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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006, 06:43 AM Thread Starter
 
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No Mufflers

First of all, where I live there is no emission testing.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has done this before. I had an electric saw and decided to start cutting on my exhaust one day. Having a V8 and no one being able to tell without seeing the badging/under the hood kind of sucked. I cut a slit behind each muffler and just cranked it up to test it out (check the sound). Ahh, sounding much better already. Nice purr at idle, and sounds pretty sweet up until 3000RPM, where it gets pretty quite again (I guess the exhaust is moving too fast by then and just bypassing those little slits in the pipes).

Well, at that time, someone at my house was saying that he thought it would sound like **** if I went ahead and cut the mufflers off. In fear of sounding like an 80's/early 90's model lumina that you hear drive by with exhaust problems (BWWWAAAAAA), I stopped there.

It's been killing me since then to know what one sounds like with the mufflers cut off. I was just going to make two cuts in each pipe to leave a 3 or 4 inch gap.

Also, Either that, or cut the single pipe that branches into 2 for the mufflers, just didn't know which would sound better. Anyone have any experience with 'homemade exhaust mods' here? I KNOW you all do. My uncle has a black crown vic with flames and sweet 16" or 17" chrome wheels (nothing ricey whatsoever) with custom true duals on it (4.6 V8). Ours don't sound anything alike. You know how most mustangs have that higher pitched sound to them? His is very low sounding throughout the RPM.

But, back to the point, does anyone have any advice or know what it will sound like? Or where to make the best 'cut'?
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006, 07:01 AM
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there is no way i will sound like the 3.1 chevy engine thats too distinct for that engine you can hear them a mile away. and i've heard people say the 4.6 sounds like a swarm of angy bees. there is a 4.6 cat running around my town with no mufflers and i can't really hear him over mine but it don't sound too bad

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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
 
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Well, considering that I think most ricers with hondas sound like angry bees, I don't know if you mean that it sounds good or bad.

Considering that it would be would be almost irreversible, I'm worried about doing it. By saying that it doesn't sound too bad, does it sound pretty good? I've really been wanting to do this, but just have that 'fear' in my head that it will sound like crap. I'm sure it wouldn't be TOO loud until I gutted those first two pre-cats, then maybe the third one.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006, 08:23 AM
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don't gut the cats that will shoot you in the foot as it will choke you system. as far as cutting the mufflers off if you don't like it you have a reason to get it done right. you can always weld the muffs back on. my 5.0 is straight piped with no resinator sounds nice but it's a 5.0 so try it. or you could by some borlas or a mid mount muffler

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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
 
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As much as I would love to dump money into my car, I already have done it to this car.

1991 Dodge Stealth R/T 3.0 DOHC 24-Valve Twin Turbo Pearl White
TD04-15G Turbos, 550cc injectors, 255lph Walbro fuel pump (hotwired), Manual Boost Controller, Intake, Custom True Dual Exhaust (No Mufflers/No Cats), Ross 8.5:1 Forged Pistons, Apexi S-AFC, Intrax Springs, Drilled and Slotted Rotors

But, I know, I still want to dump money into my thunderbird. I'm just a poor college student now, majoring in computer networking, and with my classes requiring $600 worth of books, $100 worth of freaking USB drives (need a total of 1GB), and gas money going there and back home every day, it's hard enough to stay in school. This computer networking better pay off though.

So, that's pretty much why I was wondering about the free mod of just cutting the mufflers off. If it sounds like ****, I will probably be stuck with it for a year, lol.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006, 12:03 PM
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I was without mufflers for 4 years on my car (sold it like that, guy still has it like that).

You SHOULD have pipes bent up to get the exhaust out from under the car as it resonates REALLY bad if it's dumped just before the mufflers.

I always thought it sounded like a riced out porsche. Not horribly loud, pretty mellow.. some people liked it, some people didn't, I didn't mind it and it served the purpose I wanted (I like to hear my vehicles, not question if they're actually running or not).

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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006, 12:13 PM
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my friends got a 91 5.0 and his exaust is all stock minus the two mufflers...... it sounds pretty sweet.... he needs to finish running them out though (they're dumping right after the rear diff.) go to the video section and check out the red thunderbird exaust/burnout........(p.s. not the black lx, that's mine and i know it sounds like shyt........i'm cutting the glasspacks off soon)

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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006, 12:32 PM
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Just remove the exhaust pipe at the connection just behind the trannsmission cross member (2 bolt exhaust clamp) and let it idle or rev it a little to see what it sounds like. Or, you could do this then remove the entire muffler assembly (3 hangers) and drive it around and see if it is what you like. This won't sound as good as running straight pipes, but it will give you an idea of what the motor would sound like without the mufflers.

Currently In the Short Bus Garage:
2 - '94 T-bird LX's 4.6L (one with 300,000+ miles and one with 200,000+ miles)
1 - '97 Mark VIII LSC - INTECH V8 (120,000+ miles)
1 - '97 F150 XLT 4x4 Flareside, 4.6L (130,000+ miles) - Currently being dismantled and rebuilt with upgrades!
1 - '00 Mustang GT (likes to accelerate with the brake on!), 4.6L (60,000+ miles - only comes out when I need to get somewhere fast.)

oh yeah, and they all have 4R70W's
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-30-2006, 04:18 PM
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I have a 93 5.0 HO that I just did this to, you really have to get the exhaust out from under the back, because it will resonate between about 1300 RPM and 2300, and it's annoying as hell. I love the sound with it run out the back now though, spent about $30 getting the stuff from Autozone to send the pipes out each side. I still have the 3rd cat and middle resonator in place. But it has a nice mean growl to it.

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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 10:11 AM
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I am currently running mine without mufflers, and I like it. It's been that way almost a year now. Of course I will run true dual eventually, when money allows. I just made a cut right before the mufflers, then got some 18 inch sections of straight pipe and clamped them on so the pipe goes all the way back. I had to heat them and bend them a bit to make them even, but it works for now.

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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 08-31-2006, 11:17 AM
 
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i cut the mufflers off my car and then put some turndowns on it to get rid of alot of the drone. I think it sounds prety good for hacking of the mufflers. Iv been running it for prally 6 months atleast.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 10:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wether
Just remove the exhaust pipe at the connection just behind the trannsmission cross member (2 bolt exhaust clamp) and let it idle or rev it a little to see what it sounds like. Or, you could do this then remove the entire muffler assembly (3 hangers) and drive it around and see if it is what you like. This won't sound as good as running straight pipes, but it will give you an idea of what the motor would sound like without the mufflers.
I agree much easyer then cutting your pipes. I did this for a while but was just to loud. I'm thinking about putting in some glass packs. But this takes less then a hour, and you can always put it back in.
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 11:18 AM
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i run without mufflers and i like it better then stock
i also got my 3rd cat gutted which is a little better as well

but it takes some time to get used to. at first it sounds crappy inside the car since its louder but you get used to it and start to like it. i did anyways :P
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 12:30 PM
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wouldnt this make

your car feel like it has less torque?
dont you need some back pressure?

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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 12:54 PM
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I thought back pressure was one way these modular motors improved torque while lowering emissions, but that may just be an urban legend . I just like the way my stock Mustang GT sounds with the factory dual exhaust. . . . .Although, the exaust was engineered to sound like this in the car to add to the "Muscle Car" mystique.

Currently In the Short Bus Garage:
2 - '94 T-bird LX's 4.6L (one with 300,000+ miles and one with 200,000+ miles)
1 - '97 Mark VIII LSC - INTECH V8 (120,000+ miles)
1 - '97 F150 XLT 4x4 Flareside, 4.6L (130,000+ miles) - Currently being dismantled and rebuilt with upgrades!
1 - '00 Mustang GT (likes to accelerate with the brake on!), 4.6L (60,000+ miles - only comes out when I need to get somewhere fast.)

oh yeah, and they all have 4R70W's
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 01:08 PM
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The first 2 cats provide enough backpressure for the system.

Backpressure has nothing to do with emissions (in regards to catalytic converter function).

These cars need backpressure for augmented low-end torque and proper function of the EGR system.

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Last edited by master486; 09-01-2006 at 01:43 PM.
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 01:58 PM
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what master486 said
you will feel no difference other then sound if removing mufflers
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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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You should at least gain 5 horsepower with no mufflers, though. 3 - 5 would be safe to say, IMO.
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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-01-2006, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcemanV8
You should at least gain 5 horsepower with no mufflers, though. 3 - 5 would be safe to say, IMO.
Doubtful. The mufflers aren't a significant source of backpressure. You'd be much more likely to gain 6-10 horsepower by changing to high-flow cats and a good cat-back, but probably less than 2 HP from just cutting the mufflers off. Heck you could probably gain 1 or 2 just by straightening out the angle that the downpipes make to the cats.

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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-03-2006, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Ok, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take the exhaust apart after the first 2 cats, where they come to the straight pipe into the third cat. I'm going to take the third cat off and just let the exhaust come out there (midways on the car). It's coming from 2 pipes into 1, so I'm wondering how it's going to sound. If I don't like it, I'm going to go ahead and gut the cat and put it back on.

I'm sure some of you have tried this, seeing as that it is completely irreversible. I was all up under my car today, changing the oil and the transmission fluid with some Mecron V. No more torque converter shudder!!! Finally can run 4th gear @ 1100RPM and all around in there. Decided tomorrow I will experiment with the exhaust and also take the air box silencer/hose off. Either way, my car will sound different, lol.

So, anyone knows what it sounds like? Gonna be too loud? Too crappy? I'll let you guys know anyways, but would like to hear some experiences on anything to do with free exhaust mods.
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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-03-2006, 10:19 PM
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Backpressure is the enemy! No engine needs it. But however for Iceman, just experiment. At least by pulling thewhole rear section off you can get a good idea. Another thing you can do is pull all that off and have a single pipe run out to the rear, into a crossflow muffler similar to a Z28. Theres lots of video clips on here of different setups. Just play around till you find one you like and its affordable.

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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-04-2006, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
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Backpressure is the enemy! No engine needs it.
Wrong! The EGR system is a DPFE type, meaning differential pressure feedback EGR. It uses a backpressure transducer to monitor the flow of EGR. Without a substantial enough amount of backpressure, this system won't function properly because it won't be able to properly detect minute changes in exhaust backpressure due to the EGR valve opening and closing.

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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-04-2006, 03:26 AM
 
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i have a 1994 LX 4.6

i cut off the mufflers and it sounded pretty badass

it sound sgood at low rpm, idle, revving...but up in the higher RPM's it drones out

but dont just cut off the mufflers and leave the exhaust dumped right there- it drones way too bad inside. go to your auto parts store and buy two pieces of straight exhaust pipe and two exhaust clamps, and just clamp them right up- and for less then 10 bucks you got ur exhaust pipes ot let the gases out behind the car. sounds so sweet


i can make a sound clip if you need
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-04-2006, 07:33 AM Thread Starter
 
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If you feel like making a clip, that'd be fine with me. I'll download it and listen to it. It would help out in this process, lol.
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-05-2006, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by master486
Wrong! The EGR system is a DPFE type, meaning differential pressure feedback EGR. It uses a backpressure transducer to monitor the flow of EGR. Without a substantial enough amount of backpressure, this system won't function properly because it won't be able to properly detect minute changes in exhaust backpressure due to the EGR valve opening and closing.
If this was the case, I would have been throwing codes all over the place after I had a 2 1/2 inch true dual exhaust custom built on my 94 thunderbird.

NOt wrong. You dont want resistence to flow. You want exhaust velocity to help scavenge the gas from the cylinders. Backpressure just cause the engine to wheeze.

"Piss poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-05-2006, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
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If this was the case, I would have been throwing codes all over the place after I had a 2 1/2 inch true dual exhaust custom built on my 94 thunderbird.

NOt wrong. You dont want resistence to flow. You want exhaust velocity to help scavenge the gas from the cylinders. Backpressure just cause the engine to wheeze.
Just curious do you have an X-pipe or any kind of cross over?

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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-05-2006, 10:28 AM
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I run 2.25'' true duals with mid-mount muffler (x-pipe muffler) and Gutted my Cats. I have not thrown any codes... nor felt any huge loss of low end. Im sure I probably dropped a few lbs. of torque... but gained HP as well. With a high stall converter you wont notice a loss of torque. I still burnem off from take-off .

Sold my Cougar . But I am in the market for another MN12 project!
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-05-2006, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by master486
Just curious do you have an X-pipe or any kind of cross over?
Everything was cut right at the cats, so I had an H crossover with mandrel bent 2 1/2 inch pipe all the way back to dual 2 chambers with short slash cut tips coming straight out the back pretty much where the stock mufflers sat. I didnt have the cats gutted, just the 3rd cat removed.

"Piss poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part.
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-05-2006, 10:53 AM
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Any kind of cross-over (X, H, Y) will give the necessary backpressure for EGR function. Now just say you would have had no cats and just a downpipe from the manifold that exits right under the car. That would most definitely cripple the EGR system.

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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 09-05-2006, 12:02 PM
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I have a '92 3.8. Does mine have the DPFE?
I'm getting a code (can't remember which one) that says I have insufficient EGR voltage.

I looked at the EGR but don't see any electrical connections. There is a gray plastic piece with vacuum lines that right by the EGR though.
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