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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2014, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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Smile HELP EGR pipe short. SCP shorty headers/ Done now

I'm installing Super Coupe Performance shorty headers. I'm working on the passenger side and the copper pipe from the header to the EGR is too short. It's about an inch short. I don't see how I could rebend it to fit. Is there another pipe I could get? Braided stainless? more copper?

After sleeping off some frustration, I might be able to add to length with plumbers solder and proper sized copper pipe. The header fitting is further away length wise and lower than stock.

FYI, These recent manufacture header pipes are too big to provide clearance to get a socket around the original bolt heads. I'm using the SCP install kit bolts and still have to use open end wrenches to get the bolts turned in. Some I can only get a quarter turn at a time. I had to grind the alternator bracket down to clear the exhaust pipe where the header bolt is and left the engine hoisting bracket off. The hoist bracket straddles a header pipe and is held with two header bolts and would need to have the opening for the pipe opened a bunch.

I broke a tiny plastic line that appears to pass air. It comes off a larger rubber line that parallels the engine passenger side. I always thought I was going to break this some day and yesterday was the day. I don't know what it is and will be looking to identify and repair or replace it. It attaches to a metal valve in the larger rubber line with rubber female fitting over metal male on the metal valve and goes towards the firewall.

1992 Tbird LX 5.0, 3.73 gears, 1995 Cobra intake, deleted air silencer, 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust, SCP shorty headers. Updated four-hole fuel injectors. SK shift kit in AOD. Vogtland 0.9" springs, Tokico and Bilstein shocks.

Last edited by gordonm1; 01-03-2015 at 06:52 PM.
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2014, 10:57 AM
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Are you using the little pipe coupling between the header and manifold? It's there on the 4.6 flavor manifolds, I assume it's there on the 5.0 stuff...

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=139387

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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2014, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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That fitting is not on my 5.0 manifold. At first glance, it has the extra inch I want if the threads matched my stuff. But it will extend the pipe toward the firewall probably making my problem worse. The fitting/bung on the header points toward the firewall and the EGR pipe S' curves up and away from the firewall. I am currently ending up too low and on the firewall side of the EGR fitting.

1992 Tbird LX 5.0, 3.73 gears, 1995 Cobra intake, deleted air silencer, 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust, SCP shorty headers. Updated four-hole fuel injectors. SK shift kit in AOD. Vogtland 0.9" springs, Tokico and Bilstein shocks.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2014, 12:26 PM
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Are you using a spacer with your Cobra Intake?

This is the first time I've heard of anyone having issues using the Cobra Intake with the stock EGR Pipe..

Another member here was using a 1/2 spacer on his Cobra Intake..So he had to make an extension for his EGR Pipe to reach the Upper Intake..

Quote:
Originally Posted by BosNA302
The other kinda PITA thing to deal with is the egr tubing itself.. with the 1/2" spacer mine wouldn't stretch to meet the egr valve anymore, so I went to the junkyard and cut the male bottom off a truck egr, and took the egr "nut" and welded them back to back making a little 1" egr extender, which allows easy hookup of the egr, and can be R&Red easily when it comes time to change egrs.
As far as that vacuum line you broke..That hooks into the Smog System..

Here's a diagram:


IIRC..You can trace that vacuum line back to the upper passenger side firewall if you want to replace it..





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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2014, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Hello Rayo and Happy Holidays:

I'm using the Cobra intake and the SCP shorty headers. The combination may be creating the problem. I'm considering buying some copper pipe and coupler to solder together or getting a pipe bender and heat up what I have to try for a fit. It would be nice if you could find a braided stainless line that fits. A pipe bender will help either way I go with the existing copper.

I don't think a spacer was used in my Cobra intake. The upper plenum does hit the sound blanket in the hood at the forward most edges of the upper intake and one bolt digs deep into the hood blanket.

The vacuum line I broke plugs into part 98289 in your diagram. I don't see a part number in the diagram. Some tiny rubber hose might seal the plastic line that I broke and serve as a coupler.

BosNA302's idea would work with a coupler if I could get another EGR pipe from a junkyard. Cut each one a little longer than half length and solder together with a coupler. Then employ pipe bending to make a fit.

If and when I get these shorty headers installed properly I will replace my True Bendz X-pipe with their resonator x-pipe hoping to reduce the brain draining drone using Magnaflow mufflers and no Cats. After that, it will be more or bigger mufflers for the true dual exhaust. It does sound like a muscle car when you stomp the pedal but the drone at 70 mph is too much. I am told the new shorty headers will make it louder still so the exhaust will almost surely be getting revisited. Good performance increase with what I have done so far though.

1992 Tbird LX 5.0, 3.73 gears, 1995 Cobra intake, deleted air silencer, 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust, SCP shorty headers. Updated four-hole fuel injectors. SK shift kit in AOD. Vogtland 0.9" springs, Tokico and Bilstein shocks.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-27-2014, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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Again to Rayo:

I will need to trace the vacuum line back to both ends. It may be replaceable with just vacuum a tiny hose if both ends are female.

I spent this day waiting for responses here and hunting pheasant and quail with my 80 yo papa.
I got a quail and a good workout and papa saw a trophy rack on his duck lease land. Crawling under and above my Tbird got me pretty sore the day before.

1992 Tbird LX 5.0, 3.73 gears, 1995 Cobra intake, deleted air silencer, 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust, SCP shorty headers. Updated four-hole fuel injectors. SK shift kit in AOD. Vogtland 0.9" springs, Tokico and Bilstein shocks.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordonm1 View Post
Hello Rayo and Happy Holidays:

I'm using the Cobra intake and the SCP shorty headers. The combination may be creating the problem. I'm considering buying some copper pipe and coupler to solder together or getting a pipe bender and heat up what I have to try for a fit. It would be nice if you could find a braided stainless line that fits. A pipe bender will help either way I go with the existing copper.

I don't think a spacer was used in my Cobra intake. The upper plenum does hit the sound blanket in the hood at the forward most edges of the upper intake and one bolt digs deep into the hood blanket.

The vacuum line I broke plugs into part 98289 in your diagram. I don't see a part number in the diagram. Some tiny rubber hose might seal the plastic line that I broke and serve as a coupler.

BosNA302's idea would work with a coupler if I could get another EGR pipe from a junkyard. Cut each one a little longer than half length and solder together with a coupler. Then employ pipe bending to make a fit.

If and when I get these shorty headers installed properly I will replace my True Bendz X-pipe with their resonator x-pipe hoping to reduce the brain draining drone using Magnaflow mufflers and no Cats. After that, it will be more or bigger mufflers for the true dual exhaust. It does sound like a muscle car when you stomp the pedal but the drone at 70 mph is too much. I am told the new shorty headers will make it louder still so the exhaust will almost surely be getting revisited. Good performance increase with what I have done so far though.
Happy Holidays!

The stock EGR Pipe is made out of steel in case you didn't know..

Making your own EGR Pipe out of 1/2" copper would actually work pretty good if you can get the right "S bend" in it..

The key to bending copper pipe by hand is to make sure it has something inside the pipe solidifying it..Like Sand,Salt or even Ice..

As long as you keep something on the inside of the pipe to solidify it..It shouldn't kink..

The stock EGR Pipe has an OD of about .62"..1/2 copper pipe has an OD of around .625"..So it's pretty close..

If you can get a set of flaring tools like what they sell at Harbor Freight you should be all set..--->>>Harbor Freight Double Tube Flaring Tool Kit

The flaring tools will allow you to make the necessary flares on the ends of the (copper) EGR Pipe to hold the Male and Female fittings on there..



Only thing about that is..You'll have to reuse the Male and Female fittings off your stock EGR Pipe unless you can locate these fittings somewhere else..

About the vacuum line you broke that runs to part# 9B289..You should be able to use a similar size vacuum line..Like what you'd find at the parts store..

Get some pics up of your exhaust system when you get a chance..I want to see how that looks under there..

Sounds like fun hunting quail..When I was just a wee lad I use to hunt quail with a friend of mine..

Anyways you have to step away from working on something sometimes if it's really frustrating..





Rayo..

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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-28-2014, 11:16 AM Thread Starter
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The factory EGR pipe looked like copper to me but it bent like steel as in not much with my bare hands. I'll be checking it with a magnet. If I go with flexible copper and my old fittings and a flaring tool I should be able to use a much longer pipe length and get it done. I hope it seals. I can work on the driver's side while I get the EGR pipe worked out but I may just watch football this morning. Later today I'll definitely be watching the Seahawks and Steelers.

I am going to try finding the flaring tool at Ace Hardware tomorrow. I have been wanting to visit Harbor Freight to get more jack stands, welding helmet, and tools for working on the car but they are 1-1/2 hours drive away.

1992 Tbird LX 5.0, 3.73 gears, 1995 Cobra intake, deleted air silencer, 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust, SCP shorty headers. Updated four-hole fuel injectors. SK shift kit in AOD. Vogtland 0.9" springs, Tokico and Bilstein shocks.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-30-2014, 12:25 AM
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You can't solder on an EGR pipe and expect for it to be a successful venture. Absolute bare minimum it would need to be brazed.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-30-2014, 11:09 AM Thread Starter
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The pipe is at a radiator shop getting extended. They suggested silver solder but I am passing on the suggestion for brazing.

I have a hobby wire feed welder that might have done it Flexible copper might have worked with no joints and just flares?

They measured my pipe with calipers at 5/8" diameter.

1992 Tbird LX 5.0, 3.73 gears, 1995 Cobra intake, deleted air silencer, 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust, SCP shorty headers. Updated four-hole fuel injectors. SK shift kit in AOD. Vogtland 0.9" springs, Tokico and Bilstein shocks.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-03-2015, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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My first try a pic posting:

You might have to squint but the little shiny parts down low are the shorty headers in.









One more of passenger side firewall area. I've got about thirty little scabs healing.


1992 Tbird LX 5.0, 3.73 gears, 1995 Cobra intake, deleted air silencer, 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust, SCP shorty headers. Updated four-hole fuel injectors. SK shift kit in AOD. Vogtland 0.9" springs, Tokico and Bilstein shocks.

Last edited by Rodeo Joe; 01-03-2015 at 05:15 PM. Reason: Merged posts
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 06:01 AM
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No pics of the "modified" EGR Pipe?

Exhaust looks good..The rear section near the Differential is a little low for my liking though..

When you get a chance..Can you take a pic of both of the Down Pipes mated up to SCP headers?

Thanks..






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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 11:32 AM Thread Starter
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I finished up near sunset when my driveway goes from having free solar heat to "geeze hit it's cold out" and forgot about getting pictures while it was on jackstands. I'm getting a shift kit and possible tranny rebuild this week. I may stop by and take some pics if they leave it on a hoist.

The EGR pipe is in the last pic, it has the mesh insulation just left of the yellow plastic throttle/cruise control linkage top right in photo. They extended it about an inch just below the upper bend in the pic, between the flexible corrugated part of the pipe and the upper bend.
The pipe they used was slightly larger diameter than the stock diameter.

You can see a portion of the collector and downpipe in the last pic. I expect you want pics from below the car. Both are pretty accessible from below. I used locking washers to make the flange bolts easier to tighten from below. A set of 90 degree crow's feet wrenches and the ratcheting box wrenches are on my wish list. They might have helped in a lot of tight places.

I lost a little ground clearance at those big bends at the differential. They are easily seen from another car's perspective though and look kind of "cool" in a muscle car way. They will stay silver longer if you pay the extra dough for stainless pipes. Could I spray some chrome paint on my pipes? I need to get muffler tips too. Straight out or curved down?

1992 Tbird LX 5.0, 3.73 gears, 1995 Cobra intake, deleted air silencer, 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust, SCP shorty headers. Updated four-hole fuel injectors. SK shift kit in AOD. Vogtland 0.9" springs, Tokico and Bilstein shocks.
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-04-2015, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordonm1
I'm getting a shift kit and possible tranny rebuild this week. I may stop by and take some pics if they leave it on a hoist.

You can see a portion of the collector and downpipe in the last pic. I expect you want pics from below the car. Both are pretty accessible from below.

Could I spray some chrome paint on my pipes? I need to get muffler tips too. Straight out or curved down?
Yeah..If you can take some pics of the downpipes when it's up in the air..Where they mate to the headers..

You can use header paint on the exhaust..Any high temp silver paint should work though..Like VHT Flame Proof Paint (Part# SP117)

I like the way the stock tips look..They don't point straight out, but they don't point straight down either..





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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-09-2015, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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More exhaust pictures









1992 Tbird LX 5.0, 3.73 gears, 1995 Cobra intake, deleted air silencer, 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust, SCP shorty headers. Updated four-hole fuel injectors. SK shift kit in AOD. Vogtland 0.9" springs, Tokico and Bilstein shocks.

Last edited by Rodeo Joe; 01-10-2015 at 04:31 AM.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-16-2015, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordonm1
More exhaust pictures
Nice..


Did you use the SCP Down Tubes then?

Looks good..







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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 01-16-2015, 08:43 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Rayo:

The down tubes came from True Bendz with my complete exhaust kit. Everything is mandrel bent by them. The down tubes did not come with hi flow cats and my exhaust guy did not think he could add the cats and get them to fit. Most others do though from what I read here.

A Magnaflow resonator x-pipe shipped yesterday in my attempt to reduce 1000-2000rpm drone. I should have good flow still with no cats and big pipes.

1992 Tbird LX 5.0, 3.73 gears, 1995 Cobra intake, deleted air silencer, 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust, SCP shorty headers. Updated four-hole fuel injectors. SK shift kit in AOD. Vogtland 0.9" springs, Tokico and Bilstein shocks.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-09-2015, 05:45 PM
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Hey Gordon,
What's the update on this thread? how's the drone?

Also do you have anymore pics?


Thanks,

Tim
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-10-2015, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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TbirdTim:

The drone is no longer the most important thing about driving my car (Yeehah). I have several pics at my photobucket site. I don't know if you can browse all of them. They are all I have taken.

I ended up paying extra to have the 2.5" high flow cats installed and a Magnaflow DI/DO resonator instead of an Xpipe. The second exhaust guy moved the transition to the third muffler back a bit and replaced all the pipe forward up to his cat install. He left me with a complete exhaust with no break point near the middle so I have about 12 feet of 2.5" dual exhaust acting as a lever on my shorty headers. I don't like this leverage on my headers.

I cut my pipe to remove the differential to add a 3.73 differential. I will work harder at disassembly of the differential to avoid cutting the exhaust again. Maybe you can remove the rear differential mounting bracket and cover and slip it out the back if you pull both axles. I only pulled one axle and cut the right side pipe. Welding it back I did not get it perfect.

My current setup is three Magnaflow mufflers and two high flow cats and I have lots of room for improvement in front of the exhaust(heads, intake, fuel supply, long tube headers). The xpipe was too loud with my 2.5" pipes so I replaced with the Magnaflow DI/DO resonator. It's still way louder than stock but its ok with windows up and it roars when you punch it.

I'd be curious to hear more from guys that did a true dual 2-1/4" exhaust. That might work ok for Naturally Aspirated motors. However, I did think adding my cats and the resonator slowed things down a bit when going wide open throttle. I thought my all mechanical transmission was not keeping up with rpm's and shifting too late before I added the cats and resonator. Maybe that was perfect but it was too loud for me.

The EGR pipe extension was pretty simple. The shop added about 1" via brazing. I did not think it was necessary to show you an extra inch on my pipe with a detailed picture. I think I was fortunate my EGR pipe was not as rusted as some cars may have in saltier/wetter road environments. My pipe was still flexible and did not show any corrosion.

I'm about ready to pay for a tune to get EGR delete and smog delete. I have about 5 patches to my nylon EGR hoses and I would like to eliminate the smog hose on the passenger side of the motor so I can get to the spark plugs without a hoist. The SCP shorty headers make spark plugs a new challenge.

1992 Tbird LX 5.0, 3.73 gears, 1995 Cobra intake, deleted air silencer, 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust, SCP shorty headers. Updated four-hole fuel injectors. SK shift kit in AOD. Vogtland 0.9" springs, Tokico and Bilstein shocks.

Last edited by gordonm1; 12-10-2015 at 05:23 PM.
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