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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 08:42 AM Thread Starter
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Wierd Exhaust on 5.0

Stopped by to visit my buddy who owns a fabrication/exhaust shop, American Iron.

He told me he recently had another bird enthusiast with a 1993 5.0 who asked for a set up my friend thought was a bad idea.

The system installed is a total cat delete. After the headers, in place of the cats, 2 cherry bombs with pipe running to the OEM muffler location, and two more cherry bombs. In spite of misgivings when asked to install it, he said it sounds really good. I forgot to ask what size pipe was used.

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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 11:21 AM
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The extra pair was probably the equivalent of a resonator.

I had Cherry Bombs on 2 old cars I had when I was young. They were already on there when I bought the cars. They sound "okay". My Roadrunner had side exit exhausts, it sounded like a truck.

If you're going to go that old school, might as well get "Thrush", lol! I put those on a few cars back in the day.

Al

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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbird Bob View Post
Stopped by to visit my buddy who owns a fabrication/exhaust shop, American Iron.

He told me he recently had another bird enthusiast with a 1993 5.0 who asked for a set up my friend thought was a bad idea.

The system installed is a total cat delete. After the headers, in place of the cats, 2 cherry bombs with pipe running to the OEM muffler location, and two more cherry bombs. In spite of misgivings when asked to install it, he said it sounds really good. I forgot to ask what size pipe was used.
I'm trying to imagine the system you have described above.
I can understand the idea of putting cherrybombs instead of the cats but does the exhaust merge in any way at "the stock OEM muffler location" (Y pipe, X pipe, or H pipe)?

I can imagine that without any kind of crossover, you are losing out on the exhaust flow acceleration caused by scavanging (an exhaust pulse coming down the driver's side downpipe will use the venturi effect to suck the next pulse of exhaust coming down the passenger's side and vice versa). This could be why your muffler guy thought it was a bad idea.

You did mention cherry bombs in the stock muffler location so it's unclear if these cherry bombs are in series or are parallel to each other.

Cherry Bombs are just simple glasspack mufflers. Thrust, Dynomax, even summit makes them.

I've always thought that the classic V8 sound was a Flowmaster exhaust with Thrust being flowmaster's poor cousin as it uses two chambers and baffles. Summit also makes a cheapie Flowmaster 40 knockoff.

-g

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by S4gunn View Post
I'm trying to imagine the system you have described above.
I can understand the idea of putting cherrybombs instead of the cats but does the exhaust merge in any way at "the stock OEM muffler location" (Y pipe, X pipe, or H pipe)?

I can imagine that without any kind of crossover, you are losing out on the exhaust flow acceleration caused by scavanging (an exhaust pulse coming down the driver's side downpipe will use the venturi effect to suck the next pulse of exhaust coming down the passenger's side and vice versa). This could be why your muffler guy thought it was a bad idea.

You did mention cherry bombs in the stock muffler location so it's unclear if these cherry bombs are in series or are parallel to each other.

Cherry Bombs are just simple glasspack mufflers. Thrust, Dynomax, even summit makes them.

I've always thought that the classic V8 sound was a Flowmaster exhaust with Thrust being flowmaster's poor cousin as it uses two chambers and baffles. Summit also makes a cheapie Flowmaster 40 knockoff.

-g
I'm glad you brought up the question about crossover. I hadn't thought to ask about it, but I soon will. Makes me wonder if the 'Y' pipe was eliminated.

Also forgot to mention he said the 5.0 in the car is high output, and they installed a cold air intake.

I really need to get more details because I didn't think there was a HO option on any 5.0 in the birds.

And wondering about the so called, cold air intake installation.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 05:41 PM
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My 1992 LX had HO on the original intake. I'm not sure which years had this but the HO designation may have come with the E7 heads. Not knowing exhaust pipe sizes used, the HO intake may be the limiter in that setup.


I was loving September with 60 degree temps and warming roads. Seemed like I gained a bunch of power over summer. Now it's cooler and no traction. That's one more reason I love September in my area.

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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 05:42 PM
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 07:12 PM
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I have no idea what's going on here.

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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by T6Rocket View Post
If you're going to go that old school, might as well get "Thrush", lol! I put those on a few cars back in the day.

Al
Funny thing is, I have a bran'new Thrush glass pack to put on my Dakota along with the new Y pipe, intermediate pipe, cat, and tail pipe.

I do like how a Thrush sounds.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-08-2018, 09:22 PM
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I have Thrush glass packs sitting around. Theyll probably go on the SC if I ever feel like making the exhaust legal. Then I have a dual in/out Cherrybomb extreme on my 96 with no previous crossover. I didnt get them for the sound though, I got them because they were cheap and they flow about as well as nothing at all. For all three mufflers I spent $60. You cant beat that.

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Ellie: 1989 Tbird SC, r̶e̶s̶t̶o̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶n̶e̶w̶ ̶d̶a̶i̶l̶y̶. off the deep end
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-09-2018, 03:26 PM
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BTW, whatever you do, don't bother installing the glasspacks in backwards.

Some people suggest this because the "scoops" on the inside which direct some exhaust flow into the glasspack material (for muffling) will slow down airflow. By putting them in backwards, they are basically doing nothing. You might as well have left a straight pipe in there.

-g
PS. the cold air intake solution won't matter. dollars to donuts, the owner swapped in a mushroom/cone filter at the end of the MAF and its sucking engine bay air OR they places the filter in the wheel well so it's now susceptible to hydro lock if he ever drives over water.
Leaving the stock box in place and ditching the resonating chamber in the wheel well area is a good enough solution.

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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-09-2018, 04:44 PM
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I have no idea what's going on here.
Me either lol The OP’s buddy built an exhaust for a car he didn’t like the construction of but likes the sound of and we’re being asked why.

Exhaust sound is super subjective, everyone has their opinions on chambered mufflers, turbo mufflers, h pipes, x pipes straight pipes, placements and pipe lengths. Someone tells me one setup sounds good, I may think sounds anywhere from too raspy to too deep to my ears. I don’t think the more expensive muffler sounds better either, every check writer who decries the use of “rustmasters” after spending $1200 on a Corsa catback is usually letting hype dictate their opinions, not actually doing their own homework and forming an independent opinion

IMO If you’re a tone chaser, watch videos with good sound quality to get an idea of what you want and be prepared to spend money on multiple different mufflers and resonators until you get it perfect for your tastes.
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-09-2018, 06:08 PM
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IMO If you’re a tone chaser, watch videos with good sound quality to get an idea of what you want and be prepared to spend money on multiple different mufflers and resonators until you get it perfect for your tastes.
I'll add, make a list, start with the cheapest and clamp them in place, run them for a few thousand miles.

Go to the next one, lather, rinse, repeat, until you're happy.

RwP

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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-09-2018, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Just because I'm curious, I'd like to talk to the owner of the car to find out his line of thinking. It was mentioned here the reason for the two cherry bombs per side was the first in line served as a resonator.

As far as removing the resonating chamber in the factory air intake system, what's to be gained by it?

When it comes to sound, my favorite will always be a flat head V8 with glass packs.
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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-09-2018, 09:52 PM
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I put on dual 2.5" pipes with an x pipe and some cheap ass no noame mufflers, and it sounds great; bubbly at low rpm, and like an angry bunch of hornets at about 5k.

2.25" are not Nearly as loud, with exactly the same setup.

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-10-2018, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tbird Bob View Post
Just because I'm curious, I'd like to talk to the owner of the car to find out his line of thinking. It was mentioned here the reason for the two cherry bombs per side was the first in line served as a resonator.

As far as removing the resonating chamber in the factory air intake system, what's to be gained by it?

When it comes to sound, my favorite will always be a flat head V8 with glass packs.
Not sure why the owner felt a resonater was necessary unless he was trying to convince someone he had "cats" when he doesn't. A mandrel bent tube is cheaper.

I second the youtube recommendation. Listen, find something you like, test it.

It really doesn't matter if the resonater on the intake is there. I guess it'll be a little louder. I did it to save weight (because racecar) and because I know I'll never have to drive the car into a potential hydrolocking situation (the racetrack will be shut down well before water pools that deeply). I do recall when I raised the mounting of the intake box so there was a gap beween the hole in the fender and the box (back when i had a V6 and was experimenting with a splitport intake -- I had to do this for fitment), the giant sucking sound the intake made was hilarious. My teammate told me "congratulations Gunn. You made our crappy domestic V6 sound like a Honda with a CAI".

Pic of my exhaust laid out
https://forums.tccoa.com/101-exhaust...my-review.html

Here's what my exhaust sounds like
One cherrybomb only

Cherrybomb+Flowmaster 40
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-10-2018, 02:40 PM
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I noticed long ago, that if you're driving onto a deep water situation, you can open the top of the airbox, pull it out the hood, and close the hood down on it.

Then you can very Slowly drive thru water up to the hood, if you're incredibly lucky.

It won't like it, and I've not tested it, but If I HAD to cross water to get someone to a hospital, The car is secondary, as much as I love them.

The Plugwires have to be ok, coilpacks ok, And several other things can fail. But Emergencies make you do shit you wouldn't do...

You want to put it back before you go over ~10mph, our hood makes a nice sail, I've heard.

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-10-2018, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Here's the straight skinny. The customer, about my age, 75, has always had glass packs on his vehicles. He loves them.
He ordered some kind of prefabbed, mandrel bent system, and brought it into my friend's shop. Well, as Murphy's Law would have it, the tubing wasn't correct, and my friend had to add some pieces at the shop.

The entire OEM system from headers to mufflers were removed, and replaced with tubing, no H or X pipe, as the customer said, "I'm old school, and I want true dual exhaust"; and the cherry bombs in the stock position. It turned out to be too loud. Therefore, the customer had my friend install two more cherry bombs, one per side, approximately under the console. Evidently it worked perfectly to the customer's satisfaction.

And, as I expected, the so called cold air intake the customer had installed is your typical under the hood cone style.

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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-10-2018, 10:31 PM
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That's the worst reason I've ever heard for a total rig like that.

That's stupid, to put a $50 muffler in place of a $10 piece of pipe.

BUT: It's his money, He can do whatever the fuck he wants.

You lose all the maybe 15hp advantage to doing a dual exhaust, but WTF, it' s "Merica!!!"

I ceased expecting smart people years ago.

"I'm old school, and I want true dual exhaust"; is ridiculous, as "Scavenging" was a thing in the 30's.

Dumbass has no age limits.

There's no excuse for not understanding flow these days, unless you don't trust the internet, lol. Or books, those go even further back.



The mandrel bent systems I bought fit perfectly; again, Dumbass. 2 cars so far, two sizes. WTF.

This isn't exactly a hidden forum, and theexhaust mods show up as the first thing on google.

EDIT: I missed the "HOT air intake" Dumbass #3.

I bet that runs GREAT!

He dropped at least 20 hp; and since you didn't say 'tune', there's DA#4.

I'd blame the education system, if he weren't older than my dead mom.

You should be helping him, not telling us how bad he's fucking up.

Yes, I am an asshole; you could have avoided that by not mentioning the age, as if that helps; YOU should know better.

Yes, he's happy got what he want's, but everyone who talks to him, or reads this will know better.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
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Last edited by Grog6; 10-10-2018 at 10:46 PM.
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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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That's the worst reason I've ever heard for a total rig like that.

That's stupid, to put a $50 muffler in place of a $10 piece of pipe.

BUT: It's his money, He can do whatever the fuck he wants.

You lose all the maybe 15hp advantage to doing a dual exhaust, but WTF, it' s "Merica!!!"

I ceased expecting smart people years ago.

"I'm old school, and I want true dual exhaust"; is ridiculous, as "Scavenging" was a thing in the 30's.

Dumbass has no age limits.

There's no excuse for not understanding flow these days, unless you don't trust the internet, lol. Or books, those go even further back.



The mandrel bent systems I bought fit perfectly; again, Dumbass. 2 cars so far, two sizes. WTF.

This isn't exactly a hidden forum, and theexhaust mods show up as the first thing on google.

EDIT: I missed the "HOT air intake" Dumbass #3.

I bet that runs GREAT!

He dropped at least 20 hp; and since you didn't say 'tune', there's DA#4.

I'd blame the education system, if he weren't older than my dead mom.

You should be helping him, not telling us how bad he's fucking up.

Yes, I am an asshole; you could have avoided that by not mentioning the age, as if that helps; YOU should know better.


Yes, he's happy got what he want's, but everyone who talks to him, or reads this will know better
.
What's the matter, did a cat piss on your driver seat?

I understand exhausts systems, but I wasn't there at the muffler shop looking over from a perch and giving directions on how to screw up a system. I merely started this thread because I thought it would be interesting to some folks.

As far as the owner of the car, he may not use a computer, and probably would never come here to ask questions just to be insulted by you.

Have a nice day.

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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 04:36 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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What's the matter, did a cat piss on your driver seat?

I understand exhausts systems, but I wasn't there at the muffler shop looking over from a perch and giving directions on how to screw up a system. I merely started this thread because I thought it would be interesting to some folks.

As far as the owner of the car, he may not use a computer, and probably would never come here to ask questions just to be insulted by you.

Have a nice day.
I'll agree that I overreacted, but something you said hacked me off.

I should have stopped here:

You should be helping him, not telling us how bad he's fucking up.

I'll apologize for the rest; we all go off sometimes.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 07:22 PM Thread Starter
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I'll agree that I overreacted, but something you said hacked me off.

I should have stopped here:

You should be helping him, not telling us how bad he's fucking up.

I'll apologize for the rest; we all go off sometimes.
Sorry for not making it understandable. I can't apologize to a person I've never met, don't know, don't care who he is or the color of his car.
You are the one who criticized the air intake, I merely mentioned it because it may be of interest to someone on the forum. As for me, I know the downside of under hood hot air intake.

Again, how many cars run two cherry bombs per side? It's unusual, don't you think? However, because cherry bombs, glass packs, and magnaflow performance style mufflers absorb the gasses and sound, the second cherry bomb per side changed the tone too a note more suitable to the owner.

Do me a favor and suggest the proper design for Mr. X. I'll deliver it to the installer for his edification.

He looked quite surprised when I told him I thought my stock 1997 4.6 was faster. We'll never know. At least he deleted the CATS, Y Pipe and restrictive mufflers. Those cherry bombs must sound cool, and I'd guess they don't drone like the reflective style mufflers such as flow master 40's.

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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 08:06 PM
No, Mr. Lemmywinks, No!!!

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My exhaust guy pointed out that if you extend the tips outside the back, a lot of Drone is gone.


I'm an ass sometimes; just argue, don't get pissed. I won't.

Sorry again.

Red '96 Cougar XR-7 240k mi. '02 4R70W, PST DS : '03 PI engine, 04 maf, 24lb injectors, 2.5" exhaust, '02 4r70w + Jmod, DirtyD0g TC + cooler + 3/8" lines, 255 walbro fp. Alpine system.
Black '96 Cougar XR-7 (Lazarus) 210k mi PI Intake, '02 4R70W, Jmod, PST DS, GrogTune, Konis, Mark LCA+Poly, racecougar Custom Engine Chain, and JL and racecougar Bracing.
Black '97 Tbird Limited Edition, '02 4R70W, 255 walbro, PST DS, PBR Brakes&SS lines, Toicko Blues & Springs, GrogTune.


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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old 10-11-2018, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 397
Grog, this Bud's for you.

Do you realize you were just passed by a NASCAR? I didn't think so.
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