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post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 06:39 PM Thread Starter
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adding a turbo to a SC

i have been looking into ways to add a turbo to one of my sc's. how do you guys and galls think would be the best way. turbo feeding the blower, blower feeding the turbo, or in a parell ( both feeding the intack). love the low end of the blower but want the high end of the turbo. just looking for ideas on the best way to make this work for the best all around power.
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post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by nwnsc View Post
i have been looking into ways to add a turbo to one of my sc's. how do you guys and galls think would be the best way. turbo feeding the blower, blower feeding the turbo, or in a parell ( both feeding the intack). love the low end of the blower but want the high end of the turbo. just looking for ideas on the best way to make this work for the best all around power.
blower feedind the turbo.. you dont want all that hot air going back into the blower if you do it the other way...

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Thou shalt pullest out thy pin and count to 3. no more, no less. 4 thou shall not count. nor shall thou count to 2, unless then proceeding to 3. 5 is right out! once thou counts to 3. being the third number being reached, then thou lobbest thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, towards thy foe, who be nort in my sight, dare snuff it...
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post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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it would have to go through the intercooler first befor it fed the blower. then be cool agen after. i think the same the other way too to heep thing cool
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post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 07:11 PM
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it would have to go through the intercooler first befor it fed the blower. then be cool agen after. i think the same the other way too to heep thing cool
aye.. i guess your right..sorry for the useless post.. my brains not working right today..(too much $#!+ going on). ill shut up before i get kicked in the face by a mod..

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Thou shalt pullest out thy pin and count to 3. no more, no less. 4 thou shall not count. nor shall thou count to 2, unless then proceeding to 3. 5 is right out! once thou counts to 3. being the third number being reached, then thou lobbest thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, towards thy foe, who be nort in my sight, dare snuff it...
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post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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aye.. i guess your right..sorry for the useless post.. my brains not working right today..(too much $#!+ going on). ill shut up before i get kicked in the face by a mod..
it's cool. just trying to figer this out before i start making the parts.
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post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 07:23 PM
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have the turbo feed the blower.. seems like it would get the air there faster..

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Originally Posted by Brother Maynard
Thou shalt pullest out thy pin and count to 3. no more, no less. 4 thou shall not count. nor shall thou count to 2, unless then proceeding to 3. 5 is right out! once thou counts to 3. being the third number being reached, then thou lobbest thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, towards thy foe, who be nort in my sight, dare snuff it...
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post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 07:34 PM Thread Starter
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have the turbo feed the blower.. seems like it would get the air there faster..
what im worried about that is when the turbo realy comes on the blower won't keep up. that why i was thinking about the parell setup. let both blow into the intercooler.
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post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by nwnsc View Post
what im worried about that is when the turbo realy comes on the blower won't keep up. that why i was thinking about the parell setup. let both blow into the intercooler.
bigger pulley and a little more cowbell! lmao. if you did put a bigger pulley on it wouldnt that help?. and if you got them both to work together instead of one feeding the other (at least i think thats what you mean.. again i could be wrong) how would you get them both to feed into the intake?

**edit** i read that wrong... so your saying let them both pull air thru the i/c and let the blower push it all in?

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Originally Posted by Brother Maynard
Thou shalt pullest out thy pin and count to 3. no more, no less. 4 thou shall not count. nor shall thou count to 2, unless then proceeding to 3. 5 is right out! once thou counts to 3. being the third number being reached, then thou lobbest thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, towards thy foe, who be nort in my sight, dare snuff it...
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post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 08:07 PM Thread Starter
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2 inlets on the intercooler 1 out to the intake manfold.
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post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 08:23 PM
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Why don't you just get a better blower?

Besides too much boost without bulletproofing your motor = FAIL

And if you have a true Anniversary SC why would you want to destroy it?

Is this for real or are you just trying to start crap?

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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 09:29 PM
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i would just turbo it, turbo would put less stress on the motor.
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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-21-2008, 09:43 PM
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Turbo wouldn't decrease stress on the motor that much, but it would free up the HP needed to spin the Eaton.

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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 08:25 AM
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removing the blower will ease the stress off of the harmonic balancer and crank. If the turbo is sized correctly you woulnt need the blower. Theres a few sc turbo builds going on right now. if you twin turbo the car you could size the turbos for optimum performance yet the cost and fabrication goes up. are you looking for a full out build or a budget kit?

As for the twin charging idea it gets expensive not to mention you will have to build on stout motor to handle the potential as when you you twin charge you dont add boost you multipy boost. And if you wanted to go that way you could still just ditch the blower for a compound turbo setup (turbo feeding the other turbo)

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-22-2008, 08:00 PM Thread Starter
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i now the sc block will hold 25 psi and usely good for around 450 hp. i have a motor i bulding with ported heads. and want something a little difrent. makeing the parts is not so big of a deal. have seral friends that build turbo kits and i get a lot s*** for the blower. so i was thinking adding or just going turbo one one of the SC's. probly build it on the 35th or i could do the 90 auto but i would have to trow the extra 5 speed in there as i don't think the AOD will take the power. i seam to blow them up. if i pop a motor i have a few spares i keep around. i want to push 25 psi and dont want to spend the 1500 for the mpx and od pulles. probly need to just go turbo but i like the idea a having the blower too. i can make most of the parts and trade paint work for most of the turbo stuff need. i just have to come up with the idea i want and lay it out. the SC is just feeling slow compaired to the turboed cars.
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 12:00 AM
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I know what your talking about doing. I would have the supercharger feed the turbo, heres why. If you hooked them up to where they fed in parallel (each having their own piping into the intercooler.) The eaton build boost almost instantly off the line where the turbo has to spool. You would have a problem with the supercharger stalling the turbo and the turbo would never spool.

If you hooked the supercharger to feed the turbo, you could run a massive turbo (holset comes to mind) and see almost instant boost because the pressure from the sc makes the turbo want to spool. This spools it from the hot AND cold sides. The sc spinning the turbo so quickly at first would also create a vacuume inside the exhaust manifolds sucking the exhaust out helping the engine rev even faster.

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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 02:52 AM Thread Starter
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I know what your talking about doing. I would have the supercharger feed the turbo, heres why. If you hooked them up to where they fed in parallel (each having their own piping into the intercooler.) The eaton build boost almost instantly off the line where the turbo has to spool. You would have a problem with the supercharger stalling the turbo and the turbo would never spool.

If you hooked the supercharger to feed the turbo, you could run a massive turbo (holset comes to mind) and see almost instant boost because the pressure from the sc makes the turbo want to spool. This spools it from the hot AND cold sides. The sc spinning the turbo so quickly at first would also create a vacuume inside the exhaust manifolds sucking the exhaust out helping the engine rev even faster.
will the blower keep up when the turbo realy starts spooling up? i will be runing a 95 case with 10% pully
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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobohuey View Post
I know what your talking about doing. I would have the supercharger feed the turbo, heres why. If you hooked them up to where they fed in parallel (each having their own piping into the intercooler.) The eaton build boost almost instantly off the line where the turbo has to spool. You would have a problem with the supercharger stalling the turbo and the turbo would never spool.

If you hooked the supercharger to feed the turbo, you could run a massive turbo (holset comes to mind) and see almost instant boost because the pressure from the sc makes the turbo want to spool. This spools it from the hot AND cold sides. The sc spinning the turbo so quickly at first would also create a vacuume inside the exhaust manifolds sucking the exhaust out helping the engine rev even faster.
sorry but you do NOT want to do that. The blower is fixed to engine speed the turbo free spins. even with the wastegate pinned open the blower will over speed the turbo resulting in blowing up the turbo like a grenade. There also will be no vaccum created by the turbine. There will be back pressure due to the quick build up of pressure due to the blower.

You will have to feed the blower with the turbo. its called twin charging. big rigs back in the 60s used twin charging on diesel motors they would feed the blower with the turbo. there is a GM 3.8 with a T4 feeding a M112 over on theturbo forums. its a nice setup real pretty and runs great.


The blower will still spool the turbo quicker (by sucking air thru the turbo faster and high exhaust volume at low rpms due to the blower will help a big turbo spool up quick. You want the turbo before the blower. With the sc setup theres a few good things going on. first it has a eaton with a fmic from factory. the turbo can feed the blower then have a bypass valve that will open around say 8psi to bypass the blower(by now the turbo is spooled and can take over the blower will just be in the way and be ineffecient. The turbo will now act as one and rely on the wastegate before the turbine to keep it from over boosting. Bov will also go after the turbo before the throttle. Then replace the intercooler with a morte efecient one air to air or air to water.

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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 06:10 AM
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Reading this thread reminded me of an article I recently read in muscle mustangs and fast fords. It is not a T-Bird but it is the same principle I guess.

http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...bra/index.html

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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 07:18 PM
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sorry but you do NOT want to do that. The blower is fixed to engine speed the turbo free spins. even with the wastegate pinned open the blower will over speed the turbo resulting in blowing up the turbo like a grenade. There also will be no vaccum created by the turbine. There will be back pressure due to the quick build up of pressure due to the blower.

You will have to feed the blower with the turbo. its called twin charging. big rigs back in the 60s used twin charging on diesel motors they would feed the blower with the turbo. there is a GM 3.8 with a T4 feeding a M112 over on theturbo forums. its a nice setup real pretty and runs great.


The blower will still spool the turbo quicker (by sucking air thru the turbo faster and high exhaust volume at low rpms due to the blower will help a big turbo spool up quick. You want the turbo before the blower. With the sc setup theres a few good things going on. first it has a eaton with a fmic from factory. the turbo can feed the blower then have a bypass valve that will open around say 8psi to bypass the blower(by now the turbo is spooled and can take over the blower will just be in the way and be ineffecient. The turbo will now act as one and rely on the wastegate before the turbine to keep it from over boosting. Bov will also go after the turbo before the throttle. Then replace the intercooler with a morte efecient one air to air or air to water.
It wont overspin the turbo if the turbo is sized larger then what the sc is pushing. The stock m90 on the 3.8 runs at what 10psi? If hes looking at running 25 (which a holset will easily support and which flows more then a m90 can) then there is no chance of over spinning the turbo. There was a guy that did this exact setup on turboford with a Turbocoupe backed by a c-4. On his initial run it did a 40 to 50 foot long burnout, and that was just mashing the gas.

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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-23-2008, 07:37 PM
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either way but you still woulnt have as much controll over the turbo like that. it would be best off feeding the blower with a bypass set to 8-10psi so the turbo can take over at higher revs. most twin charge setups feed the blower

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post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-24-2008, 05:10 PM Thread Starter
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after alot of research i going to feed the blower. i using a gm 5.6 deisal turbo from my freind. to control psi i will put the boost controler on the return plem to keep psi steady and comansate for the VE loss of the blower. should come up to pressure at about 1500-2000 rpms and stay there all the way to redline now the fun part pluming every thing! and with this set up i can make adjustment by reseting the wastegate boost controler and pullys on the blower. i think a stock pully to start with is a better idea to help keep the heat down as it will be high boost for a gas motor. this set up will be capable of 40+ psi if a realy want to blow some thing up. at 24 psi it will think it is a 696ci V6 motor (232ci at 3 time atsmopheric pressure or 24psi=696ci) definly going to need 60# injectors and one hell of a tune! oh and going to use bypass valve insted of BOV so i have no psssssss ricer sound. just lots of wine from the blower and turbo i will keep all of you updated on my progress
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post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-24-2008, 05:58 PM
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after alot of research i going to feed the blower. i using a gm 5.6 deisal turbo from my freind. to control psi i will put the boost controler on the return plem to keep psi steady and comansate for the VE loss of the blower. should come up to pressure at about 1500-2000 rpms and stay there all the way to redline now the fun part pluming every thing! and with this set up i can make adjustment by reseting the wastegate boost controler and pullys on the blower. i think a stock pully to start with is a better idea to help keep the heat down as it will be high boost for a gas motor. this set up will be capable of 40+ psi if a realy want to blow some thing up. at 24 psi it will think it is a 696ci V6 motor (232ci at 3 time atsmopheric pressure or 24psi=696ci) definly going to need 60# injectors and one hell of a tune! oh and going to use bypass valve insted of BOV so i have no psssssss ricer sound. just lots of wine from the blower and turbo i will keep all of you updated on my progress
will that work ok
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post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-24-2008, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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are you talling about the deisal turbo working ok? this turbo has been put on every thing from a 2.3 I4 to 400 small block and has performed well. it should spool at about 2000 rpms and keep a constant 25psi after the blower. and will pull like a Jhon Dear tracter on meth all the up to red line at 6000 rpm
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post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-24-2008, 09:06 PM
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are you talling about the deisal turbo working ok? this turbo has been put on every thing from a 2.3 I4 to 400 small block and has performed well. it should spool at about 2000 rpms and keep a constant 25psi after the blower. and will pull like a Jhon Dear tracter on meth all the up to red line at 6000 rpm
yeah i was wondering if it was going to be effecient all the way to redline
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post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-24-2008, 09:41 PM Thread Starter
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when this turbo was on a 4.3 gm v6 it made 35+ psi. so with the blower too i should beable to keep 40+ psi coustantly. with it set at 25 psi it should just be walking along easly.
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post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-24-2008, 09:42 PM
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when this turbo was on a 4.3 gm v6 it made 35+ psi. so with the blower too i should beable to keep 40+ psi coustantly. with it set at 25 psi it should just be walking along easly.
walking or screaming???

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Thou shalt pullest out thy pin and count to 3. no more, no less. 4 thou shall not count. nor shall thou count to 2, unless then proceeding to 3. 5 is right out! once thou counts to 3. being the third number being reached, then thou lobbest thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, towards thy foe, who be nort in my sight, dare snuff it...
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post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-24-2008, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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i'll be the one screaming trying to hold on. lol
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post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-24-2008, 09:54 PM
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i'll be the one screaming trying to hold on. lol
so if im ever in your area and see an MN12 screaming up behind me ill know its you screaming like a little girl instead of the blower ?

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Thou shalt pullest out thy pin and count to 3. no more, no less. 4 thou shall not count. nor shall thou count to 2, unless then proceeding to 3. 5 is right out! once thou counts to 3. being the third number being reached, then thou lobbest thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch, towards thy foe, who be nort in my sight, dare snuff it...
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post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-25-2008, 04:02 AM
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youll still want a bypass so once the turbo spools it can stand alone. the blower will shorten the spool time. at hih revs if you just keep blowing thru the blower it will be a restricton. also a very good intercooling system will be needed for ths kind of setup. Also you may want to be prepared to go stand alone as the stock ecu with a tune may be obsolete for a setup like this. twin charged cars can be tough to tune blowers respond to engine rpms at fixed rates. turbos respond to load and heat which makes them more unpredictable. ALso if you do just blow thru the blower with no bypass you do not add boost you multiply the pr.

heres from a twn charge thead over at theturboforums.com

For example if you are running a staged setup in which each compressors has a PR of 2 then you will have a total PR of like this:

14.7 PSI absolute (from atmosphere) --> first compressor takes this to 14.7*2 (PR 2)= 29.6 PSI absolute (or 14.7 PSI gage) --> compressor 2 takes this from 29.6 PSI absolute *2 = 59.2 PSI Absolute or 44.1 PSI gage.

heres the twincharged gm 3.8 i was talking of...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyt_9BwDi6Q

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post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 05-25-2008, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Posts: 66
from my research this is a myth about the blower. http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.c...=174690&page=1 it will still multiply pr at high rpms. and im looking for mostly a street car so realy high rpms is not my goal. i want a tq curve of a diesal ( /) with no fall off at 4000 like the blower is doing now
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