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post #1 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Dual exhaust piping and cats

I purchased the TruBendz dual exhaust piping for cat-back and will be having it installed soon.

Looking under the car something that strikes me is that coming out of third cat it's a single out, which means it would be dual leading into third and single coming out....then dual again with TruBendz pipes (which has x-pipe).

Is the x-pipe meant to replace the third cat? If not, is there a way to have true dual and keep the third cat....or is the intention to ditch it for the true dual setup?

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post #2 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 06:34 PM
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I believe the idea is to have the x pipe replace the 3rd cat. It will not affect emissions and would be counter-productive to keep the 3rd cat leading in to a single pipe then split back in to dual, which would just be recreating the stock exhaust setup.
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post #3 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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That's what I figured, however, no shop wants to touch the third cat in fear of fines.

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post #4 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 09:15 PM
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So cut it out of there before you bring the car into the shop.

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post #5 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 09:35 PM
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+1

It's illegal to remove an emissions device and big fines can be levied against the shop who does it. They're covering their ass.

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post #6 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 09:53 PM
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Just need to shop around and find the drunk guy exhaust shop .. the 40 oz bottle on a shelf is a good indicator. He'll do it for cash, after hours
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post #7 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-16-2016, 11:44 PM Thread Starter
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Say I cut it out, wouldn't any shop worth a sh!t figure it out and refuse to work on it? Also, if I cut it out would I remove everything from 3rd cat back and bring it to a shop?

If anybody lives in Illinois and knows of a place let me know.

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post #8 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 08:00 AM
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A shop can be fined for removing a cat. If it was removed prior to the car's arrival, the shop is in the clear. Just cut the exhaust in front of the 3rd cat and drive it there like that. If you are really concerned about it though, they do make dual in/out high flow cats that you could install in its place.
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post #9 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurch View Post
I purchased the TruBendz dual exhaust piping for cat-back and will be having it installed soon.

Looking under the car something that strikes me is that coming out of third cat it's a single out, which means it would be dual leading into third and single coming out....then dual again with TruBendz pipes (which has x-pipe).

Is the x-pipe meant to replace the third cat? If not, is there a way to have true dual and keep the third cat....or is the intention to ditch it for the true dual setup?
I don't see how you'll have room for this unless you at least remove the resonator, which may make your car too loud, but I don't know. I replaced my resonator with an x-pipe inside of a resonator. But, I was also able to remove the 3rd cat.

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post #10 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurch View Post
Say I cut it out, wouldn't any shop worth a sh!t figure it out and refuse to work on it? Also, if I cut it out would I remove everything from 3rd cat back and bring it to a shop?

If anybody lives in Illinois and knows of a place let me know.
It's out of their hands if that's what you bring them, they are fined if THEY remove it and put something incorrect in it's place, not if you brought them a car that simply needs an exhaust welded on. It's all technicalities, grey areas and wink winks.

Where in Illinois? That's vague as hell lol

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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-17-2016, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
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It's out of their hands if that's what you bring them, they are fined if THEY remove it and put something incorrect in it's place, not if you brought them a car that simply needs an exhaust welded on. It's all technicalities, grey areas and wink winks.

Where in Illinois? That's vague as hell lol
Ya, the shop I was going to use had already seen the car with everything intact, so if I showed up with everything suddenly gone I doubt they'd be ok with that.

Fortunately, I found another shop that's a father & son deal who say they'll do it. Granted he didn't speak the best English, so hopefully he understood me If all goes well, the bird will have the true duals with Thrush welded mufflers tomorrow morning.

I'm located in Yorkville btw

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Last edited by lurch; 06-17-2016 at 11:50 PM.
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-18-2016, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurch View Post
Ya, the shop I was going to use had already seen the car with everything intact, so if I showed up with everything suddenly gone I doubt they'd be ok with that.

Fortunately, I found another shop that's a father & son deal who say they'll do it. Granted he didn't speak the best English, so hopefully he understood me If all goes well, the bird will have the true duals with Thrush welded mufflers tomorrow morning.

I'm located in Yorkville btw
Well not that it matters but If you're up front with them they aren't obligated to bat an eye, they probably wont have any personal objection to doing it, they're a business, they WANT business. What they don't want is to be handed a $10,000 fine after being being paid to lop off a catalytic converter for a customer who for all they know is inspecting their business practices. The letter of the law focuses directly on the alteration or removing of a federalized emissions device, they are under no requirement to restore one brought to them that's already altered.

For example, a much lighter scenario, if you take your car to a shop for whatever, say a tire rotation, and while it's in the air the mechanic looks it over for other wear items to replace to sell you on fixing or just preventative maintence, and finds that your rubber evap hoses are completely rotted out - these in terms of the letter of the law are equal to catalytic converters, since the are part of an emissions system - all they can do is inform you and ask if you'd like them to fix it or not, not refuse the tire rotation until you agree. They're not liable to what happens to the car outside their business, so whether you tell them your 3rd cat miraculously fell off somewhere on the highway between you're last meeting or were truthful in that you lopped it off yourself, they aren't obligated to repair it to federal spec.

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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-18-2016, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Had everything installed today. It drones like mad around 1500 rpm and not acceptable. Also, I'm not sure if it's how the shop did it but seems like the pipes are too low.....not tucked in like they should be.

I have Thrush welded mufflers and the x-pipe. Wondering if the drone is from x-pipe, mufflers, or both. Seems like the x-pipe. I'm guessing either a dual in/out cat would fix that or maybe a muffler instead? Did some research here and sounds like replacing x-pipe with dual in/out magnaflow resonator would eliminate the drone. A quick Google looks like they're actually dual in/out mufflers not "resonators". I'm not expert but a true resonator would eliminate the sound frequency associated with the droning.

Here are the two magnaflow dual in/out mufflers I found. Are either of these what should replace x-pipe?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/m...FZWCaQodVqcCiQ

Magnaflow 12468 - Unfinished 2.50" inlet/outlet, 5" x 8" x 18" body Dual Inlet / Dual Outlet - Oval Muffler - Performance Mufflers

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Last edited by lurch; 06-18-2016 at 10:22 PM.
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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-18-2016, 11:42 PM
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The mid-mounted will help reduce the drone, but it won't completely kill it. To get rid of it completely, you will need to ditch the welded mufflers for a set of chambered ones, but those typically don't flow as well.

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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 01:38 AM
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I think the drone is coming from the mufflers. I would be tempted to put on a pair of Magnaflow performance mufflers. When I got rid of my Flowmaster 40 and put on the Magnaflow type, the horrible drone was eliminated.

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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 02:09 PM
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Replacing my xpipe with the magnaflow di/do muffler quieted the car down when it had dual magnaflow mufflers in the rear. It's louder than stock but is tolerable. Sounds really deep. But not like a factory tuned exhaust on a 5.0 mustang or anything.

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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 04:25 PM Thread Starter
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I think the drone is coming from the mufflers. I would be tempted to put on a pair of Magnaflow performance mufflers. When I got rid of my Flowmaster 40 and put on the Magnaflow type, the horrible drone was eliminated.
Do you have xpipe still, or did you replace that also to kill the drone?

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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-19-2016, 11:52 PM
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Do you have xpipe still, or did you replace that also to kill the drone?
Look at post 677 in the link for a pic of my magnaflow x-pipe resonator. http://forums.tccoa.com/101-exhaust/...ystems-23.html

I thought the above would tame the drone, but it did not. The problem is the mufflers. If the thrush weld style you have is similar to the flowmaster 40, you are going to have drone. It is simply the nature of a reflective style muffler, The magnaflow performance style absorbs the sound. Since you already have an x-pipe, in my opinion, you will have to change mufflers to either a chambered, (restrictive) style, though I wouldn't because it defeats the purpose of mandrel bent piping, etc, or an sound absorbing style, such as I have done.

Had I known the nature of the beast, I never would have put Flowmasters on to begin with, thus saving myself over $200 in parts and labor.

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Last edited by Tbird Bob; 06-20-2016 at 12:39 AM.
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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
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Look at post 677 in the link for a pic of my magnaflow x-pipe resonator. http://forums.tccoa.com/101-exhaust/...ystems-23.html

I thought the above would tame the drone, but it did not. The problem is the mufflers. If the thrush weld style you have is similar to the flowmaster 40, you are going to have drone. It is simply the nature of a reflective style muffler, The magnaflow performance style absorbs the sound. Since you already have an x-pipe, in my opinion, you will have to change mufflers to either a chambered, (restrictive) style, though I wouldn't because it defeats the purpose of mandrel bent piping, etc, or an sound absorbing style, such as I have done.

Had I known the nature of the beast, I never would have put Flowmasters on to begin with, thus saving myself over $200 in parts and labor.

So which magnaflows did you end up getting specifically. The funny part of all this is that I picked the Thrush welded because some on the board like the sound (and they were inexpensive). That and the shop I had planned on using the guy recommended the Flowmaster 40's which sounds like those should be avoided to.

There should be a sticky post about what mufflers to avoid, etc. to avoid drone....or there is and my ADD made me skip over it.

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post #20 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 06:42 AM
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There is the Muffler Comparison Chart sticky, it does have some information there.

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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 09:19 AM
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So which magnaflows did you end up getting specifically. The funny part of all this is that I picked the Thrush welded because some on the board like the sound (and they were inexpensive). That and the shop I had planned on using the guy recommended the Flowmaster 40's which sounds like those should be avoided to.

There should be a sticky post about what mufflers to avoid, etc. to avoid drone....or there is and my ADD made me skip over it.
I don't know the brand, but this is what I'm talking about. FM1225S FLOWMONSTER Stainless Performance Muffler 2.25" O/C They are an inexpensive copy of Magnaflow performance mufflers.

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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 12:23 PM
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At my shop we put a lot of FlowMonsters on in place of the FlowMasters.. people want to kill the drone from the last build...
FlowMonsters sound good and perform well on the dyno.
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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 05:25 PM
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Go with turbo mufflers.

No drone and good sound.

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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 11:33 PM
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Go with turbo mufflers.

No drone and good sound.
I've not heard a turbo muffler, but I do not doubt the sound is good. However, sound is only part of the whole package of a dual piping system. If one is interested in performance and sound, a turbo muffler, due to the circuitous path the exhaust gas travels, there is a restriction which causes slight loss of horse power and torque in comparison to a muffler wherein the gasses pass straight through.

To illustrate: imagine a garden hose with no restrictions. The water passes through as quickly as conditions allow, i.e., size of pipe, water pressure. Now, form the hose into the shape of a turbo muffler, and see if it takes a bit longer for the water to pass through to the end of the hose.

It is one thing to have a dual exhaust system that sounds good. Which is fine is that is your only goal. As for me, I wanted good sound, and peak performance.

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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 07:30 AM
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a turbo muffler, due to the circuitous path the exhaust gas travels, there is a restriction which causes slight loss of horse power and torque in comparison to a muffler wherein the gasses pass straight through.
What you're describing is not a true turbo muffler. It may be a turbo muffler by name only.

A "true" turbo muffler is a straight thru design, as reducing backpressure to as close to zero as possible in a turbo car is the ultimate goal.

I believe a true turbo muffler would be too loud for a car that does not have a turbo in the exhaust path, which helps to quiet the exhaust a little. That is why a lot of people use chambered mufflers on V8's.

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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 08:03 AM
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It was an alternative for the drone of some other brands.

Buy what you want.

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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 09:41 AM
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ironically the third part for me is a silencer not a cat so it was a blessing
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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 10:13 AM
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What you're describing is not a true turbo muffler. It may be a turbo muffler by name only.

A "true" turbo muffler is a straight thru design, as reducing backpressure to as close to zero as possible in a turbo car is the ultimate goal.

I believe a true turbo muffler would be too loud for a car that does not have a turbo in the exhaust path, which helps to quiet the exhaust a little. That is why a lot of people use chambered mufflers on V8's.

Al
I haven't seen a "true" turbo. But now I understand what you are talking about. What I said about a turbo muffler having an S-shaped exhaust path, as in the image below is a true statement. What you said about a "true turbo", straight through design is also true. We are just talking about different animals with the same name. Thanks for educating me as I learn more about exhaust systems.

http://www.ehow.com/info_12129199_tu...lers-work.html
"Turbo" mufflers may not be what you think they are; the name itself is somewhat deceptive, being more of a nickname derived from the design's original application than a descriptor of its construction. Call them what you want to -- turbo, glasspack or cherry bomb -- but no matter what they're called, you're talking about a design whose performance and signature sound have made it an enduring presence for longer than many hot-rodders have been alive.

The "Real" Turbo Muffler
Manufacturers can call their mufflers anything they want to -- Turbo, Cherry Bomb, Ultimate Titanium Reverse-Flow Carbuncle -- but the term "turbo muffler" actually hearkens back to the 1962 to 1969 Chevrolet Corsair. Chevy's "unsafe at any speed" sports car had a very unusual drive train layout: rear-engine, rear-drive and a horizontally opposed -- or "boxer" -- six-cylinder engine equipped with a turbocharger. This unusual package made for odd packaging, and Chevy had to engineer a very simple, straight-through muffler to fit into the confines of the Corsair's engine bay. This style of "turbo" -- shorthand for "turbocharged" Corvair -- muffler proved a very popular retrofit with muscle car enthusiasts, who loved it for its compact dimensions and excellent flow.



Turbo mufflers typically use a set of perforated tubes, which often guide the exhaust gasses through the muffler in an S-shaped pattern. Although this design is more restrictive than other styles, the S-design allows the gasses to travel through more tubing for better noise reduction. Ideal for street applications, some turbo-style mufflers also incorporate a sound deadening material, which is packed around the tubes for increased muffling.

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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 02:16 PM
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Yes, I have installed several different aftermarket exhausts on turbo cars, and none of them were called "turbo'.

That's kind of funny, it is okay to install a turbo muffler on an N/A car, but not on a turbo car!

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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 06-22-2016, 01:17 PM
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another alternative is to put a couple resonators in just after the X pipe..
something a lot of the newer performance cars are using is an X inside a muffler .. Dynomax makes one I have used a few times its called an "" Ultra Flo Welded X ""
http://www.dynomax.com/skin/frontend..._ufwx_main.jpg
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