. Aslo would the car run corectly and or need a tune for that?


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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-30-2011, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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My buddy has a Mustang and he always calls me when he knows I'm driving by and says "Hey! You just drove by... cuz it sounded like a stock Mustang" If I were to do it over again I'd go with the shortest muffler case length in an attempt to make it even louder.

The O2s after the cats don't do anything so when I had the cats cut, I had them remove the rear O2s as well. No tune is really needed but you will have a CEL on all the time without them. The front O2s are still vital to the system though.


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
85,300 miles

MODS:
Really rockin' stereo
Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
PBR front brake conversion - 245/45-18 BFG KDWs - K&N hot air intake
H&R Sport Springs - Tokico Blues (F) - Bilstein Cobra Verts (R) - A/C Delete
Sights - New paint w/ black accents - 18x8 ASA JH9s - Painted calipers - Custom trunk layout
Sounds - JL Audio ZR525-CSi (F&R) - JL Audio 8W7-3 (2) - JL Audio HD900/5
Pioneer AVIC-Z120BT - AudioControl Matrix - ALL JL Wiring

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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-31-2011, 01:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dew the thunder View Post
My buddy has a Mustang and he always calls me when he knows I'm driving by and says "Hey! You just drove by... cuz it sounded like a stock Mustang" If I were to do it over again I'd go with the shortest muffler case length in an attempt to make it even louder.

The O2s after the cats don't do anything so when I had the cats cut, I had them remove the rear O2s as well. No tune is really needed but you will have a CEL on all the time without them. The front O2s are still vital to the system though.
Actually it's been proven that along with monitoring the catalytic converters efficiency it does something else as well. Pm guitarmaestro for details on what else they do before spreading misinformation.

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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-31-2011, 10:17 AM
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Thanks for the input guys. I just want to make sure I am not going mess anything up by cutting things off that are needed. I am looking for an inexspencesive but a correct way to do a true dual with out sacraficing power. Seems everyone has a different set up so just getting info to get an idea of how I would want to piece one up for me. Sorry for robbing on this thread...

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 08-31-2011, 12:44 PM
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I didnt know the downstreams were used for anything besides catalyst monitoring! Could someone shed some light on this?

The muffler I have (had on the last car, ) is the narrow 2.5" dual in, dual out with x. My brother has one thats DI/DO with 2.5" and a larger body on his Centurion w 5.8l.

-Rob
RIP '94 Amber Fire Pearl Metallic Thunderbird on Bullitts [email protected]
96 Sport '02 Explorer PI with ported heads, 90MM LMAF, DirtyDog Marauder TC, Lasota tune, Jmod, Magnaflow mid-mount with X, no cats. Urethane drivers motor mount. HIDs!
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-01-2011, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_Murder View Post
Pm guitarmaestro for details on what else they do before spreading misinformation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob View Post
Could someone shed some light on this?
My intent was not to spread misleading information. 9/10s of the information I have read on this site basically said that they are not needed and serve no important use. If someone has information that says otherwise I think it needs to be present in this thread as it's one of the most recent involving going cat-less.

EDIT - I PMed guitar maestro a link to this thread and asked him to share his knowledge.


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
85,300 miles

MODS:
Really rockin' stereo
Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
PBR front brake conversion - 245/45-18 BFG KDWs - K&N hot air intake
H&R Sport Springs - Tokico Blues (F) - Bilstein Cobra Verts (R) - A/C Delete
Sights - New paint w/ black accents - 18x8 ASA JH9s - Painted calipers - Custom trunk layout
Sounds - JL Audio ZR525-CSi (F&R) - JL Audio 8W7-3 (2) - JL Audio HD900/5
Pioneer AVIC-Z120BT - AudioControl Matrix - ALL JL Wiring

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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-01-2011, 08:03 PM
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I've been trying to find the link to the site for over a year that describes how the rear O2s can function as a reality check on the front O2S in the same way the front O2s serve as a reality check on the maf. So I can't prove it yet, and even then it might not have been implemented into our eec's.
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-01-2011, 09:12 PM
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I am not sure what the front and rear O2s do when you don't have any cats, but my car has them. The EEC was done by Jerry W and verified by Darrin that the rears are enabled, so they must do something besides a cat check.

It seems kind of strange to have front and rear O2s on straight pipes, but they are there and Jerry is the man. This is a custom exhaust so they were put in there for some reason, but don't ask me why.


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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-02-2011, 11:26 AM
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I think I'm just gonna get some aftermarket cats and do the mid X and straight pipes to the rear and keep the O2's. They must be there for some purpose. If not anything else I will not be poluting our air and no stupid CEL. Thank you "dew the thunder" for the thread.


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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-02-2011, 04:56 PM
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The rear O2 thing got my curiosity so I cut an pasted a few things below. After some searching I found that the major function is a cat check, but it can figure into the fuel trim calculation.

Fuel trim refers to adjustments being made dynamically to the base fuel table to get the proper ratio of fuel to air. Short term fuel trim refers to adjustments being made in response to temporary conditions. Long term fuel trim is used to compensate for issues that seem to be present over a much longer period. Fuel trims are expressed in percentages; positive values indicate lean (add fuel) and negative values indicate rich (subtract fuel). Fuel trim banks refer to the cylinder banks in a V style engine. Cylinder #1 is always in bank 1. Fuel trim is generally calculated by using a wide set of data values, including front O2 sensors, intake air temperature/pressure (or the more elegent air mass sensor), engine (coolant) temp, anti-knock sensors, engine load, throttle position (and change in throttle position), and even battery voltage can effect fuel trim. Long term fuel trim generally should not exceed +- 10

The rear O2 has a mininumal part in the calculation in OBD-II, maybe none depending on the software. Jerry updated the software in my EEC to a later version when he reflashed it back in early 2002.

Rear Fuel Trim
The rear oxygen sensor, located after the catalyst, is used for fuel trim corrections on some OBD-II vehicles. By virtue of its location, the rear sensor is generally protected from high temperatures and much of the contamination that affects the front oxygen sensors. In addition, the rear sensor sees exhaust gases that are equilibrated – they have already been converted by the catalyst so that there is very little residual oxygen. This allows the rear sensor to respond to much smaller changes in exhaust gas oxygen content. In turn, it then possible for the rear sensor voltage to remain near the 0.45 volt switchpoint. This characteristic allows the rear sensor to be used for fuel control. Under steady rpm and load conditions, the short term fuel trim bias can be adjusted so that the rear sensor voltage is maintained near the 0.45 volt switchpoint. This ensures that the catalyst is getting a stoichiometric exhaust gas mixture, despite any shift in the front sensor switchpoint. The rear fuel trim corrections are learned in KAM. Internally, this system is known as Fore Aft Oxygen Sensor Control (FAOSC). Note that FAOSC learns and reacts very slowly because the catalyst, with its large/slow oxygen storage and release characteristic, is part of the control loop. Also, this system cannot be used with a “y-pipe” exhaust where a single rear sensor would try to adjust dual front sensors.

There is a TSB also on O2 sensors: http://v8sho.com/SHO/TSB0197HO2SServiceTips.htm

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-03-2011, 02:41 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you GM and Dusty for chiming in. Like I stated before, I do not want to be the source of any misleading information.

That being said, I will try my best to have a couple videos of the exhaust up by the end of the long weekend. I am hoping for enough free time to do so. Thanks for being so patient everyone!


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
85,300 miles

MODS:
Really rockin' stereo
Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
PBR front brake conversion - 245/45-18 BFG KDWs - K&N hot air intake
H&R Sport Springs - Tokico Blues (F) - Bilstein Cobra Verts (R) - A/C Delete
Sights - New paint w/ black accents - 18x8 ASA JH9s - Painted calipers - Custom trunk layout
Sounds - JL Audio ZR525-CSi (F&R) - JL Audio 8W7-3 (2) - JL Audio HD900/5
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-03-2011, 07:52 AM
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Don't worry about it. Most people including techs say the rears are just a cat check. The only reason I was wondering is that my car had both without cats.

At the end of the day it probably does not matter much.

We kind of diverged on your thread. I would imagine your exhaust is pretty loud?

I have a Magnaflow reasonator in the front like you, but it goes into a single 3" outlet and splits into two Magnaflow mufflers in the rear. It is pretty quiet at idle, put pretty loud under acceleration.

Look forward to hearing your clip. I guess I should do one one day.

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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-03-2011, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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The shop that did mine actually offered to put bungs in the pipes for the rears but it was like an extra 100 in labor and they said one of the rears was broken. Obviously I opted away from that. I still don't think they matter but thats just my opinion. My car is running ten times better than it was before, but then again, its late enough in the year that if I break something I won't care because its getting put up soon.

Mine is somewhat loud and aggressive. I'd prefer it to be a touch louder which is why I am kinda regretting not going with a shorter case design. They still have a 14" and an 11" below my 18". I've still only got a few hundred miles on the system but I run my car hard so I'm hoping the muffler is about all the way broken in. Seems to get louder every other time I drive it.

All I know for sure is that I would NEVER recommend to any 4.6 owner to run a Flowmaster system. That's what I pulled off my car and I hated it since the day I got the car.


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
85,300 miles

MODS:
Really rockin' stereo
Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
PBR front brake conversion - 245/45-18 BFG KDWs - K&N hot air intake
H&R Sport Springs - Tokico Blues (F) - Bilstein Cobra Verts (R) - A/C Delete
Sights - New paint w/ black accents - 18x8 ASA JH9s - Painted calipers - Custom trunk layout
Sounds - JL Audio ZR525-CSi (F&R) - JL Audio 8W7-3 (2) - JL Audio HD900/5
Pioneer AVIC-Z120BT - AudioControl Matrix - ALL JL Wiring

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 12:30 AM
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My magnaflow exhaust setup only has front O2 bungs. I unhooked the rear sensors and put silicone in the harness connectors. Everytime I scanned the car though, I would get the PCM failure code from having a chip, then circuit fault codes for all 4 of my oxygen sensors. I never saw the data showing them turned "ON" either, but they did show a good reading. Just some stuff I noticed.

Come to think of it, my "new" 96 Sport doesnt throw any codes besides the "at adaptive lean limit" ones with the chip plugged in. X2 on the Flowmasters. I used to have a pair of Flowmaster 50s in the stock location. They drug the ground sometimes too. The magnaflow setup sounds way better and gets all kinds of compliments. BTW, a mid-mount magaflow under the car with NO tailpipes sounds freaking awesome, but it is hellaciously loud inside the car and it does kinda blow exhaust right on the gas tank. I only ran mine around town like that for a couple of days before I made my 3" tailpipe.

-Rob
RIP '94 Amber Fire Pearl Metallic Thunderbird on Bullitts [email protected]
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-06-2011, 07:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dusty View Post
The rear O2 thing got my curiosity so I cut an pasted a few things below. After some searching I found that the major function is a cat check, but it can figure into the fuel trim calculation.
Now that's some cool info.

Delete my account.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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clicky linky to see videos

I think it sounds a little bit louder in the videos than it does in person. I'm too afraid to let any of my friends drive it so I can see exactly how loud it is but I think it sounds great.


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
85,300 miles

MODS:
Really rockin' stereo
Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
PBR front brake conversion - 245/45-18 BFG KDWs - K&N hot air intake
H&R Sport Springs - Tokico Blues (F) - Bilstein Cobra Verts (R) - A/C Delete
Sights - New paint w/ black accents - 18x8 ASA JH9s - Painted calipers - Custom trunk layout
Sounds - JL Audio ZR525-CSi (F&R) - JL Audio 8W7-3 (2) - JL Audio HD900/5
Pioneer AVIC-Z120BT - AudioControl Matrix - ALL JL Wiring

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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 09:11 PM
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Sounds good. Got me motivated to get some clips of mine that is similar with additon of the rear mufflers. I kind of like my quiet idle for the no cop attention.

I will give it a try after I get back from my vacation the end of the month.

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
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clicky linky to see videos

I think it sounds a little bit louder in the videos than it does in person. I'm too afraid to let any of my friends drive it so I can see exactly how loud it is but I think it sounds great.
Good sounding pipes, I think a WOT drive-by is required on some barren type road of course. This is kinda what I'm wanting after i get a few things installed on Bird.

Mods: The usual stuff... 3.73 Gears, J-mod, catless mandrel 2.5" true duals, Marauder Converter, Eibachs, Xcal2 and Phoenix Gold Audio, chrome 18's, etc. etc..
I joined the dark side...
2002 Mustang GT, FRPP Aluminator with Tork Tech MP112 intercooled S/C at 17PSI, with all the supporting mods.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-07-2011, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: South Bend, IN
Age: 31
Posts: 218
A WOT drive-by will not be hard to accomplish. My friends and I "own" a couple roads out in the boonies. I'm hoping that I may even be able to get to the 1/4 mile Friday to get a baseline time and a WOT run.


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
85,300 miles

MODS:
Really rockin' stereo
Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
PBR front brake conversion - 245/45-18 BFG KDWs - K&N hot air intake
H&R Sport Springs - Tokico Blues (F) - Bilstein Cobra Verts (R) - A/C Delete
Sights - New paint w/ black accents - 18x8 ASA JH9s - Painted calipers - Custom trunk layout
Sounds - JL Audio ZR525-CSi (F&R) - JL Audio 8W7-3 (2) - JL Audio HD900/5
Pioneer AVIC-Z120BT - AudioControl Matrix - ALL JL Wiring

The Daily Duties Handled By 2000 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro 5-Speed
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-08-2011, 11:31 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: West Palm Beach, FL.
Age: 42
Posts: 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by dew the thunder View Post
A WOT drive-by will not be hard to accomplish. My friends and I "own" a couple roads out in the boonies. I'm hoping that I may even be able to get to the 1/4 mile Friday to get a baseline time and a WOT run.
Do you have any idle problems without the cats and the sensors?

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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-08-2011, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: South Bend, IN
Age: 31
Posts: 218
The car has had some kind of problem with the throttle system since I got it. Though it's never been bad enough that it makes me wanna fix it before I do a motor swap/build. But to more specifically answer your question, no, the car had no noticeable change in the way it idles since the exhaust was completed. In fact, the car has never felt stronger. Needs a little help in the upper RPM range though.


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
85,300 miles

MODS:
Really rockin' stereo
Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
PBR front brake conversion - 245/45-18 BFG KDWs - K&N hot air intake
H&R Sport Springs - Tokico Blues (F) - Bilstein Cobra Verts (R) - A/C Delete
Sights - New paint w/ black accents - 18x8 ASA JH9s - Painted calipers - Custom trunk layout
Sounds - JL Audio ZR525-CSi (F&R) - JL Audio 8W7-3 (2) - JL Audio HD900/5
Pioneer AVIC-Z120BT - AudioControl Matrix - ALL JL Wiring

The Daily Duties Handled By 2000 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro 5-Speed
dew the thunder is offline  
post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-13-2011, 09:31 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary,Canada
Age: 48
Posts: 483
Quote:
Originally Posted by dew the thunder View Post
The car has had some kind of problem with the throttle system since I got it. Though it's never been bad enough that it makes me wanna fix it before I do a motor swap/build. But to more specifically answer your question, no, the car had no noticeable change in the way it idles since the exhaust was completed. In fact, the car has never felt stronger. Needs a little help in the upper RPM range though.
A PI intake will solve that, I'll have an almost brand new one for sale in about a month's time. drilled and tapped for second sensor. I want tohear a WOT driveby as my car is going in next week for a complete exhaust makeover in preparation for a couple of things.

Mods: The usual stuff... 3.73 Gears, J-mod, catless mandrel 2.5" true duals, Marauder Converter, Eibachs, Xcal2 and Phoenix Gold Audio, chrome 18's, etc. etc..
I joined the dark side...
2002 Mustang GT, FRPP Aluminator with Tork Tech MP112 intercooled S/C at 17PSI, with all the supporting mods.
Stryker is offline  
post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 09-14-2011, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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dew the thunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: South Bend, IN
Age: 31
Posts: 218
My plan is to get a Explorer motor and do a big bore 5.0 to it with a custom set of heads/cams and I haven't decided what intake yet. But depending on how long that build will take me, I may be putting the explorer heads and intake on my stock block.

I'll work on getting a WOT pass for you guys.


-Brice-
1996 Thunderbird Sport 4.6L SOHC
85,300 miles

MODS:
Really rockin' stereo
Go-Parts
- Screamin' Demon packs - Livewire plug wires - Magnaflow resonated X pipe
PBR front brake conversion - 245/45-18 BFG KDWs - K&N hot air intake
H&R Sport Springs - Tokico Blues (F) - Bilstein Cobra Verts (R) - A/C Delete
Sights - New paint w/ black accents - 18x8 ASA JH9s - Painted calipers - Custom trunk layout
Sounds - JL Audio ZR525-CSi (F&R) - JL Audio 8W7-3 (2) - JL Audio HD900/5
Pioneer AVIC-Z120BT - AudioControl Matrix - ALL JL Wiring

The Daily Duties Handled By 2000 Audi A4 1.8T Quattro 5-Speed
dew the thunder is offline  
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